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2011 off-season: Laura Frasor back to Toronto - Offseason Deemed Success!

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01-23-2012, 08:03 PM
  #901
The Nemesis
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lol Jose Mesa

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01-23-2012, 08:04 PM
  #902
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Their offense just couldn't deal with the Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine combo, I guess. ATL's pitching was always so dirty..

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01-23-2012, 08:21 PM
  #903
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Love the Vizquel signing!!!


Gives us a legit back-up infielder that can play 2B, SS and 3B all very well.

ANd the best part..no Mike McCoy or Luis Valbuena.

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01-23-2012, 08:26 PM
  #904
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Not trying to incite a flame war but how many of the Rogers apologists will be willing to stand up and take a good beating from the 'fake fans' at the end of the season if the Jays end up with 80 wins or less in 2012?

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01-23-2012, 08:27 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
I got some mail from Rogers to tell me that the Prices are going up for Internet and Cable. I guess because Rogers decided to purchase the garbage Leafs, we all have to pay for that debt. I just hope they don't try this game if they increase Jays payroll.
You realize you have other options right? you don't need to stay with rogers.

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01-23-2012, 08:27 PM
  #906
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Mike DiGiovanna of the Los Angeles Times reports that the Angels, Orioles, Phillies and Blue Jays are pursuing free agent reliever Francisco Cordero.

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01-23-2012, 08:29 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
Not trying to incite a flame war but how many of the Rogers apologists will be willing to stand up and take a good beating from the 'fake fans' at the end of the season if the Jays end up with 80 wins or less in 2012?
I'm far from a Rogers apologist, but they have given AA more than enough payroll to get 80 wins this year.

Also that Morrow deal surprises me a bit. Figured there'd be an extra option or two.

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01-23-2012, 08:29 PM
  #908
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Love the Vizquel signing!!!


Gives us a legit back-up infielder that can play 2B, SS and 3B all very well.

ANd the best part..no Mike McCoy or Luis Valbuena.
Mike McCoy provides a bigger on-field contribution than Vizquel at this point...

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01-23-2012, 08:30 PM
  #909
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Not trying to incite a flame war but how many of the Rogers apologists will be willing to stand up and take a good beating from the 'fake fans' at the end of the season if the Jays end up with 80 wins or less in 2012?
me.

Injuries aside, this is a 85-90 win ball club as constructed right now and you can quote me on this at the end of the season.

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01-23-2012, 08:31 PM
  #910
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I'm far from a Rogers apologist, but they have given AA more than enough payroll to get 80 wins this year.
According to Cot's if the Morrow numbers are true we've cut payroll by around $4M for the on-field product compared to last year.

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01-23-2012, 08:32 PM
  #911
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According to Cot's if the Morrow numbers are true we've cut payroll by around $4M for the on-field product compared to last year.
Does that count the 5.5 Million buyout to Teehan?

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01-23-2012, 08:33 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
According to Cot's if the Morrow numbers are true we've cut payroll by around $4M for the on-field product compared to last year.
This team isn't worse than last year's, ergo I would be disappointed if they won less games than last year.

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01-23-2012, 08:33 PM
  #913
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So, I guess that means that the earlier acquisition of Luis Valbuena is now moot. Seriously though, where are we going to find all these roster spots? 7-man bullpen (which seems most probable) means 4 bench spots. Mathis is one, guaranteed. One of Snider/Thames is probably another if one of the two doesn't get traded to resolve the LF battle. Rajai Davis is probably the 3rd just to give them a speed demon pinch-runner and guy who can come off the bench and play all 3 OF spots (kinda). That means 1 spot left for one of Vizquel, Valbuena, Francisco, Cooper, McCoy, and maybe a couple more to fight it out.

I was reading earlier that Francisco's contract is non-guaranteed. I wonder if Vizquel's will be the same.
I seriously doubt one of those two players rides the pine for any considerable amount of time. One of them will start in AAA, one will play with the jays.

Bench should look like this: Francisco, Davis, Mathis, Vizquel.

I like the Morrow signing, assuming it's confirmed. He's a little more unpredictable than say Romero, considering he hasn't been a starter for very long, so a shorter deal to see how he progresses is a good thing.

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01-23-2012, 08:35 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
I seriously doubt one of those two players rides the pine for any considerable amount of time. One of them will start in AAA, one will play with the jays.

Bench should look like this: Francisco, Davis, Mathis, Vizquel.
Agreed.

Thames/Snider won't be a platoon situation, it will be one or the other in LF.

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01-23-2012, 08:36 PM
  #915
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Does that count the 5.5 Million buyout to Teehan?
No it doesn't.

Doesnt really affect the numbers since it basically comes out a wash with the money we sent to LAA to take Wells.

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01-23-2012, 08:39 PM
  #916
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Sounds like Vizquel is a minor league deal which is good. He pretty much brings what McCoy and that other guy will bring with the exception of some veteran leadership.

