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With Niedermayer leaving at the end of "next" season, would you want.....

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10-04-2004, 03:39 PM
  #1
BringGilmourBack
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With Niedermayer leaving at the end of "next" season, would you want.....

Tomas Kaberle as a replacement. Both play similar games. Slick skating defensemen that can rush the puck in and make an excellant first pass.

Maybe you could package up...lets say, C.White and Ahonen for Kaberle's services. Does that seem plausible? Or would Toronto have to sweeten the pot. IMO, I don't think we'd have to but, I'm not sure how those two players are coming along. I know Ahonen is still in the minors, and I heard a couple of other posters saying that White is slowing working his way off the team. And now with Matvichuk, and more icetime needed for D.Hale development, I figure that that wouldn't be that bad of a deal. Keep in mind that the deal is based on Niedermayer bolting at the end of the season, which he has already stated. (supposably)

Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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10-04-2004, 03:49 PM
  #2
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No.

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10-04-2004, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkball7
No.
I'll add to this response.





Hell no.



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10-04-2004, 04:17 PM
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HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA


Oh god....Kaberle plays nothing like Scotty! kaberle doesn't shoot, doesn't hit, doesn't rush...i could go on...

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10-04-2004, 04:25 PM
  #5
BringGilmourBack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Tie DOMI
I'll add to this response.





Hell no.


Just curious but in your avatar,doesn't it read C.White=worthless? But yet you wouldn't want a top notch dman in return to replace your departed Niedermayer? So here's the logic I'm trying to deal with,yu don't like White, than for you, the trade is pretty much Ahonen for Kaberle? Wouldn't it be? So you'd rather keep a goaltender that will never be more than a #2 on your depth chart. cause we all know. You guys will neverpart with Broduer. So Ahonen will only end up getting no more than 15 games a year. So...why not trade him for something of value?

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10-04-2004, 04:27 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtafts
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA


Oh god....Kaberle plays nothing like Scotty! kaberle doesn't shoot, doesn't hit, doesn't rush...i could go on...

Well you obviously don't watch him play. The only thing he doesn't do is shoot. I'll give you that. Oh yeah, since when does Niedermayer hit....nice try.

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10-04-2004, 05:56 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Just curious but in your avatar,doesn't it read C.White=worthless? But yet you wouldn't want a top notch dman in return to replace your departed Niedermayer?
Kaberle hasn't been widely considered "top notch" since the 01-02 season when he made the all star team. Even then he was considered a defensive liability. We already had a player similar to him, Oleg Tevrdovsky, and we all know how that worked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
So here's the logic I'm trying to deal with,yu don't like White, than for you, the trade is pretty much Ahonen for Kaberle? Wouldn't it be? So you'd rather keep a goaltender that will never be more than a #2 on your depth chart. cause we all know. You guys will neverpart with Broduer. So Ahonen will only end up getting no more than 15 games a year. So...why not trade him for something of value?
You do make a good point here, however, I would rather package Ahonen with someone else for a younger goale of about the same potential or trade him for a pick/to move up in a given draft.

The Devils do not need a 2nd pairing offensive defenseman, and even if Niedermayer does leave (which still isnt an absolute given), I am sure Lou would look elsewhere to fill that void.

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10-04-2004, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Well you obviously don't watch him play. The only thing he doesn't do is shoot. I'll give you that. Oh yeah, since when does Niedermayer hit....nice try.
So your calling Scott Niedermayer soft? Right, you've just lost all credibility to me.

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10-04-2004, 07:04 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkball7
The Devils do not need a 2nd pairing offensive defenseman, and even if Niedermayer does leave (which still isnt an absolute given), I am sure Lou would look elsewhere to fill that void.
I doubt Lou would make such a major trade with a team within the Eastern Conference, let alone the Leafs.

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10-04-2004, 07:24 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
So your calling Scott Niedermayer soft? Right, you've just lost all credibility to me.

Ya right, Niedermayer, the big bad bruising defenseman that he is. And as if I care what you think of me. Whatever happened to everybody being entitled their own opinion? Whatever....

