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Old
01-02-2012, 06:28 PM
  #76
Rivet52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Hard decisions could include:

- Ruff's continued presence behind the bench
- Regier's continued presence as the GM
- Making a roster change immediately
- Buying or selling now or at the deadline
Agree on all four. I was going to say the same.

I don't underestimate Black; I'm willing to give him some time to do some more significant things. I'm still happy with everything Black and the rest have done with this franchise since taking over. Things haven't worked out the way we thought so far, but I liked the changes then and I still like them now. When you think about it, under Black a lot of changes have already been made and despite the struggles of the team this year, those changes have been for the good. I don't personally think he'll be as passive as the previous regime we're used to. We saw it over the summer and I think we'll be seeing it again soon if we continue the way we're headed right now. I look at what Black did for the Penguins and although they have some of the world's best players, I still trust that Black's smart and knows what he's doing.

In addition, why are we looking to trade Leino after 29 games played here? The experiment at center failed. We knew we were taking a risk putting him there in the first place. It was a gamble and it didn't work. We still got the best winger on the market last summer. I remember Chain saying, at worst, we still got a top 6 winger if all else fails. I stand by that.

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01-02-2012, 07:00 PM
  #77
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He was playing center when he went down...

Half the reason he struggled out of the gate was that Lindy didn't understand what made him effective in Philly. Chemistry. He played Ville with Ennis and Stafford all preaseason, two guys who had their own chemistry from the stretch run + playoffs, then broke up that whole combination to create a spare parts line with Ennis, Leino and Boyes that was just a bad mix of playing styles.

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01-02-2012, 07:09 PM
  #78
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I have a feeling that Roy and Miller will be sent packing by the trade deadline.

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01-02-2012, 07:19 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
Agree on all four. I was going to say the same.

I don't underestimate Black; I'm willing to give him some time to do some more significant things. I'm still happy with everything Black and the rest have done with this franchise since taking over. Things haven't worked out the way we thought so far, but I liked the changes then and I still like them now. When you think about it, under Black a lot of changes have already been made and despite the struggles of the team this year, those changes have been for the good. I don't personally think he'll be as passive as the previous regime we're used to. We saw it over the summer and I think we'll be seeing it again soon if we continue the way we're headed right now. I look at what Black did for the Penguins and although they have some of the world's best players, I still trust that Black's smart and knows what he's doing.

In addition, why are we looking to trade Leino after 29 games played here? The experiment at center failed. We knew we were taking a risk putting him there in the first place. It was a gamble and it didn't work. We still got the best winger on the market last summer. I remember Chain saying, at worst, we still got a top 6 winger if all else fails. I stand by that.
and it amazes me that more people don't read and read again the bolded. Let that sink in. To think otherwise is foolish. Drama queens ..... BIG TIME. This team will progress. This team will get better. It just isn't in the precious little timeline that some want. Cry me a river.
The franchise as a whole is healthier, and better than 12 months ago. That. is. awesome. Short sighted complaining falls on deaf ears for some. Me included.

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01-02-2012, 07:43 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
He was playing center when he went down...

Half the reason he struggled out of the gate was that Lindy didn't understand what made him effective in Philly. Chemistry. He played Ville with Ennis and Stafford all preaseason, two guys who had their own chemistry from the stretch run + playoffs, then broke up that whole combination to create a spare parts line with Ennis, Leino and Boyes that was just a bad mix of playing styles.
He was playing center again, and that Adam - Leino - Kassian line was working well before he went down but for the most part, he has looked better at wing than at center in the time he's been here.

I do agree with you that Lindy tends to break up lines that click. Same with Vanek - Adam - Pominville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
and it amazes me that more people don't read and read again the bolded. Let that sink in. To think otherwise is foolish. Drama queens ..... BIG TIME. This team will progress. This team will get better. It just isn't in the precious little timeline that some want. Cry me a river.
The franchise as a whole is healthier, and better than 12 months ago. That. is. awesome. Short sighted complaining falls on deaf ears for some. Me included.
Certainly. The franchise is in better shape now and in the future than it has been in the last few years, even though we're not seeing immediate results. It'll take time and some people tend to not have the patience. Part of the problem with that is that the expectations were too high and in all reality, no one should have been certain we'd see immediate results right away. The way the year has gone is disappointing but certainly not totally unexpected (yet injuries have taken their toll and we have no control or prediction of those).

I think people just thought everyone was going to click right off the bat and the team would be right at the top of the standings the whole year. Reality is, that's not always the case. Chemistry, or lackthereof, has been a big problem for us, but it can't be forced. It comes naturally. Something's not always going to work out well just because it looks good on paper. There's no guarantees. Now that the team has not met the somewhat unreasonable expectations, fans are in panic mode and are forgetting the big picture - in the long-run this franchise has greatly improved now and for the future and we're in good hands. With all the change, it might take more than just a few months, simple as that. Time will tell. The team will get going, there's too much talent here for it not to. It's just a matter of when. With that in mind, some more changes might be needed to help the flow along but for instance, I'm not going to call for Leino's head after just 29 games here. That kind of thing seems a bit silly and ridiculous to me, hence the panic some fans already have.


