Do you know how much salary we'd have to take back? No, you don't. Do you know how big of a raise our RFAs will get? No, you don't. Do you know what the cap will be in 2013? No, you don't. Again, just assumptions on your part that it will work out.
I get your point and I don't disagree that the Rangers will explore the option. What I'm saying is that ultimately, I don't believe the Rangers will sign him due to the uncertainty of the CBA. Maybe I'm wrong, but posting the numbers at this point doesn't prove anything because so many of those numbers are unknown.
That's my point.
Well, what I CAN assume is that if Dubinsky and Boyle are traded as per my suggestion (which is merely an option for the future and doesn't even have to be done this next season), for cap purposes, I think it's a very safe assumption that the cap coming back to the Rangers would be approaching zero, or at least be something the Rangers wouldn't mind burying in the minors or having claimed, and most certainly wouldn't be the centerpiece of a deal coming back.
The issue I have is too many posters are getting enthralled with the idea that the "homegrowns" are propelling this team to greatness 35 games into the season, and thinking that just by resigning those RFAs that the team is a Cup contender for years to come, without adding the pieces to fill the holes that are obvious. Even with keeping all the homegrowns, the roster looks good, but is still missing a top-flight LW/C forward, and if you can get one who is hitting his prime, a PPG player, a Selke caliber defensive forward, for nothing but money at the possibility of a future expense of ONE of those forwards, you do it, unless anyone truly believes that Dubinsky will be on par with Parise for the next 3-5 years.
I find it odd how a thread that praises our homegrown core somehow turns into a discussion about acquiring a free agent. That seems to be the antithesis of what Custance was getting at in his article.
Noticed that too ehh??
"....oh great we're building from within......ummmm, yeah. cool. Let's target more high end F/A's which may result in us not being able to resign the younger guys....... That'll work right?"
Damn, didn't mean to start all this commotion. It was just of a "wouldn't that be cool if it could happen" type deal mentioning Parise. Wasn't saying we should blow up or give up the youth movement that's taken us years to get around to developing, but if you take a look around, almost ALL good/great teams are a mix of homegrown talent mixed in with free agents obviously. We fit that boat too-case and point-Gaborik and Richards. How would we be looking without the two of them?
Tell that to the Rangers of 1998-2004. Big desperation offers won. Out bidding the competition out of desperation because of consistent failure. We won many of those and how did that work out for us? Not well, but we still won which shows if money is the main motivator then that the player will go where the money is.
Brad already won a Stanley cup, a Conn Smythe, is over 30 and could be getting the last big contract of his career so money easily could have been the main motivation which means that Calgary's offer COULD have been taken seriously. We will never know. But to say desperation offers are not taken seriously was just completely proved moot by the history of the Rangers.
Those weren't desperation offers in that 98-04 era, they were bids in negotiations where the team wanted to win and had the resources to make it happen. This didn't stop happening, magically, after the lockout. The Rangers offered the most for Redden, too, but that doesn't make it a desperation offer. If they wanted Redden, they needed to offer more than the other high bidder, in this case Columbus.
Stop treating every situation like it's the same. There were reports for months on end about how Richards knew he was in for a big payday, no matter where he went, so other things became more important, like organization and location. Calgary knew they weren't on his list and had to offer a larger contract to try to overcome reservations that had nothing to do with the dollar figure on paper.
Interesting excerpt. Couldn't read the whole thing, haven't wasted my money on ESPN insider in years.
but a push on D? I would like to see the reasoning behind that.
When healthy the Rangers D is way better, younger, and deeper. Even if Pronger ever plays again, which I don't think he will, I think the Rangers are better on D.
Staal, Girardi, McDonaugh, MDZ, Sauer, Erixon, Valentenko, even Bickel has shown he can play.
Timmonen, Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Lilja?
Sorry, I'll take the Rangers D in that matchup.
EXACTLY! Rangers D now and in the future hands down! This is just another of how much of a joke ESPN has become. Clueless
EXACTLY! Rangers D now and in the future hands down! This is just another of how much of a joke ESPN has become. Clueless
In the present, their D-core is better. More top-end talent, especially offensively, and more experience. I don't see how anyone could objectively say otherwise.
