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Old
01-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #51
loudi94
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
While I'm not entirely against it as an idea, I think the GM should decide the coach and I don't think they've got next season's GM yet.

Also, if that was the case, why the hell didn't the bring in the AHL staff? They have a francophone behind the bench in Hamilton who could have filled in to the end of the year without the drama.
I think Roy being chosen goes above PG's head. I also think that management underestimated the reaction to the appointment of an anglo "interim" coach. I also think PG will remain as GM. If he can/did present Mr. Molson with his plan for the future and he likes it, he will stay. The under performers are largely from Gainey's reign. PG can point to his trades and acquisitions and make a case he's trying to accomplish something. I think depending on the playoff picture, we may see a house cleaning (again) at the deadline. I also think PG know we need to get bigger. Unless I'm mistaken they did try to land Rupp as a UFA. I see them going after some of Parros, Prust, Tooto, Gaustad or Thornton to change the team identity.

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01-02-2012, 03:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
He was Mr. Everything with Martin. Pleks was used as our 2 way centre to score points and shutdown the opposition's best. He only started receiving media recognition for it in the 2010 playoffs when he was regularly matched up against ovechkin or crosby.

Pleks can play against these guys, he's proven so in the past. Pleks' issue imo is that he gets very down when things are rough. We saw that in 08/09 when he scored about 40 points when coming off a 70 point season and called himself a little girl. You can see in his body language right now that he is extremely frustrated, and that is just making things worse for him. He's gotta develop some sort of even keel outlook so the down times dont affect his mental state so much.
Yes, he can play against them.

But he's not a god, he cant outscore them if he has to face the best players every night starting in his own zone without any help (Eller with Nokelainen or Darche, thats not really the best shutdown unit of the league) and without a solid defense behind him.

That was not the case in the past.
The distribution of his zone starts and his shifts, the assignations, they're not on the same level than last year or the year before.
The role of that line is much more defensive, in order to allow the Desharnais' line to crush their respective opponents.

Since the role is different, the expectations should be different.
But as a lot of people here are quite blind, they dont see that and they're just missing the point.

And i dont trust Molson at all either.

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01-02-2012, 03:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post

Darche is a 4th liner, Gomez is injured, Kaberle did play less than 10 games with us, they should not be in the conversation.
What if we can still remember before Gomez was injured when he was playing?

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01-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #54
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Cammy had a baby before the start of the season. Plekanec had a baby during the season.


Gomez broke up with his girlfriend last year and she's now having what? A BABY.


Need I say more?

I'm telling you, it's the ****ing babies.

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01-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
What if we can still remember before Gomez was injured when he was playing?
Maybe that you should look at our record since Gomez is out then.
Our numbers, scoring chances etc are just diving since the game he left, injured. And even if he has some flaws, its not a coincidence.

He's massively overpaid and cant shoot, yes. But he's far from useless, and its quite stupid to blame a notoriously overpaid (how convenient and superficial is that, honestly ?) player who did play at best 15 of the 40 games we played this year.

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01-02-2012, 03:13 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Who are these non-performing vets ?

Gomez and Gionta are injured.
Gill is hardly a first-pairing guy.
Moen is playing above the expectations, Kostitsyn is playing at the level he's used to. Cole seems to be a good signing so far.
Plekanec and Cammalleri are used to have horrific matchups, mostly because the other good defensive players are out, and their offensive numbers are killed, logically, because of that.
Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gionta and Gomez have all been mediocre during the majority of the games they have played this season. I don't know which games you're watching because I thought it's pretty obvious those are the guys who should be playing better but have been more than underwhelming for the most part.

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01-02-2012, 03:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Well it started with Molson's statement. He said basically the same thing and from that point forward it was clear that Cunnyworth had no chance. I feel bad for him in this, but for them to double down on it today is just once again twisting the knife.

Complete lack of class sums up this organization right now. They're seriously hard to like and we're starting to see that show up. I've never seen more empty seats in the arena than this year, despite it being supposedly sold out. It's BS.

Honestly, if I had to guess, I'd take this further. Things started going sideways the moment Molson took over. First forcing Boivin out, albeit slowly. Then the Gauthier/Gainey mess after Gainey reshaped the team. Now this.

Organizations inherit the personality of their bosses and to me you have to trace this to the top. Molson is responsible, but given we're stuck with him, let's hope he knows enough to step back and put some people in charge who know what they're doing.

Doubt it though.

Bold prediction: Molson is the GM within 2-3 years.

Second prediction: If it happens, it's the day I pick a new team to cheer for.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dallas Cowboys.
Right on!

A fish rots from the head down.

My hope is that in the off-season Molson hires a good GM and doesn't interfere at all with his job. If Molson ever takes over as GM then I start cheering for someone else too.