Last edited by Rivet52: 01-02-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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01-02-2012, 07:43 PM
  #81
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Roy has to go. That alone will quell the masses a bit.

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01-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Sekera looks amazing when he's a bottom pairing guy. If you try matching him against top lines is a blatant FAIL. Same could be said for most of the Sabre's blue liners, but I don't see a future on the Sabres for both Gragnani and Sekera. They need to choose, and since we are talking bottom pairing depth, I would choose to trade whoever brings back the bigger return. Which I think would be Sekera.
I think most would agree Sekera's two best seasons have been last season and this. In both, he's had the second highest quality of competition on the team (>15 games this season). He's actually done quite well against better competition. He's definitely a legitimate second-pairing defenseman in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Hecht is a good player for sure, but forgive me for disregarding the past and looking ahead. This season, he hasn't been great in any zone, not bad, but not great. Maybe I'm looking too hard for one or two guys not named Vanek or Pomminville to pick up the slack, and I don't want to lump him in with the Leino-Stafford-Boyes-Roy-etc.. gang. But, he's not good enough for me to want to lock him up at 3-3.5 for another 2-3 years and see how it goes. As of today nobody spends more money on player salary then the Sabres, so they don't have the
I think Hecht's skating this season has looked as good as it has in a long while. He, too, is miscast. If he's willing to come back on a one-year deal for half his salary and in a bottom-6 role where he belongs, they should think about it. No multi-year deal, though. I question his durability.

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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Gausted belongs as a complimentary part on a Cup contender this season. And for that reason, I think he would bring back a GREAT return at this deadline. More than Boyes or Hecht would. Who knows, maybe they even sign him back this summer after trading him? lol That never happens. The only thing I wont miss are his wheels, if he was a faster player he would be an absolute beast.
We agree on this point. I don't think Gaustad is a great player, but I think we'd be surprised with the return he'd bring back if they made him available. He has size, faceoff ability, is a pretty solid PKer, and wouldn't cause any waves being the new guy in the room. San Jose and their 28th-ranked PK would do well to look into Goose. And if they want to get past Vancouver, they may want a situational faceoff man to counteract Malhotra and win faceoffs against that potent PP.

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01-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #83
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I don't think expectations were set too high. I think fans expected the team from the second half of last season to show up for this season, especially considering the nice improvements (Regehr, Leino, and Erhoff and maybe even new ownership) we acquired. That seems reasonable. Or maybe it's me.

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01-02-2012, 08:00 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClue4u View Post
I don't think expectations were set too high. I think fans expected the team from the second half of last season to show up for this season, especially considering the nice improvements (Regehr, Leino, and Erhoff and maybe even new ownership) we acquired. That seems reasonable. Or maybe it's me.
I'm more speaking of the irrational fans who expected us to be Cup contenders. I know they don't represent us as a whole but there are some fans that pegged us as way better than even most of us that we'd be.

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01-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
I'm more speaking of the irrational fans who expected us to be Cup contenders. I know they don't represent us as a whole but there are some fans that pegged us as way better than even most of us that we'd be.
That's because many posters are only able to see extremes. We're either awesome or we need to blow it all up. The fact is, most teams (and most of life) are somewhere in the middle. It's hard to be witty on the internet regarding mediocrity, though.

Anyways, I'm happy to trade Roy and Stafford for good value. I do not subscribe to the increasingly popular view that any trade is a good trade and bringing in any new coach and GM is a good move.

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01-02-2012, 08:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
I have a feeling that Roy and Miller will be sent packing by the trade deadline.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if they traded one, let alone both. Unless Miller has privately requested to be traded--and I don't think that he has or would--I can't see him traded on Ruff's and Regier's watch. Lindy clearly still has a lot of faith in Ryan, maybe too much right now, and Regier firmly believes he's their franchise player for better or worse.

Regarding Roy, he's certainly the more likely one to be traded, but I think it's just as likely that they attempt to add another top-6 center to complement Roy. Given the stupid and altogether arbitrary three-year window set forth by Pegula, as well as the complete dearth of another top-6 center on this roster or (arguably) in the organization as a whole, I just can't see them trading him right now. The only circumstance under which I see him moved is if Regier finds a partner for a change of scenery hockey trade for another center who will come with his own set of issues--think Stastny or Carter.

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01-02-2012, 08:41 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
Roy has to go. That alone will quell the masses a bit.
Not picking on you specifically, but this comment caught my eye.

I don't want the masses quelled. I don't want them to do something just to get fans to shut up. I want them to make the right moves to improve the team and turn this around.

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01-02-2012, 10:10 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think most would agree Sekera's two best seasons have been last season and this. In both, he's had the second highest quality of competition on the team (>15 games this season). He's actually done quite well against better competition. He's definitely a legitimate second-pairing defenseman in the NHL.



I think Hecht's skating this season has looked as good as it has in a long while. He, too, is miscast. If he's willing to come back on a one-year deal for half his salary and in a bottom-6 role where he belongs, they should think about it. No multi-year deal, though. I question his durability.