I really like the Morrow's extension. He is poised to have a breakout season where his ERA finally matches his ERA. I would have expected another club option but taking up potentially 2 years of Morrow's FA is a good deal.

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01-23-2012, 08:41 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
According to Cot's if the Morrow numbers are true we've cut payroll by around $4M for the on-field product compared to last year.
funny thing is.. this team is probably better then the one we started off with last year

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01-23-2012, 08:43 PM
  #918
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Rosenthal has it too. I love the signing, really I do. Age is just a #. If you can play, you can play.
He can't play though. What he was known for (his fielding) is not even average anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
Not trying to incite a flame war but how many of the Rogers apologists will be willing to stand up and take a good beating from the 'fake fans' at the end of the season if the Jays end up with 80 wins or less in 2012?
I'd rather be a 'Roger apologist', whatever that means, than a fan who lacks the insight towards seeing that there are alternative ways to building a winning product; i.e. a farm system, through trade, player development, scouting, and drafting.

Prove you can win, and then spend. It is not a complex process.

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Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
According to Cot's if the Morrow numbers are true we've cut payroll by around $4M for the on-field product compared to last year.
The team is better than they were last year, unless you can prove otherwise. In fact, why is this even relevant?

It's like cutting costs while improving the product, at the same time, is a bad thing.

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01-23-2012, 08:43 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
So, I guess that means that the earlier acquisition of Luis Valbuena is now moot. Seriously though, where are we going to find all these roster spots? 7-man bullpen (which seems most probable) means 4 bench spots. Mathis is one, guaranteed. One of Snider/Thames is probably another if one of the two doesn't get traded to resolve the LF battle. Rajai Davis is probably the 3rd just to give them a speed demon pinch-runner and guy who can come off the bench and play all 3 OF spots (kinda). That means 1 spot left for one of Vizquel, Valbuena, Francisco, Cooper, McCoy, and maybe a couple more to fight it out.

I was reading earlier that Francisco's contract is non-guaranteed. I wonder if Vizquel's will be the same.
One of Snider/Thames will make the team and the other gets sent to the minors. Francisco and Davis will likely be the two OF's with Mathis and one of McCoy/Valbuena/Vizquez taking p the utility role. Not a chance Cooper makes the roster unless Lind goes down.

I like it though. A lots of depth and if a guy isn't working out, someone can replace him. There should be some more platooning as well.

I would still like to see the Jays trade or sign a starter that can give us innings.

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01-23-2012, 08:45 PM
  #920
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funny thing is.. this team is probably better then the one we started off with last year
1 CF Rajai Davis
2 SS Yunel Escobar
3 RF Jose Bautista
4 1B Adam Lind*
5 2B Aaron Hill
6 3B Edwin Encarnacion
7 LF Travis Snider*
8 DH Juan Rivera
9 C J.P. Arencibia

Bench
C Jose Molina
IF John McDonald
IF Jayson Nix
IF/OF Mike McCoy

Starting Rotation
1 LHP Ricky Romero
2 RHP Kyle Drabek
3 LHP Brett Cecil
4 RHP Jesse Litsch
5 LHP Jo-Jo Reyes

Bullpen
CL RHP Jon Rauch
SU RHP Jason Frasor
SU RHP Shawn Camp
MID LHP Marc Rzepczynski
MID RHP Casey Janssen
MID LHP David Purcey
LR RHP Carlos Villanueva

I would say so.

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01-23-2012, 08:49 PM
  #921
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You missed Morrow

Still better than last year though

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01-23-2012, 08:53 PM
  #922
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The team is better than they were last year, unless you can prove otherwise. In fact, why is this even relevant?

It's like cutting costs while improving the product, at the same time, is a bad thing.
It's relevant because the conversation was explicitly about Rogers giving AA "enough money" to get 81+ wins.

I cant prove the team is any worse or any better, and neither can you. Conclusion???

Following your logic.. lets say the team goes 80-82... in what way are they "an improved product" over last season?

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01-23-2012, 09:01 PM
  #923
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can anyone give a starting day line up for this year? to follow up with woodmans?

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01-23-2012, 09:04 PM
  #924
theaub
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Originally Posted by TheWiseguy View Post
It's relevant because the conversation was explicitly about Rogers giving AA "enough money" to get 81+ wins.

I cant prove the team is any worse or any better, and neither can you. Conclusion???

Following your logic.. lets say the team goes 80-82... in what way are they "an improved product" over last season?
Well according to your logic if the Jays won 95 games they wouldn't be better since they didn't spend more money...

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01-23-2012, 09:05 PM
  #925
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can anyone give a starting day line up for this year? to follow up with woodmans?

(batting order not finalized)
SS Escobar
LF Snider/Thames
RF Bautista
1B Lind
DH Encarnacion
CF Rasmus
2B Johnson
3B Lawrie
C Arencibia

Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Alvarez
Mcgowen/Drabek

CL - Santos
Jansen
Oliver
Frasor
CV
Litsch
Perez/Carreno/Drabek

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