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01-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
I cannot believe the things he said about Cunnyworth.

I realize there is drama in the media, and frankly, I'm of the opinion the coach should speak french if only to cut the circus this creates...

But he basically just fired Cunnyworth in that press conference. There is a complete lack of respect for the team, the coach and the, frankly, the season in his comments. You cannot throw your coach under the bus like this. He said that being bilingual is a key requirement of the next coach and that Cunnyworth is only temporary.

If that is the case, why the hell is he there? How is he supposed to command any respect from his players when it's clear that anything short of a random Cup run isn't going to keep him behind the bench (and I doubt that would be enough).

The comments may quell some media members for a week or two, but it was a horrible thing to say about an employee who is struggling to turn things around right now. We all kind of knew he was likely a lame duck coach, but I've never seen a team make it official like that. Absurd.
Cunnyworth is being hang out to dry. I feel bad for him

1st he is shoved out to the crazy wild dogs called the montreal media
2nd he has less then 12 hours to get ready for a game
3rd He faces a long road trip with some pretty hot teams on it
4th The team owner says he's just a intern and has like no hope of staying
5th The GM says sorry because he hired a non french speaking coach

So to put this in all for him to keep his job he needs to turn this team that is poorly build into a winning club and make it not just in the playoffs but deep into the playoffs just to have a good chance at keeping his job

For a team that was once known for it's respect they aren't showing it

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01-02-2012, 03:17 PM
  #59
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you guys are so conspiracy theory based. Molson will never be the GM lol.

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01-02-2012, 03:21 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by 76ftw View Post
you guys are so conspiracy theory based. Molson will never be the GM lol.
So far all I've seen from him is a promise not to change things dramatically followed by immediately forcing out one of the most respected and successful team Presidents to replace him with.... himself.

Not saying he'll be the GM tomorrow, but I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if this is the long term goal.

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01-02-2012, 03:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Yes, he can play against them.

But he's not a god, he cant outscore them if he has to face the best players every night starting in his own zone without any help (Eller with Nokelainen or Darche, thats not really the best shutdown unit of the league) and without a solid defense behind him.

That was not the case in the past.
The distribution of his zone starts and his shifts, the assignations, they're not on the same level than last year or the year before.
The role of that line is much more defensive, in order to allow the Desharnais' line to crush their respective opponents.

Since the role is different, the expectations should be different.
But as a lot of people here are quite blind, they dont see that and they're just missing the point.

And i dont trust Molson at all either.
I started not trusting molson after he took over for Pierre Boivin.
I felt more trusted with him ten with molson.
What Pierre Boivin done with the team is pretty good seeing when he took over the team the books were a mess,bell center was dead,the team was a mass,prospects pool was pretty bad he did a lot


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01-02-2012, 03:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Plekanec, Cammalleri, Gionta and Gomez have all been mediocre during the majority of the games they have played this season. I don't know which games you're watching because I thought it's pretty obvious those are the guys who should be playing better but have been more than underwhelming for the most part.
I already answered to this, but the problem is that their role is different since last year, and not helping them offensively, and your expectations are still the same.

(Un)Surprisingly, the vast majority, if not every single player, near or actually at the top of the column for the statistics usually connected to the difficulty of the matchups, is having a "underwhelming year".

Simple fact, when Plekanec is starting 50% of his shifts in his own zone, he is able to produce around 70 points. Ok.
When he is starting 60% of his shifts in his own zone, and against a better competition than he was previously facing, whats going to happen to his offensive numbers ?

I dont want to be negative, but i dont think you are going to appreciate them.

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01-02-2012, 03:36 PM
  #63
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Regardless of what he said to him, which I admit would help, he didn't make it clear to the media. So to me, it just looks like someone caving to media pressure and throwing a loyal soldier under the bus.

As I said in another thread, at this point, I'd fire them all. Gauthier for cause, everyone else partly just to give the organization a fresh start and Cunnyworth for humanitarian reasons.
I agree. I think it's a disgrace how PG has managed this whole throwing of Cunneyworth under the bus saga. It should be enough on it's own to get PG fired imo, unless of course, it was molson that fired JM in the first place.

Repeatedly saying he is only a temporary solution and that he basically has no shot of coming back next year is ridiculous. This organization his sunk to a new low. I think everything Pierre McGuire has said about Pierre Gauthier is true. He's a dirt bag imo.

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01-02-2012, 03:38 PM
  #64
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personally, I agree with the trickle down effect (not the capitalism one). It's easy to blame people, but a systemic snowballing problem has been the major reason behind this season. The vets not performing is included in that, but it's a result of a couple of players being out at any given time.

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01-02-2012, 04:04 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
I already answered to this, but the problem is that their role is different since last year, and not helping them offensively, and your expectations are still the same.

