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It's October and how many people in the U.S. will miss the NHL

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Old
10-03-2004, 02:11 PM
  #1
RangerBoy
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It's October and how many people in the U.S. will miss the NHL

Keep it up Gary Bettman,your league will cease to exist.Will the last person to leave the building,please turn out the lights.Besides the hard core hockey nuts in the U.S.,how many people will notice the NHL is currently locked out?The MLB playoffs begin this week,the NFL is underway and the NBA will begin in November.Thanksgiving will arrive in November and Christmas will be 4 weeks away.The college bowl games will dominate late December-early January.The NFL playoffs will begin in January.The SuperBowl is on Febuary 6th this season.A few weeks later,MLB spring training will begin and in March the NCAA March Madness will command the attention.In April,the MLB 2005 begins and NBA playoffs begin.How people will actually give a **** if the NHL never plays again?Unfortunately,not many

Thanks Gary

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10-03-2004, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Keep it up Gary Bettman,your league will cease to exist.Will the last person to leave the building,please turn out the lights.Besides the hard core hockey nuts in the U.S.,how many people will notice the NHL is currently locked out?The MLB playoffs begin this week,the NFL is underway and the NBA will begin in November.Thanksgiving will arrive in November and Christmas will be 4 weeks away.The college bowl games will dominate late December-early January.The NFL playoffs will begin in January.The SuperBowl is on Febuary 6th this season.A few weeks later,MLB spring training will begin and in March the NCAA March Madness will command the attention.In April,the MLB 2005 begins and NBA playoffs begin.How people will actually give a **** if the NHL never plays again?Unfortunately,not many

Thanks Gary
philly - detroit - dallas - colorado - san jose - minnesota - st louis - boston - oh yeah i forgot - the fans hate jacob's

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10-04-2004, 02:41 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Keep it up Gary Bettman,your league will cease to exist.Will the last person to leave the building,please turn out the lights.Besides the hard core hockey nuts in the U.S.,how many people will notice the NHL is currently locked out?The MLB playoffs begin this week,the NFL is underway and the NBA will begin in November.Thanksgiving will arrive in November and Christmas will be 4 weeks away.The college bowl games will dominate late December-early January.The NFL playoffs will begin in January.The SuperBowl is on Febuary 6th this season.A few weeks later,MLB spring training will begin and in March the NCAA March Madness will command the attention.In April,the MLB 2005 begins and NBA playoffs begin.How people will actually give a **** if the NHL never plays again?Unfortunately,not many

Thanks Gary

I sure wish the league realized what you and I do. A cap won't solve anything if an entire season is cancelled. They're kind of defeatinf their own purpose.

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10-04-2004, 02:58 PM
  #4
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The other side...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy
Keep it up Gary Bettman,your league will cease to exist.Will the last person to leave the building,please turn out the lights.Besides the hard core hockey nuts in the U.S.,how many people will notice the NHL is currently locked out?The MLB playoffs begin this week,the NFL is underway and the NBA will begin in November.Thanksgiving will arrive in November and Christmas will be 4 weeks away.The college bowl games will dominate late December-early January.The NFL playoffs will begin in January.The SuperBowl is on Febuary 6th this season.A few weeks later,MLB spring training will begin and in March the NCAA March Madness will command the attention.In April,the MLB 2005 begins and NBA playoffs begin.How people will actually give a **** if the NHL never plays again?Unfortunately,not many

Thanks Gary
Everything you said Rangerboy applies to the PA too.... If no one cares about hockey in the States, then that means revenues will drop, meaning less money to pay the players, but even more discouraging will be that some teams will never ever recover from a cancelled season, meaning that a few clubs will be folded, and NHL jobs will be lost for the PA.

PA always believes that some rich dude is going to buy a struggling franchise. Well, hockey isn't doing so great right now, and all the competition you mentioned above, along with declining interest, no National guaranteed TV money, etc. why would anyone buy a NHL team in a weak hockey market to save them? PA better realize that.

Ottawa and Buffalo were saved because they were in backruptcy and the new owners got the teams at below market value, and in Ottawa's case Melynk got the Arena too for only 100 million or so. Plus, those 2 cities know hockey. Who's going to save Anaheim, Carolina, Nashville, Florida? Someone from Houston, Cleveland, Portland? Yeah, with Baseball, Football, and Basketball to compete with. No way.

