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Prospects off to slow/fast starts

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Old
10-08-2004, 12:31 AM
  #126
xander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Now if he went to the WHL and scored 7 goals, than yes we would have reason to concerned.
do you think there's any possibility of Korpikoski coming overr and playing in the CHL next year if he's not getting signifigant time in finland? I know it would be a step down in leagues, but that might be out weighed by the benefits of getting used to th north american game (though he's probably exposed to the closest europeon equivalent in finland) and getting signifigant ice time. It certainly would be nice to get him over here, always scares me leaving players over in europe too long.

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10-08-2004, 12:42 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by xander
do you think there's any possibility of Korpikoski coming overr and playing in the CHL next year if he's not getting signifigant time in finland? I know it would be a step down in leagues, but that might be out weighed by the benefits of getting used to th north american game (though he's probably exposed to the closest europeon equivalent in finland) and getting signifigant ice time. It certainly would be nice to get him over here, always scares me leaving players over in europe too long.
That will never happen. In any case, since he was drafted out of Europe, he can be signed and play in Hartford any time the Rangers choose. Don't know what the situation is regarding his Finnish team and how long they hold his rights, though. Chances are if they had any say they would demand quite a bit from the Rangers.

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10-08-2004, 12:48 AM
  #128
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do you meen that will never happen in regards to him playing in the CHL next year or in North America next year?

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10-08-2004, 01:21 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by xander
do you meen that will never happen in regards to him playing in the CHL next year or in North America next year?
Sorry, I meant he will NEVER play in Juniors ever. But, it's quite unlikely that he will play in North America next year too.
He's in the best place for his development. When he's outgrown it, he'll come here. Assuming there is a league to come here to and that the system isn't such that it makes absolutely no economic sense for him to play in it.

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10-08-2004, 01:46 AM
  #130
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I disagree I guess I think we had many options--could have taken Olesz or Tukonen (since he had chemistry with Korpikoski); could have traded up to get Barker or Ladd; could have traded down to get a number of players (Stafford, Schwarz, Thelen, Nokelainen, etc.) plus an additional 2nd rounder.
But see that is just thing, it comes down to opinion. I'll be honest and I say I wouldn't put Tukonen on the same level. That's not to say there weren't good prospects, just not AS good IMHO.

And it comes down to the Rangers getting who they think is the best player. While you or anyone else might think that those other guys were as good, The Rangers obviously didn't. It wouldn't make any sense to get a player you don't think is as good by trading down.

Having said that, if they felt Montoya was as good as Ladd than it also doesn't make sense to lose an extra pick when you get the same quality guy without losing the pick.

Furthermore the Rangers "depth" in goal is because they have two top prospects. In drafting you almost always go with the best player. The Rangers obviously feel they did that and I certainly think they have a valid claim.

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Montoya is not a sure thing also, there is also some chance he will not become a great goalie on NHL level, there is also a chance he can get a serious injury.
No on is a sure thing and that's a two way street for the guys you mentioned as well. Any one of them could be a bust or get injured. But ideally {like gambling} you want the best odds possible. The Rangers feel they got it in Montoya. Personally when I look at who else was on the board, I think they were probably right.


We also can't forget that even if Montoya was gone, they likely would have traded down and taken Korpikoski anyway. We are almost making it seem like the Rangers settled for Montoya when in all reality he was a desired target for them.

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10-08-2004, 07:46 PM
  #131
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korpikoski looks like he could be a late bloomer...i'd honestly rather have a guy who improves his play after being drafted than a guy who does wel before being drafted and then doesn't improve as much afterwards. sounds like korpikoski is improving, which tells me they made a good pick at this point (very premature i know)

i also think tukonen is overhyped by a lot of people...probably has the potential to be a solid player but he's no star in the making IMO. and he's struggled to start this year...1 goal is all he has as far as i know (might have gotten another point or so somewhere) and he's been playing on top lines with scoring players. soooo this supposed "steal" in the draft isn't doing any better than korpikoski stats wise

as for montoya...well i just figure again that if he fulfills his potential, he's definatly the most valuable player that the rangers could have possibly picked at that position.