(Un)Surprisingly, the vast majority, if not every single player, near or actually at the top of the column for the statistics usually connected to the difficulty of the matchups, is having a "underwhelming year".

Simple fact, when Plekanec is starting 50% of his shifts in his own zone, he is able to produce around 70 points. Ok.
When he is starting 60% of his shifts in his own zone, and against a better competition than he was previously facing, whats going to happen to his offensive numbers ?

I dont want to be negative, but i dont think you are going to appreciate them.
How is Plekanec facing better opposition than last year? Our top line for the most part of this season has been Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole and the Plekanec-Cammalleri line has had to face opposing teams' third lines and are producing even worse.

So his offensive numbers are much worse while facing much easier opponents, same as Cammalleri. This should indicate they are having bad seasons, as well as their obvious lack of creating anything offensively most of the time.

The only NHL vets who are keeping this team afloat right now are Cole, Moen and Gorges. The four players I mentioned have been having mediocre seasons and their offensive/defensive duties have not changed or even gotten easier. That is what is the difference between winning and losing in so many games: We need our vets to play better.

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01-02-2012, 04:12 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
Cammy had a baby before the start of the season. Plekanec had a baby during the season.


Gomez broke up with his girlfriend last year and she's now having what? A BABY.


Need I say more?

I'm telling you, it's the ****ing babies.
that's one theory i can buy

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01-02-2012, 04:16 PM
  #67
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While swimming in unknown waters one should have a thick skin possibly chain-link for the big-biters that may encircle you in Atlantic Ocean coastal islands.This advice should be heeded by all,not just novice but experts also.So goes the inevitable BS that creates an eddy about the Montreal Canadiens and resembles a toilet bowl moreso than the usual fishbowl most people have come to expect.Tiresome for a fan,I cannot imagine what it must be like for someone whose job it is working in that milieu.As a fan the obvious doesn't elude,I stand in favor of the Habs finally being able to get a draft pick and a player whose talents can overcome the useless bickering of those that could care more about winning arguments than winning Championships.Please let the team be about hockey and not politics for the next five hundred years,thus giving way to entertainment on ice instead of in a toiletbowl.For the sake of having a fanbase, for not many would say watching the disgraceful media stoked furor is worth being a fan overall.

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01-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #68
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Aside from the politician speech made by PG, the only fail was the french media. They are embarassing, and I wonder if they realize they are now making this city the laughing stock of hockey.

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01-02-2012, 04:18 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
How is Plekanec facing better opposition than last year? Our top line for the most part of this season has been Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole and the Plekanec-Cammalleri line has had to face opposing teams' third lines and are producing even worse.

So his offensive numbers are much worse while facing much easier opponents, same as Cammalleri. This should indicate they are having bad seasons, as well as their obvious lack of creating anything offensively most of the time.

The only NHL vets who are keeping this team afloat right now are Cole, Moen and Gorges. The four players I mentioned have been having mediocre seasons and their offensive/defensive duties have not changed or even gotten easier. That is what is the difference between winning and losing in so many games: We need our vets to play better.
You are either drunk or clueless.

You do realize that if you are not too lazy and your in good shape, you can check the play-by-play on NHL.com of each game, if your still thinking its true after actually watching the games, and erase that terribly wrong idea of your head ?

That there is some dudes that are tracking that kind of things and they're just totally disagreeing with what you're saying ? (Behindthenet, Habs Eyes on The Prize, En Attendant les Nordiques etc...)

Desharnais' line was on the ice against 2nd liners, if not 3rd liners during most of the games. (And this is partially why they're successful, by the way). Plekanec had to face the best players of the opposition in an even more difficult situation that he was used to in the past.

Anyway, what you just said is really so wrong that its pointless to try to explain whats actually going on.

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01-02-2012, 04:21 PM
  #70
loudi94
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Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
While swimming in unknown waters one should have a thick skin possibly chain-link for the big-biters that may encircle you in Atlantic Ocean coastal islands.This advice should be heeded by all,not just novice but experts also.So goes the inevitable BS that creates an eddy about the Montreal Canadiens and resembles a toilet bowl moreso than the usual fishbowl most people have come to expect.Tiresome for a fan,I cannot imagine what it must be like for someone whose job it is working in that milieu.As a fan the obvious doesn't elude,I stand in favor of the Habs finally being able to get a draft pick and a player whose talents can overcome the useless bickering of those that could care more about winning arguments than winning Championships.Please let the team be about hockey and not politics for the next five hundred years,thus giving way to entertainment on ice instead of in a toiletbowl.For the sake of having a fanbase, for not many would say watching the disgraceful media stoked furor is worth being a fan overall.
Bear in mind that there is also no better place to play in the world when you're winning.

