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Habs sign Josh Gorges to a 6-year extension worth a reported 3.9mill per season

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01-02-2012, 12:25 AM
  #301
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Fourtunatly I don't only look at the stat sheet because this would look a lot worse.

Do you know why they play on teams that actually score goals? Because their teams don't hand out ridiculous contracts to players that play 20-22 mins a game to players like Gorges who DONT and CANT contribute at all to the offense. Are you still wondering why this team can't goals. He's not the biggest reason but it sure doesnt help.


Nothing against the good he's good at what he does but 2.5-3M would of been very fair for Gorges on a 6 year deal. Every Mill counts nowadays if you want to improve your team in a salary cap league.

This team just has awful money management.
I agree.

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01-02-2012, 12:46 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
wrong. (not him in particular) but these players are usually easier to trade because of this.


and while you think the got a good deal in Buff, for them to have a decent cap hit, they had to pay him more than double his cap hit to get him under contract...

the guy better not get a serious injury during those two seasons...
But why do you care the cap hit is still 4M .. Pegula at the end of the day dishes out the same amout of money when the 10 years are up. It's a way of getting the best bang for the buck in terms of dealing with the cap.

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01-02-2012, 12:51 AM
  #303
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Feels like a bit of an overpayment but it's not that bad. Gorges is a good guy to have around too and sets a good example on the ice. I can certainly live with him at that price.

Anyone else feel like we could've done this cheaper if we'd signed him back in the summer though? Just seems like we gave him a lot of leverage because it really would've hit the fan if he'd left after this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Gorges > Subban
It's debatable right now. I don't think this will be even close though in a couple of years. Subban is going to get big paydays down the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Fourtunatly I don't only look at the stat sheet because this would look a lot worse.

Do you know why they play on teams that actually score goals? Because their teams don't hand out ridiculous contracts to players that play 20-22 mins a game to players like Gorges who DONT and CANT contribute at all to the offense. Are you still wondering why this team can't goals. He's not the biggest reason but it sure doesnt help.

Nothing against the good he's good at what he does but 2.5-3M would of been very fair for Gorges on a 6 year deal. Every Mill counts nowadays if you want to improve your team in a salary cap league.

This team just has awful money management.
I get where you're coming from but 2.5 is just unrealistic. There's no way he doesn't get at least 3.5 somewhere else on the open market. Overpaid by half a mil? I think so. I would've liked to have seen better but at least we're signing a guy that I think is going to be a good role model. He's not a central building block by any stretch but he leads by example, has heart and Lord knows we need this.

If the cap continues to go up, this contract wll actually be a bargain in a few years. I really don't think it's that bad unless he pulls a Komisarek and suddenly decides to suck.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 01-02-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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Old
01-02-2012, 12:58 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
lol .. he has 6 less points than Subban and Kaberle.

We have one defenseman on the active roster who a plus-players this year. Gorges leads all defenseman (also the team in +/-). There is a reason for that.

We have only 5 players on the active roster who are not in the minus. Desharnais, Cole, Leblanc, Gorges, and Eller.
Ian White leads all defenseman in + -
White = best blueliner in the NHL.

While I agree Gorges is good at what he does + - is the most useless stat out there and means nothing.

Gorges>Subban ??

Does that mean if you had one to pick you would pick Gorges and let Subban walk?

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01-02-2012, 01:02 AM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Ian White leads all defenseman in + -
White = best blueliner in the NHL.

While I agree Gorges is good at what he does + - is the most useless stat out there and means nothing.

Gorges>Subban ??

Does that mean if you had one to pick you would pick Gorges and let Subban walk?
+/- is a garbage stat when compared around the league. When compared between a team, it's a pretty telling stat.

And yes, I'd pick Gorges. 1) Gorges is a leader. 2) Gorges brings heart and soul. 3) Subban's potential would get us a nice return.

If they both had the same return, I'd really have to consider. Especially because I think a huge part of Price staying is going to be that Gorges is here.

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01-02-2012, 01:02 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Feels like a bit of an overpayment but it's not that bad. Gorges is a good guy to have around too and sets a good example on the ice. I can certainly live with him at that price.

Anyone else feel like we could've done this cheaper if we'd signed him back in the summer though? Just seems like we gave him a lot of leverage because it really would've hit the fan if he'd left after this year.
Probably, but then you're taking on the risk that he can't come back to be the guy he was before, or will stay out of the lineup like Markov. Markov is pretty much irreplaceable in the short term and had the leverage of UFA so it was sign him multiple years or lose him, they could afford to hedge their bets with Gorges.

Fortunately he proceeded to elevate his game to that of about a good #3 defender where he was a borderline top-4 before this year. I'd gladly pay more for the 2011-12 Gorges now that he exists then the 2009-11 one.