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10-08-2004, 07:58 PM
  #132
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i also think tukonen is overhyped by a lot of people...probably has the potential to be a solid player but he's no star in the making IMO. and he's struggled to start this year...1 goal is all he has as far as i know (might have gotten another point or so somewhere) and he's been playing on top lines with scoring players. soooo this supposed "steal" in the draft isn't doing any better than korpikoski stats wise
Many are gushing that Korpikoski made the SM Liiga at 18, well Tukonen made it at just 17. And regarding his slow start, I heard he had some injury over the summer.

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10-08-2004, 10:51 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
Many are gushing that Korpikoski made the SM Liiga at 18, well Tukonen made it at just 17. And regarding his slow start, I heard he had some injury over the summer.
its still pretty impressive that korpikoski made a mens league. tukonen may have made the league at 17 but from what i have read "the korpedo" (love the name) has passed tukonen.

the few times i have seen either play have been in edited clips and both players are impressive.

why do you think tukonen is so much better than korpikoski?

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10-08-2004, 11:34 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
its still pretty impressive that korpikoski made a mens league. tukonen may have made the league at 17 but from what i have read "the korpedo" (love the name) has passed tukonen.

the few times i have seen either play have been in edited clips and both players are impressive.

why do you think tukonen is so much better than korpikoski?
because, he actually has shown that he can score in the juniors and already spent a season in the SM Liiga, plus he has some size advantage, and every source claimed that he is a good hardworking player who could develop into a good powerforward.

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10-08-2004, 11:47 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
because, he actually has shown that he can score in the juniors and already spent a season in the SM Liiga, plus he has some size advantage, and every source claimed that he is a good hardworking player who could develop into a good powerforward.
well the rangers were not the only team to pass on tukonen and if it came down to montoya or tukonen i would take montoya 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

from what i read korpioski had great workouts and you have to be impressed that he made a mens league this year which i don't think he was expected to do. korpioski has shown he too can score in juniors.

i'm curious have you seen these players live or just on tv?

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10-08-2004, 11:59 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
well the rangers were not the only team to pass on tukonen and if it came down to montoya or tukonen i would take montoya 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

from what i read korpioski had great workouts and you have to be impressed that he made a mens league this year which i don't think he was expected to do. korpioski has shown he too can score in juniors.

i'm curious have you seen these players live or just on tv?
I am not impressed that he made mens league, I expected him to make it.

12 goals in 36 games in juniors does not show me he can score; 14 goals in 14 games does. There were 18 teams who passed on Korpikoski, so what is your point? Coyotes passed on Montoya.

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10-09-2004, 12:10 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
I am not impressed that he made mens league, I expected him to make it.

12 goals in 36 games in juniors does not show me he can score; 14 goals in 14 games does. There were 18 teams who passed on Korpikoski, so what is your point? Coyotes passed on Montoya.
well i'm glad you expected him to make the mens league but i don't think many people did. hey i could be wrong though. tukonen has great numbers but plenty of kids have great numbers and never make it. korpikoski was picked right were he was expected to be picked and in a crap shoot sort of draft as this years draft was thats pretty impressive.

the point is tukonen dropped in the draft and 5 teams passed on montoya while ten ten teams passed on tukonen.

hey i'm not an expert on these kids but from what i have read i'm happy the rangers have korpioski.

i'm curious have you ever seen tukonen play? how can you be so sure he is so great?


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 10-09-2004 at 12:15 AM.
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10-09-2004, 12:18 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
well i'm glad you expected him to make the mens league but i don't think many people did. hey i could be wrong though. tukonen has great numbers but plenty of kids have great numbers and never make it. korpikoski was picked right were he was expected to be picked and in a crap shoot sort of draft as this years draft was thats pretty impressive.

the point is tukonen dropped in the draft and 5 teams passed on montoya while ten ten teams passed on tukonen.

hey i'm not an expert on these kids but from what i have read i'm happy the rangers have korpioski?

i'm curious have you ever seen tukonen play? how can you be so sure he is so great?
I rather pick a player who slipped and call it a steal than reach out and trade up for a player who made the 1st round stricktly on hype and 6 great games.