The owners know what the cost of a lost season are to them. It's just that the finances for most owners have gotten so bad that this fight with the PA has to be fought.

Owners can't look short term on this anymore. They're been too short sighted for too long. The NHL didn't need to expand to the last 4 cities (should have just moved a team like Hartford into Minny or Columbus, as an example) instead of pocketing the expansion money. But, the owners thought only short term, and decided that 19 million in expansion fees per team was worth diluting the product, driving up player salaries because of over demand for skilled players, and extending a deal that wasn't working.

Both sides need to be content with the CBA and until that happens, no hockey will be played.

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10-04-2004, 03:07 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk
Everything you said Rangerboy applies to the PA too.... If no one cares about hockey in the States, then that means revenues will drop, meaning less money to pay the players, but even more discouraging will be that some teams will never ever recover from a cancelled season, meaning that a few clubs will be folded, and NHL jobs will be lost for the PA.

PA always believes that some rich dude is going to buy a struggling franchise. Well, hockey isn't doing so great right now, and all the competition you mentioned above, along with declining interest, no National guaranteed TV money, etc. why would anyone buy a NHL team in a weak hockey market to save them? PA better realize that.

Ottawa and Buffalo were saved because they were in backruptcy and the new owners got the teams at below market value, and in Ottawa's case Melynk got the Arena too for only 100 million or so. Plus, those 2 cities know hockey. Who's going to save Anaheim, Carolina, Nashville, Florida? Someone from Houston, Cleveland, Portland? Yeah, with Baseball, Football, and Basketball to compete with. No way.

The owners know what the cost of a lost season are to them. It's just that the finances for most owners have gotten so bad that this fight with the PA has to be fought.

Owners can't look short term on this anymore. They're been too short sighted for too long. The NHL didn't need to expand to the last 4 cities (should have just moved a team like Hartford into Minny or Columbus, as an example) instead of pocketing the expansion money. But, the owners thought only short term, and decided that 19 million in expansion fees per team was worth diluting the product, driving up player salaries because of over demand for skilled players, and extending a deal that wasn't working.

Both sides need to be content with the CBA and until that happens, no hockey will be played.
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues

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10-04-2004, 03:27 PM
  #6
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Wait and see I guess....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues
Well, Bob definately doesn't want contraction, that would mean fewer members for the PA. As for Gary, he doesn't want it either since it would reflect poorly on his record. But, for Gary, keeping 30 teams means getting the deal he feels the NHL needs, so the onus is very much on him to stand his ground. If it means losing the season to get a good deal for the owners, then so be it.

As for other cities begging for teams, well, we'll just see how many interested parties there will be if this lockout kills one season or more. Houston, the Texans are in year 3 and are getting better, Astros just made the MLB playoffs, and the Rockets are improving. So, hockey will sit #4 in Houston. Cleveland, even with former SJ owners the Gund brothers wanting a team, hockey will still sit behind the Browns, Indians (who should contend for the AL Central in 2005), and Cavaliers (if LeBron is the next great BBall player). Portland, always thought they were a good city for hockey, and very surprised they weren't in on the last round of expansion, so I have questions about who really wants a team in Portland. Las Vegas, hmmm... that's an interesting market to deal with. How strong is the local support going to be, cause Hockey wouldn't be a touristy thing to do down there.

Until the 2 sides can agree to a Salary Cap or Threshold & Penalty structure, all we can do is wait. All of the other issues like Rookie money, Abritration, Qualifying Offers, UFA, etc. can be handled in short order after the salary structure issue is agreed upon.

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10-04-2004, 04:45 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues
If those cities are begging for teams, why haven't they put in bids for the other teams that were on sale over the past year...


In an NHL plagued by overexpansion in the 1990s and current labor problems, several teams are officially for sale, including the Phoenix Coyotes, Tampa Bay Lightning and Calgary Flames, according to Street & Smith's and the Post.

Four of nine expansion teams are for sale -- the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Atlanta Thrashers, Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning.


http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/st...07/daily8.html

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10-04-2004, 05:04 PM
  #8
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Well that must be a bit old as both Atlanta and Ottawa were sold. Ottawa got snapped up real quick and had multiple buyers. Supposedly $130mil for the team and arena. I think that means the arena was even cheaper than $100mil as it was bought from the same company that owns Anaheims Pond who was in bankruptcy. COld be a great deal buying Anaheim too. Except they seem to be asking twice as much as Ottawa. No wonder its not selling. Not a CBA problem but an asking price problem

Ottawa, Atlanta were sold. Vancouver is going to be sold for big bucks. Buffalo was sold. NJ will be sold. Tampa Bay should find it easier to sell if they wish.