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10-04-2004, 07:29 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Ya right, Niedermayer, the big bad bruising defenseman that he is. And as if I care what you think of me. Whatever happened to everybody being entitled their own opinion? Whatever....
Theres a difference between not being soft, and being Tom Poti. Niedermayer is not a defenseman that is afraid to go into the corners, or be physical if need be. Hell I've even seen him throw a Stevens like hit. Know what your talking about before opening your mouth.

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10-04-2004, 07:34 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
Theres a difference between not being soft, and being Tom Poti. Niedermayer is not a defenseman that is afraid to go into the corners, or be physical if need be. Hell I've even seen him throw a Stevens like hit. Know what your talking about before opening your mouth.

Did you just watch the WC, you probably didn't. Well Niedermayer didn't seem to be throwing his body around that much. And I never did say he was soft all I said is that he didn't hit often. He's like a Brian Leetch, extremely intelligent, so he doesn't have to throw his body around all the time.

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10-04-2004, 07:48 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Did you just watch the WC, you probably didn't. Well Niedermayer didn't seem to be throwing his body around that much. And I never did say he was soft all I said is that he didn't hit often. He's like a Brian Leetch, extremely intelligent, so he doesn't have to throw his body around all the time.
He doesn't have to. He's really, really tough in the corners and I've seen Niedermayer hit like a truck. Niedermayer isn't a checking defenseman but he's a damn tough offensive defenseman.

We wouldn't give you White for Kaberle BTW. White is far too valuable to us and if Niedermayer goes we've still got Rafalski and Martin.

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10-04-2004, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
if Niedermayer goes we've still got Rafalski and Martin.
Well, your kinda right. Martin will be back unless he gets traded. Rafalski will be a UFA like Niedermayer so his status will be up in the air. I can see more than a few teams putting up some good coin for Rafalski.

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10-04-2004, 08:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattNJD
Well, your kinda right. Martin will be back unless he gets traded. Rafalski will be a UFA like Niedermayer so his status will be up in the air. I can see more than a few teams putting up some good coin for Rafalski.
Can you honestly see us losing both in one offseason? I can't.

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10-04-2004, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
Can you honestly see us losing both in one offseason? I can't.
I agree with you. I can't see Lou Lamoriello letting both Scott Niedermayer and Brian Rafalski leave in the summer of 2005. I also doubt that he would resign both of them.

Paul Martin can be the second pairing right defenseman, and the thrid pairing can feature two defensive-defensemen if the team doesn't get a decent offensive-defenseman for the third pairing.

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10-04-2004, 09:11 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Did you just watch the WC, you probably didn't. Well Niedermayer didn't seem to be throwing his body around that much. And I never did say he was soft all I said is that he didn't hit often. He's like a Brian Leetch, extremely intelligent, so he doesn't have to throw his body around all the time.
So your basing this all on what, six games? I suggest you watch Devil games more closely the next time they come to Toronto. Saying he doesn't hit, or rather implying that he doesn't want to, is equal to calling him soft.

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10-04-2004, 11:09 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Did you just watch the WC, you probably didn't. Well Niedermayer didn't seem to be throwing his body around that much. And I never did say he was soft all I said is that he didn't hit often. He's like a Brian Leetch, extremely intelligent, so he doesn't have to throw his body around all the time.
Comparing Leetch to Niedermayer defensively is like comparing Rasmussen to Thornton offensively. It just doesn't work.

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10-05-2004, 12:58 AM
  #19
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I dont think we will lose Scotty but if we do, why not package him in a deal maybe something like this

COL Gets: Niedermeyer, Ahonen, & 2nd rd pick
NJ Gets: Foote, Hinote, Sauve, & Hahl

What do you think fair, unfair what changes would you make.......Im just suggesting believe me i dont wann alose Scotty....But if we have to what would you if you trade him for something rather then lose hhim....

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10-05-2004, 08:42 AM
  #20
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Hell no to the replacement...



