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5 of top 6 teams in ticket Revenue are Canadian...

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Old
01-01-2012, 10:25 PM
  #1
Kitsune
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5 of top 6 teams in ticket Revenue are Canadian...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...rticle/1109400

Rangers were the only one to be in the top 6... article also goes on to say the Leafs have maxed out there ticket prices. The lowest team was the now located Thrashers... while the Isles were second last.

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01-01-2012, 10:26 PM
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2525
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For the NHL The cash is in Canada

Quote:
A secret National Hockey League report detailing the ticket revenues of its 30 teams provides additional ammunition for those suggesting more struggling U.S.-based teams should relocated to Canada
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...in-canada?bn=1

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01-01-2012, 10:57 PM
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viper0220
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Nothing is serect at all, players and fans have known that for years. It was a good read tough.

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01-01-2012, 11:08 PM
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Not surprising there is more demand for Hockey in Canada then there is in the US.

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01-01-2012, 11:13 PM
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Fugu
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It's nice to see the actual figures however.
Quote:
The confidential document shows that the six Canadian NHL clubs last season accounted for about 33 per cent of the $1.2 billion (U.S.) in league ticket revenue. In 2007-08, Canada's six teams represented 31 per cent.
...
t will come as no surprise that the richest NHL team was the Montreal Canadiens, who league sources said were slightly ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs with $2 million worth of ticket revenue per game.

Based on 41 home games, the Canadiens generated about $82 million in 2010-11-excluding revenue from preseason and playoff games.
Some figures (ticket revenue):
Montreal - $2.0+ MM
Toronto - 2.0
Vancouver - $1.7
NY Rangers - 1.6
Calgary - ?
Ottawa - ?
Edmonton - ?

Chicago - $1.1
Pittsburgh - $1.1
Boston - $1.1
Detroit - $1-1.1 (according to me)
Washington - $1.0

Phoenix - $420K
NY Isles - $392K

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01-01-2012, 11:25 PM
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Crumblin Erb Brooks
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BREAKING NEWS: Canadians like hockey.

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01-01-2012, 11:33 PM
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Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
BREAKING NEWS: Canadians like hockey.

No, the news had been that Canadian markets after the big three can't compete.

I'm actually annoyed by this type of comment. You have cities far larger than Montreal or Toronto that are bringing in as much ticket revenue as the second tier Canadian cities. Yes, Canandians do love hockey so why does everyone argue on this board whenever someone states the obvious?

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01-01-2012, 11:42 PM
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Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed the Canadiens would be number 1 in terms of gate revenue. Thought the Leafs would have that one in the bag. And Phoenix's gate revenue went down!! I would have thought it had nowhere to go but up.

When you factor in the $25 or so million lost from the relocation of the Thrashers and the $50+ million gained in Canada due to the arrival of the Jets, I would venture to guess that over 35% of NHL gate revenue now comes from Canada.

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01-02-2012, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
t will come as no surprise that the richest NHL team was the Montreal Canadiens, who league sources said were slightly ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs with $2 million worth of ticket revenue per game.
Habs fans are getting jerked around.

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01-02-2012, 04:48 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed the Canadiens would be number 1 in terms of gate revenue. Thought the Leafs would have that one in the bag. And Phoenix's gate revenue went down!! I would have thought it had nowhere to go but up.

When you factor in the $25 or so million lost from the relocation of the Thrashers and the $50+ million gained in Canada due to the arrival of the Jets, I would venture to guess that over 35% of NHL gate revenue now comes from Canada.
Both seem to be pretty close in ticket revenue, as they were in 2008. Toronto has the smaller arena and higher prices, Montreal has an extra 1,200 seats.

I do, however, think it is ridiculous to say the Leafs have "maxed out" their ticket revenue potential. This is what MLSE COO Tom Anselmi said in September 2010:

Quote:
"Our costs continue to be high and we've invested a lot in Air Canada Centre improvements for the fans, but at the same time, we can't justify a raise at this time."
Note "justify." It's not that they don't think they can raise prices, they just don't think it is worth the backlash that would ensue. Perhaps they've learned from their management of TFC.