How much is Anaheim asking for their team? Does it include the arena?

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10-04-2004, 05:19 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Well that must be a bit old as both Atlanta and Ottawa were sold. Ottawa got snapped up real quick and had multiple buyers. Supposedly $130mil for the team and arena. I think that means the arena was even cheaper than $100mil as it was bought from the same company that owns Anaheims Pond who was in bankruptcy. COld be a great deal buying Anaheim too. Except they seem to be asking twice as much as Ottawa. No wonder its not selling. Not a CBA problem but an asking price problem

Ottawa, Atlanta were sold. Vancouver is going to be sold for big bucks. Buffalo was sold. NJ will be sold. Tampa Bay should find it easier to sell if they wish.



How much is Anaheim asking for their team? Does it include the arena?

April 7, 2003

Don't know any of that, but the poster was saying that the cities mentioned were "begging for a team", and it seems that in the past year and a half many were for sale. Buffalo in particular was concerned about Portland making an offer for the Sabres, but no offer ever came from them.

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10-04-2004, 05:43 PM
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Except the offer to keep them in Buffalo. So what was the article you posted intended to show? That despite what Levitt says teams have been selling like hotcakes. Except the ones asking too much. All the ones sold at a reasonable price got sold. The others are asking for a cap.

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10-04-2004, 05:51 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by thinkwild



How much is Anaheim asking for their team? Does it include the arena?
Last blip I saw on Anaheim, they were asking for $50 mil, which was the franchise fee.
The Arena is owned by another group who supposedly is one of the bidders for the team.

 
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10-04-2004, 05:52 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Except the offer to keep them in Buffalo. So what was the article you posted intended to show? That despite what Levitt says teams have been selling like hotcakes. Except the ones asking too much. All the ones sold at a reasonable price got sold. The others are asking for a cap.


Mr Gib says...
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues

And I said that many teams were for sale, and posted an article showing that ~2/3 of the teams were for sale. If these cities were truly begging for teams, they could have bought some, or at least made bids for some.

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10-04-2004, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues
1. vegas will never have a professional team as it's forbidden where there's gambling or else im sure there would have already been a baseball, football, or basketball team there by now

2. many reasons have already been listed concerning the other two cities so i won't repeat

mind you i can't remember the laws word for word, but there were threads in the past about a team moving to vegas and it was quickly shot down

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10-05-2004, 12:12 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
If those cities are begging for teams, why haven't they put in bids for the other teams that were on sale over the past year...


In an NHL plagued by overexpansion in the 1990s and current labor problems, several teams are officially for sale, including the Phoenix Coyotes, Tampa Bay Lightning and Calgary Flames, according to Street & Smith's and the Post.

Four of nine expansion teams are for sale -- the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Atlanta Thrashers, Ottawa Senators and Tampa Bay Lightning.


http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/st...07/daily8.html
they want teams in their own cities - bettman is committed to the expansion he already made

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10-05-2004, 12:15 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk
Well, Bob definately doesn't want contraction, that would mean fewer members for the PA. As for Gary, he doesn't want it either since it would reflect poorly on his record. But, for Gary, keeping 30 teams means getting the deal he feels the NHL needs, so the onus is very much on him to stand his ground. If it means losing the season to get a good deal for the owners, then so be it.

As for other cities begging for teams, well, we'll just see how many interested parties there will be if this lockout kills one season or more. Houston, the Texans are in year 3 and are getting better, Astros just made the MLB playoffs, and the Rockets are improving. So, hockey will sit #4 in Houston. Cleveland, even with former SJ owners the Gund brothers wanting a team, hockey will still sit behind the Browns, Indians (who should contend for the AL Central in 2005), and Cavaliers (if LeBron is the next great BBall player). Portland, always thought they were a good city for hockey, and very surprised they weren't in on the last round of expansion, so I have questions about who really wants a team in Portland. Las Vegas, hmmm... that's an interesting market to deal with. How strong is the local support going to be, cause Hockey wouldn't be a touristy thing to do down there.