Niedermayer and Rafalski will both be New Jersey Devils players next season and beyond... Lou is not stupid to let one or even both leave the team...

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10-05-2004, 09:46 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Did you just watch the WC, you probably didn't. Well Niedermayer didn't seem to be throwing his body around that much. And I never did say he was soft all I said is that he didn't hit often. He's like a Brian Leetch, extremely intelligent, so he doesn't have to throw his body around all the time.
I remember Niedermayer getting in a fight with Jeff Halpern in defense of a teammate (Brodeur). That doesn't seem to be something Kaberle would do.

I think there are plenty of guys around the NHL who will be available for around Kaberle's cost, that would be a better fit with the team and a better substitute for what Nieds provided.

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10-05-2004, 11:28 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame_Star_Devil
Can you honestly see us losing both in one offseason? I can't.
Why not? Its gotta be a two way street. I'm POSITIVE that Lou doesn't want to lose either of Raf or Nieds. But who knows what they are thinking. If Niedermayer wanted to stay here, I'm pretty sure he would have signed that 5 years deal that Lou offered. He isn't going to get nearly that type of money anywhere else once the new CBA is figured out. And as far as Rafalski, you just never know. I mean, I'm not saying I think he is gonna leave, I'm just saying there is a good chance it COULD happen. Its not like Lou wanted Holik to go, its not like he wanted Claude to go (after 00), its not like he wanted Nieuwendyk to go, but money talks so you just never know. I've gotta say its pretty scary if you consider the fact that our defense MIGHT lose Stevens, Niedermayer, and Rafalski after this season!!

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10-05-2004, 02:44 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattNJD
I've gotta say its pretty scary if you consider the fact that our defense MIGHT lose Stevens, Niedermayer, and Rafalski after this season!!

And that is why I suggested a trade involving a similar player in Kaberle. But oh well, the majority of NJ fans were not interested. Thanks for the feedback though. It was appreciated

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10-05-2004, 09:26 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
Just curious but in your avatar,doesn't it read C.White=worthless? But yet you wouldn't want a top notch dman in return to replace your departed Niedermayer? So here's the logic I'm trying to deal with,yu don't like White, than for you, the trade is pretty much Ahonen for Kaberle? Wouldn't it be? So you'd rather keep a goaltender that will never be more than a #2 on your depth chart. cause we all know. You guys will neverpart with Broduer. So Ahonen will only end up getting no more than 15 games a year. So...why not trade him for something of value?
I hate Colin White as a player...true. I don't try to hide this fact. If I was a GM he would have been traded for a bag of pucks a long time ago.

Problem is Kaberle is in no way better than or even in any aspect when he is compared to Niedermayer in my mind. Kaberle would just be another Rafalski. A guy who doesn't shoot the puck and when he does can't get it through onto the net for any type of scoring chance because it is always blocked. One Rafalski is more than enough.

Niedermayer can dominate games when he wants too, never have I seen Kaberle even come close to doing this. And you can't make the argument I don't see many Leaf games because you'd be wrong. I live in Ontario not more than 45 minutes way from Toronto so I see my share.

True the trade would be Ahonen for Kaberle since I think White is worthless, but in your original post you asked if I'd like Kaberle on New Jersey as a replacement for Niedermayer. My answer to that was and still is.....Hell No. It makes no difference who you put in to trade for Kaberle, I'd still say no.

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10-06-2004, 09:27 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vedder19
And that is why I suggested a trade involving a similar player in Kaberle. But oh well, the majority of NJ fans were not interested. Thanks for the feedback though. It was appreciated
I don't think the problem here is the suggestion of a trade for a similar player. The problem here is with the implication that Kaberle is a similar player. I think, at best, he's the third-most-similar Leaf (behind Leetch and McCabe).

I think Devils fans resigned to the loss of Niedermayer wouldn't be opposed to a trade for a comparable presence. But Kaberle isn't it. Kaberle as a replacement for *Rafalski*, maybe.

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