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01-02-2012, 04:56 AM
  #11
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After Quebec and Hamilton there's nowhere else to add in Canada. You might try Markham instead of Hamilton, but I don't see both Hamilton+Markham being added. Rangers+Devils+Islanders in the greater NYC area isn't working out. I don't see 3 teams working in the GTA, either. The Islanders

With Quebec and Hamilton added, I will fully support more sunbelt expansion experiments. Yes, the Coyotes have been "an unmitigated disaster". But LA, and Dallas (when not running around headless due to Hicks' other "investments" destroying him) and San Jose and Anaheim have been quite successful.

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01-02-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's nice to see the actual figures however.


Some figures (ticket revenue):
Montreal - $2.0+ MM
Toronto - 2.0
Vancouver - $1.7
NY Rangers - 1.6
Calgary - ?
Ottawa - ?
Edmonton - ?

Chicago - $1.1
Pittsburgh - $1.1
Boston - $1.1
Detroit - $1-1.1 (according to me)
Washington - $1.0

Phoenix - $420K
NY Isles - $392K
I am going to guess that Calgary and Edmonton are both in the $1.3-1.4M range. I would expect Ottawa to be around the same numbers as you have estimated for the Wings.

BY the way, what happened to the leaked numbers from the past. I could not find them on the stickied thread. (I think I still have a copy of at least the earliest leaked document if you want to add it).

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01-02-2012, 06:39 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Habs fans are getting jerked around.
I think it has more to do with the relative size of the arenas than it does the absolute price of the tickets. The Bell Centre has a capacity of 21273. The ACC has a capacity of 18800. That means the Bell Centre is 13% larger. TO still has the highest ticket prices I would guess.

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01-02-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's nice to see the actual figures however.


Some figures (ticket revenue):
Montreal - $2.0+ MM
Toronto - 2.0
Vancouver - $1.7
NY Rangers - 1.6
Calgary - ?
Ottawa - ?
Edmonton - ?

Chicago - $1.1
Pittsburgh - $1.1
Boston - $1.1
Detroit - $1-1.1 (according to me)
Washington - $1.0

Phoenix - $420K
NY Isles - $392K
So if my math is correct, the average ticket revenue for a Canadian team is $1.626m/game, and $813k for an American team.

Does anyone really believe that the half dozen or so bottom dwellers really add to the American TV viewing audience? Isn't this the main purpose of their existence?

Being a Hamiltonian, I wonder what the Buffalo numbers are, and I love reading this.

Quote:
“There will be a lot of people using these numbers to argue that the league would be better off with teams in Quebec City and Hamilton, Ont...,” said Marc Ganis, president of a Chicago sports advisory firm that has advised the buyers of several NHL franchises...

... "I think the argument for more Canadian teams definitely has merit."


Last edited by Hamilton Tigers: 01-02-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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01-02-2012, 08:45 AM
  #15
htpwn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It's nice to see the actual figures however.


Some figures (ticket revenue):
Montreal - $2.0+ MM
Toronto - 2.0
Vancouver - $1.7
NY Rangers - 1.6
Calgary - ?
Ottawa - ?
Edmonton - ?

Chicago - $1.1
Pittsburgh - $1.1
Boston - $1.1
Detroit - $1-1.1 (according to me)
Washington - $1.0