I never seen either play, and I never said I am sure that Tukonen will be great, but from everything I read on him he sounded like just the type of player that I wanted--a big, gritty, powerforward type, with very good skill and work ethic.

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10-09-2004, 12:26 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
I rather pick a player who slipped and call it a steal than reach out and trade up for a player who made the 1st round stricktly on hype and 6 great games.

I never seen either play, and I never said I am sure that Tukonen will be great, but from everything I read on him he sounded like just the type of player that I wanted--a big, gritty, powerforward type, with very good skill and work ethic.
i would rather pick whoever is the best player available. the rangers clearly thought montoya was that and i'm happy they didn't go off there board and take tukonen.


if you haven't seen korpioski play how can you be so sure the rangers are only going off 6 good games?

if you haven't seen tukonen play how can you be so sure he is any of the qualities you listed? "a big, gritty, powerforward type, with very good skill and work ethic."

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10-09-2004, 12:34 AM
  #140
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i would rather pick whoever is the best player available. the rangers clearly thought montoya was that and i'm happy they didn't go off there board and take tukonen.
First of all that's not going off the board, second, they could have easily traded down to 11th spot, because LA really wanted Montoya.

At 11th spot we could have picked Thelen, Stafford, Tukonen, Schwarz, Nokelainen, etc.

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10-09-2004, 12:52 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
First of all that's not going off the board, second, they could have easily traded down to 11th spot, because LA really wanted Montoya.

At 11th spot we could have picked Thelen, Stafford, Tukonen, Schwarz, Nokelainen, etc.
they could have how do you know this? what were the kings offering for the 6th pick in the draft? is an extra pick really worth not picking the guy you have targeted?

perhaps the gap between montoya and thelen, stafford, tukonen, schwarz, and nokelainen on the rangers board was great. i think the rangers had korposki higher than all 4 of those guys but i could be wrong about that.

From what i have seen from montoya and read about tukonen i think the rangers did the right thing but what do i know.

do you know what the rangers board was i ask because didn't they show it during blueshirts inside/out this year?

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10-09-2004, 01:07 AM
  #142
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With Tukoen vs. Korpikoski it comes down to the known vs. the unknown.

Tukonen is the known {and been under the microscope for a while}. Korpikoski is essentially a kid who was a late bloomer, came out of nowhere and on more than a few lists was the best Finnish player in the draft.

Now whether Korpikoski has "passed" Tukonen is unfair to say at this point. They are two different players whom I'd expect two different things out of.

Tukonen is a solid player but I don't see scoring as being one of his stronger contributions. Korpikoski on the other hand might be a better offensive player.


But the thing with prospects {and what everyone needs to remember} is that some progress while others slow down. Just because Tukonen was seen as better this time last year doesn't mean he wins by default forever.

For what it's worth I think Tukonen could be a good player I just don't think he'll be a big scorer and I wouldn't have taken him over Montoya. On the flip side I can't compare him and Korpikoski just yet. Korpikoski has the higher ceiling IMO, but is more of a risk and an unproven talent at this point.

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10-09-2004, 01:12 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Edge
With Tukoen vs. Korpikoski it comes down to the known vs. the unknown.

Tukonen is the known {and been under the microscope for a while}. Korpikoski is essentially a kid who was a late bloomer, came out of nowhere and on more than a few lists was the best Finnish player in the draft.

Now whether Korpikoski has "passed" Tukonen is unfair to say at this point. They are two different players whom I'd expect two different things out of.

Tukonen is a solid player but I don't see scoring as being one of his stronger contributions. Korpikoski on the other hand might be a better offensive player.