On another note, it kind of saddens me that there are still fans who think constantly going after the big name in the off-season is a good idea. There is only so much cap space to go around, let's not corner ourselves here into potentially losing core players for a luxury.
Another thing Tortorella does well is leave the room to the players. He's pretty careful about letting Ryan Callahan, Dan Girardi, Brad Richards and the returning Marc Staal handle those issues.
did anyone else see the clip of Dan Girardi announcing the starting lineup for the WC? I thought that was a cool example of giving the room to the players. Usually the coach does that on other teams but they let the players have the list and announce it to each other.
Being on the starting lineup is pretty cool. I think I've only had it happen to myself a few times in my high school hockey days but it was always cool when it happens since I wasn't a top 6 type of player.
If I had a choice of Suter or Parise I choose Suter 10 times out of 10. I then, at the correct time, look to trade one of the redundant pieces on the back-end for a young goal scorer on his ELC or about to make his debut (think Kreider-like) + and roll with that.
Damned right he would go nicely on this team. If we could fit him in with a cap hit at about $6.5m, we might be able to finagle the cap room to keep our young guys as well. Wishful thinking, but hey, our team is looking great this year, so why not throw in a little gluttony.
These are only the fa guys who have played real minutes for us-there are a bunch of other young guys who aren't getting much skate with the big club that i'm not mentioning.
Our 2012 rfas are: Wolski, Del Zotto, Bickel, Zuccarelo, & Stralman
Our 2012 ufas are: Avery, Fedotenko, Christensen, Prust, Mitchell, Eminger, Woywitka, & Biron
I want to make sure we lock up DZ (duh) and I'd like to see Prust & Biron come back as well, but it's 2013 that we're really gonna be worrying about paying our own guys bc Anisimov, Stepan, Hagelin, McD, & Sauer are all rfas, and we're gonna need a good amount to pay these guys.
Keep in mind that we have McIlrath and Erixon coming up thru the system on D and of course, Kreider at one of the wing spots. Drury's buyout goes to $1.66 next yr, if we take off Fedotenko, Christensen, & Wolski off the books as well, we clear about $8m.
Brendan Shanahan was a NJD, howd you feel about him?
Brendan Shanahan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Parise. Besides, by the time Shanny became a Ranger the Debbie stink had loooong washed away. (Actually, once he became a Blue, I wanted him as a Ranger. The Debbies had not yet become the DEBBIES as we know them at that point.)
Don't want Parise as a Ranger, and don't see him becoming one anyway.
Well, what I CAN assume is that if Dubinsky and Boyle are traded as per my suggestion (which is merely an option for the future and doesn't even have to be done this next season), for cap purposes, I think it's a very safe assumption that the cap coming back to the Rangers would be approaching zero, or at least be something the Rangers wouldn't mind burying in the minors or having claimed, and most certainly wouldn't be the centerpiece of a deal coming back.
The issue I have is too many posters are getting enthralled with the idea that the "homegrowns" are propelling this team to greatness 35 games into the season, and thinking that just by resigning those RFAs that the team is a Cup contender for years to come, without adding the pieces to fill the holes that are obvious. Even with keeping all the homegrowns, the roster looks good, but is still missing a top-flight LW/C forward, and if you can get one who is hitting his prime, a PPG player, a Selke caliber defensive forward, for nothing but money at the possibility of a future expense of ONE of those forwards, you do it, unless anyone truly believes that Dubinsky will be on par with Parise for the next 3-5 years.
Good post. I don't think anyone in their right mind believes Dubi will be on a par with Parise in anything related to hockey!
Those weren't desperation offers in that 98-04 era, they were bids in negotiations where the team wanted to win and had the resources to make it happen. This didn't stop happening, magically, after the lockout. The Rangers offered the most for Redden, too, but that doesn't make it a desperation offer. If they wanted Redden, they needed to offer more than the other high bidder, in this case Columbus.