Phoenix - $420K
NY Isles - $392K
Team 2010-2011 single-game ticket revenue 2010-2011 total ticket revenue 2007-2008 single-game ticket revenue Percentage Change
Chicago $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $500,000 120%
Washington $1,000,000 $41,000,000 $550,000 82%
Pittsburgh $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $800,000 37.5%
Boston $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $800,000 37.5%
N.Y. Rangers $1,600,000 $65,600,000 $1,300,000 23%
Vancouver $1,700,000 $69,700,000 $1,400,000 21.4%
Montreal $2,000,000 $82,000,000 $1,700,000 17.6%
San Jose $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $950,000 15.8%
Calgary $1,500,000 $61,500,000 $1,300,000 15.4%
Los Angeles $750,000 $30,750,000 $650,000 15.4%
Detroit $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $1,000,000 10%
Philadelphia $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $1,000,000 10%
Edmonton $1,300,000 $53,300,000 $1,200,000 8.3%
St. Louis $650,000 $26,650,000 $600,000 8.3%
Buffalo $800,000 $32,800,000 $750,000 6.6%
Toronto $2,000,000 $82,000,000 $1,900,000 5.3%
Nashville $575,000 $23,575,000 $600,000 -4.2%
Carolina $660,000 $27,060,000 $700,000 -5.7%
Phoenix $420,000 $17,220,000 $450,000 -6.7%
Florida $460,000 $18,860,000 $500,000 -8%
Ottawa $1,110,000 $45,100,000 $1,200,000 -8.3%
Minnesota $1,000,000 $41,000,000 $1,100,000 -9.1%
Anaheim $750,000 $30,750,000 $900,000 -16.7%
Columbus $660,000 $27,060,000 $800,000 -17.5%
New Jersey $700,000 $28,700,000 $850,000 -17.6%
Colorado $750,000 $30,750,000 $1,000,000 -25%
N.Y. Islanders $392,000 $16,072,000 $550,000 -28.7%
Dallas $660,000 $27,060,000 $950,000 -30.5%
Atlanta $330,000 $13,530,000 $550,000 -40%
Tampa Bay $440,000 $18,040,000 $800,000 -45%

From the print version.


Last edited by htpwn: 01-02-2012 at 08:53 AM.
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Old
01-02-2012, 08:58 AM
  #16
King Woodballs
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Winnipeg is pretty well on the same plain as Edm Cgy and Ott.
I think I worked it out to be around $1.2mm per game.

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01-02-2012, 09:13 AM
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Some perspective for those who think Seattle would be a vastly superior market to Quebec City.

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01-02-2012, 09:14 AM
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Nobody ever factors in how mismanaged the Islanders have been for 20 years. They just say that 3 teams is too many for NY metro area. If the Islanders had played in any Canadian city for the last 20 years and have been managed the exact same way I think the fans would be in an uproar. All of the financial problems have NOTHING to do with the location of the team. All USA markets are similar in that when a team stinks it up for a long time the fans stop showing up. This would be true for Boston, Philly, Detroit, NYR and Chicago. That's just the way it is. The only thing is that fans of those teams never have to endure years and years of failure. All of those teams are competitive year after year with the occasional bad season now and again. Also they are well managed. I know that hockey is bigger in Canada than in America but everything isn't always what it seems to be.

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01-02-2012, 09:20 AM
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Looking at how individual teams have developed from 07/08, it is naturally no surprise see four American teams (CHI, PIT, WAS & BOS) that have turned their on-ice fortunes around during the time frame top the list.

Dallas has also fallen harder than I would have thought.

Surprised to see Nashville in red (in terms of change) but it probably makes sense due the reference season being before the Purge.

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01-02-2012, 09:22 AM
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I think the reason people don't think 3 teams in NY/NJ will ever work is that let's say the Islanders get their new arena and start winning. Are they just basically going to trade places with the Devils? The Devils have been run extremely well for those same 20 years but still were never constantly sellout capable and have had financial issues from time to time.

Chicago fans would probably disagree with you on never having dealt with lousy ownership as well. Heck, you see it in that table from their 2007-08 revenues when Dollar Bill had just died before the season started.