The big thing a lot of people who think the payment is a bit steep is how elite of a penalty kill player Gorges is. Huge part of the team's shorthanded success. 4 million is fair for a player that both plays big shutdown minutes at even strength and is a big contributor on one of your special teams. Between Gorges and Subban Montreal can probably afford to say good-bye to Gill next year without a big drop off in penalty killing so long as they have a couple competent secondary guys.

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01-02-2012, 01:11 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Feels like a bit of an overpayment but it's not that bad. Gorges is a good guy to have around too and sets a good example on the ice. I can certainly live with him at that price.

Anyone else feel like we could've done this cheaper if we'd signed him back in the summer though? Just seems like we gave him a lot of leverage because it really would've hit the fan if he'd left after this year.


It's debatable right now. I don't think this will be even close though in a couple of years. Subban is going to get big paydays down the road.

I get where you're coming from but 2.5 is just unrealistic. There's no way he doesn't get at least 3.5 somewhere else on the open market. Overpaid by half a mil? I think so. I would've liked to have seen better but at least we're signing a guy that I think is going to be a good role model. He's not a central building block by any stretch but he leads by example, has heart and Lord knows we need this.

If the cap continues to go up, this contract wll actually be a bargain in a few years. I really don't think it's that bad unless he pulls a Komisarek and suddenly decides to suck.
I'd say 3.5m on the open market would be the low end of what he would have received IMO. I'd even say some team would have offered him 4.5m considering what some are making from UFA deals.

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01-02-2012, 01:11 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
+/- is a garbage stat when compared around the league. When compared between a team, it's a pretty telling stat.

And yes, I'd pick Gorges. 1) Gorges is a leader. 2) Gorges brings heart and soul. 3) Subban's potential would get us a nice return.

If they both had the same return, I'd really have to consider. Especially because I think a huge part of Price staying is going to be that Gorges is here.
I like Gorges too, but you'd really have to be crazy to trade Subban over him. Even if the return is better, you don't trade away that kind of potential.

I think Subban has what it takes to be a heart and sould guy too. He's got great raw talent and while he may not go on to have a HOF career, I don't see how he misses as a bonafide number one blueliner at the very least. Gorges is never going to be more than what he is now. That's not a negative by any stretch, it's just that he doesn't have the talents that PK does.

Both at the same return? It's not even close.

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01-02-2012, 01:14 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Feels like a bit of an overpayment but it's not that bad. Gorges is a good guy to have around too and sets a good example on the ice. I can certainly live with him at that price.

Anyone else feel like we could've done this cheaper if we'd signed him back in the summer though? Just seems like we gave him a lot of leverage because it really would've hit the fan if he'd left after this year.
Habsterix mentioned this earlier in this thread, (also provided a quote from an interview he had with Gorges). In it, when asked about the rumoured 4mil per year contract. Gorges replied something to the effect of "We're no where close to that".

So my guess is PG could have signed him to a cheaper contract at that time, but wasn't willing to take the risk.

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01-02-2012, 01:17 AM
  #310
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Good signing. Always loved Gorges.

Hope he'll be our next captain.

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01-02-2012, 01:24 AM
  #311
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[QUOTE=Stradale;41770037]Good signing. Always loved Gorges.

Hope he'll be our next captain.[/QUOT

i dont see all the fervor about this
Gorges a decent undersized Dman a 4th type Dman- not sure if i would have given him almsost 4 mill a season -
he an ok player- but thats about it- alot of teams have this type of player- 4th type dman -good team player- wont win or lose you a cup-
sounds like we signed a young doug Harvey! LOL

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01-02-2012, 01:25 AM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
+/- is a garbage stat when compared around the league. When compared between a team, it's a pretty telling stat.

And yes, I'd pick Gorges. 1) Gorges is a leader. 2) Gorges brings heart and soul. 3) Subban's potential would get us a nice return.

If they both had the same return, I'd really have to consider. Especially because I think a huge part of Price staying is going to be that Gorges is here.
That's the problem with management lately, scary thing is that I wouldn't be surprised that's the way PG thinks too.
"Let's sign Gill he's a leader and he brings heart and soul."
You have to have the talent to go with the heart and desire to win, Subban has that.
Bringning leadership and heart alone is not enough.
I don't know how someone could pick Gorges over Subban that's nuts.

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01-02-2012, 01:26 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
Ian White leads all defenseman in + -
White = best blueliner in the NHL.

While I agree Gorges is good at what he does + - is the most useless stat out there and means nothing.

Gorges>Subban ??