Stop treating every situation like it's the same. There were reports for months on end about how Richards knew he was in for a big payday, no matter where he went, so other things became more important, like organization and location. Calgary knew they weren't on his list and had to offer a larger contract to try to overcome reservations that had nothing to do with the dollar figure on paper.
And what exactly do you think Calgary wanted to do by acquiring Richards??? They want to win and had the cash to attempt to make it happen, you said it yourself with the Rangers! There is ZERO difference. Stop treating every situation like they are 100% different!
As for the second bolded part how were the Rangers of pre lock out any different? With constant failure building the Rangers had no choice but to overcome a players reservations (if they had reservations) of failure with a big dollar amount.
__________________
I feel like this is such an appropriate quote for these boards...
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"-Mark Twain
Good post. I don't think anyone in their right mind believes Dubi will be on a par with Parise in anything related to hockey!
I agree. I mean I think having a homegrown core of players is important and having a close core of players important however, just because a player is home grown doesn't make them indispensable unless that name is Henrik Lundqvist.
I agree. I mean I think having a homegrown core of players is important and having a close core of players important however, just because a player is home grown doesn't make them indispensable unless that name is Henrik Lundqvist.
And if Henrik Lundqvist wasn't the best goalie in the NHL and the Rangers had a Montoya/Nabokov situation going on, even the home-grown Montoya would be disposable for the right price. The reason Lundqvist isn't disposable isn't because he is homegrown, it's because he is indisputably one of the absolute best in the NHL at his position. Those are the guys you target if you can, and Parise is one of the best in the NHL at his position.
And if Henrik Lundqvist wasn't the best goalie in the NHL and the Rangers had a Montoya/Nabokov situation going on, even the home-grown Montoya would be disposable for the right price. The reason Lundqvist isn't disposable isn't because he is homegrown, it's because he is indisputably one of the absolute best in the NHL at his position. Those are the guys you target if you can, and Parise is one of the best in the NHL at his position.
In the present, their D-core is better. More top-end talent, especially offensively, and more experience. I don't see how anyone could objectively say otherwise.
Do you mean the Flyers defense? The one that's 21st in the league in GA?
If you do then I disagree. They don't have any top end talent past Pronger who is out for the season and may be done completely. Although Timonnen is still decent, he is a billion years old. Carle is good but he is not top end talent
Even presently I'll take a top 5 of Staal-Girardi-McDonagh-MDZ-Sauer over their top 5 of Timmonen-Carle-Meszaros-Coburn-Lilja any day of the week. Doubt there are many who wouldn't
And if Henrik Lundqvist wasn't the best goalie in the NHL and the Rangers had a Montoya/Nabokov situation going on, even the home-grown Montoya would be disposable for the right price. The reason Lundqvist isn't disposable isn't because he is homegrown, it's because he is indisputably one of the absolute best in the NHL at his position. Those are the guys you target if you can, and Parise is one of the best in the NHL at his position.
Right I didn't mean he wasn't dispensable because hes homegrown... I was going for the best goalie in the NHL thing.
Right I didn't mean he wasn't dispensable because hes homegrown... I was going for the best goalie in the NHL thing.
I know you specifically weren't, but that's my point. So many people are becoming so ridiculously enamored with the idea of the home-growns that are producing, that they are making assertions that the Rangers are better off not even looking at Parise if he comes available, if it means having to ship out one of a Dubinsky-level player, because Dubinsky is a home-grown. If you get the opportunity to make a dramatic upgrade, while getting an in-their-prime top player at their position, which just happens to be the most glaring need on the current team, you do it, even if it ultimately costs one of the home-growns. The difference between a Dubinsky and a Kulemin/Patches/etc level player isn't enough to justify forcing Dubs out of a roster spot, especially with Dubs being a Ranger product. But the difference between Dubinsky and Parise most definitely is, especially knowing that Dubinsky could bring in some good, cheap pieces or picks. It's not as if the Rangers would be giving these players up for nothing.
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