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01-02-2012, 09:30 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Team 2010-2011 single-game ticket revenue 2010-2011 total ticket revenue 2007-2008 single-game ticket revenue Percentage Change
Chicago $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $500,000 120%
Washington $1,000,000 $41,000,000 $550,000 82%
Pittsburgh $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $800,000 37.5%
Boston $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $800,000 37.5%
N.Y. Rangers $1,600,000 $65,600,000 $1,300,000 23%
Vancouver $1,700,000 $69,700,000 $1,400,000 21.4%
Montreal $2,000,000 $82,000,000 $1,700,000 17.6%
San Jose $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $950,000 15.8%
Calgary $1,500,000 $61,500,000 $1,300,000 15.4%
Los Angeles $750,000 $30,750,000 $650,000 15.4%
Detroit $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $1,000,000 10%
Philadelphia $1,100,000 $45,100,000 $1,000,000 10%
Edmonton $1,300,000 $53,300,000 $1,200,000 8.3%
St. Louis $650,000 $26,650,000 $600,000 8.3%
Buffalo $800,000 $32,800,000 $750,000 6.6%
Toronto $2,000,000 $82,000,000 $1,900,000 5.3%
Nashville $575,000 $23,575,000 $600,000 -4.2%
Carolina $660,000 $27,060,000 $700,000 -5.7%
Phoenix $420,000 $17,220,000 $450,000 -6.7%
Florida $460,000 $18,860,000 $500,000 -8%
Ottawa $1,110,000 $45,100,000 $1,200,000 -8.3%
Minnesota $1,000,000 $41,000,000 $1,100,000 -9.1%
Anaheim $750,000 $30,750,000 $900,000 -16.7%
Columbus $660,000 $27,060,000 $800,000 -17.5%
New Jersey $700,000 $28,700,000 $850,000 -17.6%
Colorado $750,000 $30,750,000 $1,000,000 -25%
N.Y. Islanders $392,000 $16,072,000 $550,000 -28.7%
Dallas $660,000 $27,060,000 $950,000 -30.5%
Atlanta $330,000 $13,530,000 $550,000 -40%
Tampa Bay $440,000 $18,040,000 $800,000 -45%

From the print version.
I'm not sure I buy those 2007/2008 numbers. They don't jibe with the leaked Globe numbers. And since the Oilers have had ticket price increases of at least 5% every year an 8.3% increase over 3 years does not make much sense.

(Note: See the post below. I am an idiot...I completely missed the big jump in the $CDN from 2006-2007).


Last edited by Fourier: 01-02-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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01-02-2012, 09:43 AM
  #22
htpwn
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I'm not sure I buy those 2007/2008 numbers. They don't jibe with the leaked Globe numbers. And since the Oilers have had ticket price increases of at least 5% every year an 8.3% increase over 3 years does not make much sense.
The 2007-2008 numbers are simply copied from their report three years ago.


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01-02-2012, 09:59 AM
  #23
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This is ticket revenue only, right? That's not the reason that some people think places like Winnipeg or Quebec City might have issues. The issue remains corporate support and TV markets.

You see the NHL trying to put more and more games on national TV, and there is a good reason for that ... the more they can split evenly among 30 teams, the smaller the local revenues like that are important.

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01-02-2012, 10:00 AM
  #24
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These figures are really quite remarkable in showing strength for interest in the NHL. Its worth noting that the aggregate numbers increased 2007-2011 during a major recession.

Seattle is the most logical remaining US city, in my opinion. As a border city, it would likely benefit from cross over traffic (but probably not as much as Buffalo or Detroit), and it would have a geographic rivalry with Vancouver. That said, Hamilton and Quebec are really good candidates.

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01-02-2012, 10:19 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
This is ticket revenue only, right? That's not the reason that some people think places like Winnipeg or Quebec City might have issues. The issue remains corporate support and TV markets.

You see the NHL trying to put more and more games on national TV, and there is a good reason for that ... the more they can split evenly among 30 teams, the smaller the local revenues like that are important.
Not in Quebec City. With Quebecor at the helm, we don't have to worry about TV and as for as corporate support is concerned, Quebec City has more corporations that it used to have in the 90s. It MIGHT be a slight problem, but TV certainly won't be. Especially since the owner of the team will own the TV stations that will broadcast the games; that's a recipe for success.

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