But the thing with prospects {and what everyone needs to remember} is that some progress while others slow down. Just because Tukonen was seen as better this time last year doesn't mean he wins by default forever.

For what it's worth I think Tukonen could be a good player I just don't think he'll be a big scorer and I wouldn't have taken him over Montoya. On the flip side I can't compare him and Korpikoski just yet. Korpikoski has the higher ceiling IMO, but is more of a risk and an unproven talent at this point.
Just how much do you expect Korpikoski to score in NHL in his prime?

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10-09-2004, 01:15 AM
  #144
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Anybody got results of our college prospects that played tonight?

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10-09-2004, 01:38 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I rather pick a player who slipped and call it a steal than reach out and trade up for a player who made the 1st round stricktly on hype and 6 great games.
You must note that if the Rangers in general and Rockström in particular were really interested in Korpikoski, they would have scouted many more games than just those in the world junior under 18 tournament. They must have seen things in his game that impressed them.

And by the way, not to nit-pick, but I have no idea where you get this 6 games number from. Korpikoski's reputation skyrocketed based on his play in two tournaments: the WJC-18 (7 games played) and the Karjala Cup (3 games). In the first, he was joint highest scorer, and in the second he was named the tournament's best forward.

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10-09-2004, 06:13 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
Many are gushing that Korpikoski made the SM Liiga at 18, well Tukonen made it at just 17. And regarding his slow start, I heard he had some injury over the summer.
Don't forget that Korpedo made the team playing against NHL Calibre people in the SM Liiga, and only turned 18 two months ago.

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10-09-2004, 11:06 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Prucha73
Just how much do you expect Korpikoski to score in NHL in his prime?
That's a bit of a loaded question. It assumes he makes it and reaches his max potential. But under those circumstances I'd say he could be a a nice 25 goal, 50 point player with maybe a peak of 30 goals and 60 points {again theoretical maximum}.

Tukonen on the other hand {as of right now} looks more like a solid 15-20 goal, 40 odd point guy who plays a wellrounded game.

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10-09-2004, 11:10 AM
  #148
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Its waaaay to hard to put a points tag on a guy who just turned 18. Whos starting a new league, has never played an American style game, etc.

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10-09-2004, 12:04 PM
  #149
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No one is putting a points tag on anyone, it was talking about a possible theoretical maximum.

LOL this is exactly why when you people hound me for porjections, predicitions and possibilities I avoid it like the plague.

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10-09-2004, 12:42 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Edge
No one is putting a points tag on anyone, it was talking about a possible theoretical maximum.

LOL this is exactly why when you people hound me for porjections, predicitions and possibilities I avoid it like the plague.
I figure he'll make the NHL as a 21 year old, will score 10 points in his first year as a part timer and will become a third liner in his second season getting 25-30 points a year.

After that he'll bounce between the 3rd line and spot duty on the 2nd where he'll have one career year of 50 points at the age of 25. After that he'll get a leg injury, will then come back have a disappointing season and will get traded for a veteran and a borderline prospect.

His career will go and down from there, never really getting much more than part time 2nd line duty and he will return home to Finland at the age of 33 after deciding that he wants to raise his kids in Europe.

He'll retire from the SM-Liiga at 35 and open a wilderness adventure business that will be moderately successful and the business name will be a play on his name (in Finnish of course).

He'll then make a brief comeback at the age of 44 in South Korea, linking up with the now 70 year old Tikkanen for the Gecko Glaciers: http://www.glaciershockey.com/

He will then return a year later having been satisfied that is career in hockey is over and a sponsorship deal from Hyundai.

At the age of 50 he'll run for the Finnish parliament and will we elected to represent Turku (not sure if Turku has a representative, so I'm assuming here) and he will ultimately have a fine career as a politician ultimatly resulting in his appointment as ambassador to Sri Lanka. He'll live there for the rest of his life and will write a biography of the life and times of Arthur C Clarke before passing away at the age of 83 in a hunting accident.

Like Edge, apart from these certainties, I'm finding it very hard to predict what type of player Korpikoski will become.

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