We agree on this point. I don't think Gaustad is a great player, but I think we'd be surprised with the return he'd bring back if they made him available. He has size, faceoff ability, is a pretty solid PKer, and wouldn't cause any waves being the new guy in the room. San Jose and their 28th-ranked PK would do well to look into Goose. And if they want to get past Vancouver, they may want a situational faceoff man to counteract Malhotra and win faceoffs against that potent PP.
OK fine, we keep Sekera but then Gragnani has to go.

Hecht doesn't win face-offs, so I dunno what role he's supposed to be cast in. The Sabres are loaded at wing, so if his role is checking line winger, I don't know if they need him anymore. He's playing fine, but he's not going to settle for 1 year at 1.5. Somebody will give him a multi-year deal. So trade him and get something for him.

San Jose would be an interesting trade partner for Goose but I was hoping for Philly. I think they are going to want to load up with a vet or two if they feel they can make a serious Cup run. They have a ton of very interesting younger players.

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01-03-2012, 07:38 AM
  #89
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So Bucky gets an interview with Ted Black and doesn't ask what time the big group meeting is this week, who's meeting and what hard decisions they're going to make, what Ted meant when he said they'd have to "decide where we're going to go with this season"?

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01-03-2012, 08:20 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
So Bucky gets an interview with Ted Black and doesn't ask what time the big group meeting is this week, who's meeting and what hard decisions they're going to make, what Ted meant when he said they'd have to "decide where we're going to go with this season"?
Is this a reference to something I missed?

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01-03-2012, 08:27 AM
  #91
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Is this a reference to something I missed?
Ted told Channel 2 on New Year's Eve, "I think we're probably at a crossroads right now in where the season is and we need to sit down as a group next week and decide where we're going to go with this season."

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/pro_hocke...-at-Crossroads

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01-03-2012, 08:31 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Ted told Channel 2 on New Year's Eve, "I think we're probably at a crossroads right now in where the season is and we need to sit down as a group next week and decide where we're going to go with this season."

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/pro_hocke...-at-Crossroads
Oh, that. Thanks.

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01-03-2012, 08:32 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Ted told Channel 2 on New Year's Eve, "I think we're probably at a crossroads right now in where the season is and we need to sit down as a group next week and decide where we're going to go with this season."

http://www.wgrz.com/sports/pro_hocke...-at-Crossroads


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01-03-2012, 10:44 AM
  #94
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Or, OR, they gave Ruff and Regier the leeway that they didn't have before to prove that that wasn't what was preventing them from having success.

Pegula and Black have had this team for less than a year. If they're giving management enough rope to hang themselves and now we're just watching the results come in, then that's a methodical approach that I can appreciate.
This's pretty much exactly what I think we're seeing.

Regier and Ruff will have no excuses after this season. None - not even the injuries. They have everything they could ever want at their disposal - and their not using it. Neither one of them. Not increasing/improving the scouting department or coaching. There's no excuse for the ****** play we're seeing even from the guys who are healthy. It's put-up or shut-up time for the dynamic duo, and so far, they're not putting much up.

It's painful to watch another season play out like this, but if the end result is a new coach/GM, then I guess that's just the price we have to pay to move forward.

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01-03-2012, 10:54 AM
  #95
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Oh, that. Thanks.


Yep, just the team president wearing a tux and a sullen face granting a TV interview on New Year's Eve to say some group would be meeting this week to talk about where they're going to go with this season and to possibly make some "hard decisions" in the same time frame.

Nothing to see here. No wonder fans and media are ignoring the story, they've been so beaten down by the idea that nothing will ever change.

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01-03-2012, 10:58 AM
  #96
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I can't believe Bucky didn't have a quality follow-up to Black's comments. Talk about missing a tailor-made opportunity to dig a story out of the usual vague sports-speak.

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01-03-2012, 11:14 AM
  #97
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No doubt to me that means go for it or cut losses this year and plan for next.

I hope they don't just try to squeak into the playoffs knowing damn well their roster probably can't make much noise.

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01-03-2012, 11:28 AM
  #98
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No doubt to me that means go for it or cut losses this year and plan for next.

I hope they don't just try to squeak into the playoffs knowing damn well their roster probably can't make much noise.
there can't possibly be any rational reasoning behind "going for it" this year...

emotional reasoning? certainly.

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01-03-2012, 11:53 AM
  #99
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The good news is that Black is spouting off about patience any longer.

I doubt that Regier or Ruff are in danger. But, it wouldn't be the wrong move to shake things up at either, or both, of those spots.

The really interesting question is did they have internal discussions amongst TP, TB, DR, and LR about giving the "Rochester Core" one more shot and then making changes.

With the way the captaincy decision was made, it felt to me like a message being sent to them that it was put up or shut up time. And only 2 of the 6 (Pominville and Vanek) have really put up this season.

I wouldn't be surprised if any of Roy, Stafford, Gaustad, and Miller aren't back next season. And they could move all of them out and not do a "blow it up and rebuild".

The tricky part is the lack of Florida Panthers-esque cap flexibility heading into 7/1/2012.

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01-03-2012, 11:54 AM
  #100
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there can't possibly be any rational reasoning behind "going for it" this year...

emotional reasoning? certainly.
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