Until the 2 sides can agree to a Salary Cap or Threshold & Penalty structure, all we can do is wait. All of the other issues like Rookie money, Abritration, Qualifying Offers, UFA, etc. can be handled in short order after the salary structure issue is agreed upon.
didn't mention cleveland - houston needs another team in the arena - vegas will take any pro franchise right now -


Last edited by mr gib: 10-05-2004 at 12:22 AM.
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10-05-2004, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by djhn579
Mr Gib says...
you're right on one thing - bob and gary are firm - no contraction - you forgot who owned buffalo and ottawa though - portland - houston - and vegas are begging for a team - oh yeah - and there's the winning vs money thing again - the viable teams vs the non - viable - the debate continues

And I said that many teams were for sale, and posted an article showing that ~2/3 of the teams were for sale. If these cities were truly begging for teams, they could have bought some, or at least made bids for some.
bettman would not move any teams

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10-05-2004, 01:15 PM
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You could probably pose the question with regard for Canadians too. Quite honestly, I don't even know how much I care right now. I remember the last hockey, baseball and football strike/lockout and, frankly, am sick of all this stupid posturing and comments to the media about who's wrong and who's right. If they cancel this season then they really have lost me as a fan and most likely a lot more people as disgusted by the antics on both sides.

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10-05-2004, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Hawk
Who's going to save Anaheim, Carolina, Nashville, Florida? Someone from Houston, Cleveland, Portland? Yeah, with Baseball, Football, and Basketball to compete with. No way.
Honestly I hope nobody does. It would suck for the fans of those teams but the NHL would be better as a whole with fewer teams. More talent would be spread across the NHL and the on-ice product would be better.

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10-05-2004, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by thinkwild
Except the offer to keep them in Buffalo. So what was the article you posted intended to show? That despite what Levitt says teams have been selling like hotcakes. Except the ones asking too much. All the ones sold at a reasonable price got sold. The others are asking for a cap.
The Sens got bought because of a promise that the CBA would be fixed. At least thats what I heard in an interview on the radio last week. It was a stipulation of the sale.

As for the thread title, it was on Jim Rome last week, someone quipped that more people in the US probably knew that the WNBA playoffs were on than people who knew the NHL was on strike. Sad but probably true.

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10-05-2004, 03:17 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by BAuldie
Honestly I hope nobody does. It would suck for the fans of those teams but the NHL would be better as a whole with fewer teams. More talent would be spread across the NHL and the on-ice product would be better.

Right, because if there were no southern teams, all of sudden the trap goes and officials start calling games correctly. Do you really think it would be a good thing if teams start folding? Give me a break.

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10-05-2004, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by garry1221
1. vegas will never have a professional team as it's forbidden where there's gambling or else im sure there would have already been a baseball, football, or basketball team there by now
Not true. Las Vegas was on MLB's short list for homes for the Expos. It's a detriment, but it's legal.

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10-05-2004, 04:33 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by shakes
You could probably pose the question with regard for Canadians too. Quite honestly, I don't even know how much I care right now. I remember the last hockey, baseball and football strike/lockout and, frankly, am sick of all this stupid posturing and comments to the media about who's wrong and who's right. If they cancel this season then they really have lost me as a fan and most likely a lot more people as disgusted by the antics on both sides.
agreed - it is getting sickening -

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10-05-2004, 04:34 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Cawz
The Sens got bought because of a promise that the CBA would be fixed. At least thats what I heard in an interview on the radio last week. It was a stipulation of the sale.

As for the thread title, it was on Jim Rome last week, someone quipped that more people in the US probably knew that the WNBA playoffs were on than people who knew the NHL was on strike. Sad but probably true.
- that dick skip bayliss still won't play goal though -


Last edited by mr gib: 10-05-2004 at 05:42 PM.
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10-05-2004, 07:06 PM
  #24
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Melnyk bought the Sens because Bettman promised him he would win all he wanted in the next round of CBA negotiations? Does Goodenow know about this?

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10-05-2004, 07:37 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by thinkwild
Melnyk bought the Sens because Bettman promised him he would win all he wanted in the next round of CBA negotiations? Does Goodenow know about this?
Um, no. Thanks for elaborating for me though.

Bettman assured Melnyk, according to the sports show I was listening to, that the season wouldnt go ahead without some cost certainty. Apparently, the nhl is a bad investment. It has the potential to be a good investment if the CBA is fixed. Everyone involved, players and owners, should be making millions while we buy $8 beers.

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