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01-02-2012, 04:53 PM
  #71
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sigh...

just when PG goes out and does something that I can actually feel good about (signing Gorges long term), he goes and opens his mouth and reminds me why, above and beyond his failures as a GM from a on-ice pov, I really dislike his personality & approach.


managers who pass the buck, and make excuses, aren't worth ****... if you can't stand up, be a man, and take ownership for the mess you've created (both directly and indirectly), GTFO


sad that an organization once considered the class of the NHL, both for it's on-ice excellence AND it's organizational excellence, is now run by such a weak individual.

longer Molson keeps PG in place, the more that says about him and his ability to build a successful team.

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01-02-2012, 05:08 PM
  #72
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One part that really hit me during that PC was when PG said : Ce qui nous motive c'est l'appât du gain, la compétition.

Loosely translated as : What motivates us is monetary gains, competition.

It seemed like he was enumerating synonyms but yeah... They're two different things. And if the first thing that jumps to his mind is money when making moves it's not a good sign. Theoretically, your first motivation should be a passion for your job. The need to do the right thing that comes from within. Not just money in and out of itself. Sure the first goal of an organization is to have bigger profits but the motivation driving individuals can't only be that or they won't be the right fit. You need people who have a passion for what they're doing. That isn't really too surprising to me though. I always felt like PG was missing the point a little even though he was a competent guy. I now know what's wrong with him and why he's been a loser all this time and always will be.

Not to mention I really got the vibe he was trying to deflect blame and save his own hide. When he was enumerating the 3 ways to turn the ship around.. last was management (all of management not just him) doing everything possible.. but saying it as if everything had been done already.

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01-02-2012, 05:13 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
One part that really hit me during that PC was when PG said : Ce qui nous motive c'est l'appât du gain, la compétition.

Loosely translated as : What motivates us is monetary gains, competition.

It seemed like he was enumerating synonyms but yeah... They're two different things. And if the first thing that jumps to his mind is money when making moves it's not a good sign. Theoretically, your first motivation should be a passion for your job. The need to do the right thing that comes from within. Not just money in and out of itself. Sure the first goal of an organization is to have bigger profits but the motivation driving individuals can't only be that or they won't be the right fit. You need people who have a passion for what they're doing. That isn't really too surprising to me though. I always felt like PG was missing the point a little even though he was a competent guy. I now know what's wrong with him and why he's been a loser all this time and always will be.

Not to mention I really got the vibe he was trying to deflect blame and save his own hide. When he was enumerating the 3 ways to turn the ship around.. last was management (all of management not just him) doing everything possible.. but saying it as if everything had been done already.
weirdo has no business being a GM at all, let alone montreal. he was in over his head before the lockout and in a market like montreal where he was essentially given the job by boivin, he's been a dysfunctional disaster with both public relations and professional competency

when gainey was stepping down, he wanted brisebois, boivin said 'gauthier' - that's from an insider source so you can take or leave it.
ps why do people think boivin is gone? i'll tell you why because he was an adviser for peladeau bid to buy from Gillette..so he bet on wrong horse and was fortunately canned

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01-02-2012, 05:16 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
One part that really hit me during that PC was when PG said : Ce qui nous motive c'est l'appât du gain, la compétition.

Loosely translated as : What motivates us is monetary gains, competition.

It seemed like he was enumerating synonyms but yeah... They're two different things. And if the first thing that jumps to his mind is money when making moves it's not a good sign. Theoretically, your first motivation should be a passion for your job. The need to do the right thing that comes from within. Not just money in and out of itself. Sure the first goal of an organization is to have bigger profits but the motivation driving individuals can't only be that or they won't be the right fit. You need people who have a passion for what they're doing. That isn't really too surprising to me though. I always felt like PG was missing the point a little even though he was a competent guy. I now know what's wrong with him and why he's been a loser all this time and always will be.

Not to mention I really got the vibe he was trying to deflect blame and save his own hide. When he was enumerating the 3 ways to turn the ship around.. last was management (all of management not just him) doing everything possible.. but saying it as if everything had been done already.

I don't think I've ever heard a GM taking any kind of blame for sinking of a ship, not even after getting fired.

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01-02-2012, 05:34 PM
  #75
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I don't think I've ever heard a GM taking any kind of blame for sinking of a ship, not even after getting fired.
There are multiple ways to deflect blame. Some are way more obvious than others. That said, I agree, I don't expect him to commit seppuku in front of everyone but how he did it wasn't exactly a rallying cry. Leadership starts from the top. Those questions were obvious, he knew he'd get asked some variations of those questions. He had to have answers prepared that would communicate exactly the right vibe to the rest of the org and the fans. Those answers definitely didn't communicate anything good to me as a fan. But I'm just one guy with one opinion.

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