Does that mean if you had one to pick you would pick Gorges and let Subban walk?
LOL- i dont think so- really dont see whats with all the Hype? weird

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01-02-2012, 01:29 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
That's the problem with management lately, scary thing is that I wouldn't be surprised that's the way PG thinks too.
"Let's sign Gill he's a leader and he brings heart and soul."
You have to have the talent to go with the heart and desire to win, Subban has that.
Bringning leadership and heart alone is not enough.
I don't know how someone could pick Gorges over Subban that's nuts.
i cant see it either- wouldnt want that person to be in charge of anything-= Gorges over subban? Thats just plain silly

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01-02-2012, 01:34 AM
  #315
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Like-the-player-hate-the-contract.

6 year contracts for 3rd pairing defenseman with multiple knee surgeries is questionable risk management. Let this be Gauthier's last signing please.

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01-02-2012, 01:35 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
LOL- i dont think so- really dont see whats with all the Hype? weird
There's no hype or anything. We are just happy with the signing because this team needs him. He does make this team better, believe it or not but you probably don't see it. He does everything right as a defenseman, having a offensive skill sure does help, Gorges doesn't have it, that is why he is not getting paid 6M$+ but as a defensive defenseman, he is extremely effective.

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01-02-2012, 01:36 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Like-the-player-hate-the-contract.

6 year contracts for 3rd pairing defenseman with multiple knee surgeries is questionable risk management. Let this be Gauthier's last signing please.
yes i agree- and add gainey to that- hopefully this is his last season having anything to do with the Canadiens organization- Gainey is the architect of this team-

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01-02-2012, 01:37 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
There's no hype or anything. We are just happy with the signing because this team needs him. He does make this team better, believe it or not but you probably don't see it. He does everything right as a defenseman, having a offensive skill sure does help, Gorges doesn't have it, that is why he is not getting paid 6M$+ but as a defensive defenseman, he is extremely effective.
he is a decent smaller type defensive Dman- who is having a decent season on a bad team- thats about it-

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01-02-2012, 01:37 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Like-the-player-hate-the-contract.

6 year contracts for 3rd pairing defenseman with multiple knee surgeries is questionable risk management. Let this be Gauthier's last signing please.
lol. Only the haterist haters would still call Gorges anything but a great #3 defenseman.

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01-02-2012, 01:38 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
he is a decent smaller type defensive Dman- who is having a decent season on a bad team- thats about it-
That's what you think about him and fortunately, its not the truth.

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01-02-2012, 01:41 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by King Kovalev View Post
But why do you care the cap hit is still 4M .. Pegula at the end of the day dishes out the same amout of money when the 10 years are up. It's a way of getting the best bang for the buck in terms of dealing with the cap.
like the players will keep playing at 40 for more or less a Mil per...


most teams cant afford 70 or 80 Mil in salary... wether the actual cap is lower doesnt really matter...

even if he saved "cap money", reality is he has to dish out 10 Mil for one player (who isnt all that great by the way), so chances are that if a deal comes trough, a player having a lower cap hit than salary for example, he wont have the budget to get the said player...

we're not talking about 500K or a Mil difference here... but more than double... 10 Mil...

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01-02-2012, 01:42 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
That's what you think about him and fortunately, its not the truth.
that is the truth- look at his stats in his career- you see more than what is there- what i said wasnt anything bad- thats exactly what he is a 4th type Dman- doesnt have much O but plays a decent D game - thast what he is- no mor e no less

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01-02-2012, 01:44 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I guess Chara at 6.9 must be a brutal contract since 80% of his value is based on playing defense and being a leader.(the other 20% is for his slap shot on the PP).
Way to make yourself look like a fool... come on, 40% of his salary is based in his intimidation alone. He also gets above 40 points a season, plays better than average defense, he's a leader and is captain of his team.

Take away Chara's physicality/mean streak, and you end up with a Gill with a slapshot... Gill makes 2.5 millions, he'd make 4 max.



I'd have liked to see Gorges under 3.5/year, but I think we have much worse problems that his extra 400k/year on roster.

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01-02-2012, 01:44 AM
  #324
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Are you freakin kidding me? Since when did Gorges turn into Shea Weber suddenly so he could get 6 years?

What a bunch of idiots are running this club. We're stuck with another big contract after Kaberle. A team full of average players for big dollars.

This proves to me that Gauthier is still in full control and he's not ready to leave soon. If you're the owner you don't allow this to happen if you're willing to spend this kind of money and you have great confidence in your GM.

Gauthier is worst than Peanut.

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01-02-2012, 01:45 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
that is the truth- look at his stats in his career- you see more than what is there- what i said wasnt anything bad- thats exactly what he is a 4th type Dman- doesnt have much O but plays a decent D game - thast what he is- no mor e no less
What dont you understand in a defenseman being good defensively. If hes good offensively he would have got 5m$+

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