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Our Centre situation for the future [ALL CENTRE DEPTH DISCUSSION]

View Poll Results: What do we do?
Draft a number one center and trade Plekanec for a key missing piece? 31 41.33%
Draft a number one center and trade Eller? 2 2.67%
Draft a number one center and trade Desharnais? 10 13.33%
Draft a number one center and shift Deshairnais to wing? 20 26.67%
Keep our existing centers and draft a winger or defenseman? 12 16.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-20-2012, 04:31 AM
  #126
S Bah
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
????-Plekanec-Eller

We get Grigorenko and center depth is perfect.
The Habs will have a great PP when Grigorenko is their center/quarterback.

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Old
01-26-2012, 08:33 AM
  #127
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What to do with Desharnais? He has no size but his play is outstanding. Plekanec's in a lot of trouble. The question is, how do we deal with the size?

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01-26-2012, 09:13 AM
  #128
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I also think the Habs are a decent team with many good players. We just need to get this season behind us and come back next year with a new system, a solidified blueline and a passable PP. For the centre position I think we give Eller more time, and PP time to see what he develops into. Given how Desharnais has done and how Eller has improved over last year I think we have time to wait and dont need to do anything drastic and stupid ie trading PK. Dont trade Pleks please, hes a terrific 2 way centre and the timing is wrong right now, lets just reassess next year.Of course drafting a centre makes complete sense as Id rather be too deep than too thin at this position.

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01-26-2012, 09:34 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What to do with Desharnais? He has no size but his play is outstanding. Plekanec's in a lot of trouble. The question is, how do we deal with the size?
I'm not sure that his play is outstanding...its great value for the money, but we always get carried away when guys go on hot streaks.

I think we are OK with DD, Pleks and Eller down the middle. It's by no means a perfect situation, but short of getting a Ryan Getzlaf or an Eric Staal i'm not sure there is much we can do to improve that situation.

I'd only move Pleks if we could get bigger and improve down the middle...but to make that move Pleks would likely only be 1 of the 2 key pieces we would have to give up...so i don't see it happening.

I would be prepared to go out and spend some money on a 4th center who can play. I'd target Paul Gaustad and would be fine with giving him something in the 2 million+ range. Big body, excellent face off man, strong on the PK, could score 10-15 a year and doesn't look out of place on a 3rd line.

IMO we would become a much more solid team if we could roll out 4 lines with DD, Pleks, Eller and Gaustad up the middle.

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01-26-2012, 09:40 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
I also think the Habs are a decent team with many good players. We just need to get this season behind us and come back next year with a new system, a solidified blueline and a passable PP. For the centre position I think we give Eller more time, and PP time to see what he develops into. Given how Desharnais has done and how Eller has improved over last year I think we have time to wait and dont need to do anything drastic and stupid ie trading PK. Dont trade Pleks please, hes a terrific 2 way centre and the timing is wrong right now, lets just reassess next year.Of course drafting a centre makes complete sense as Id rather be too deep than too thin at this position.
Something has to give if we are going to trade for a top first line center(which we need to do)...Getzaf,Parise,Eric Staal....if Gauthier can score any of these center he will have to give back one of our center Gomez,Pleks,DD or Eller with a package....It would be nice if it was Gomez but that would be unrealistic...I think that most teams would pick Pleks....alongs with some other pieces..

Now, if Gauthier can't get one of these centers in a trade, I think he still should go after Vince....He's supposetely available and the package wouldn't be crazy....That would solve our center position for 2-3 years...I know the contract is long but Vince is still an excellent player that would drastically improve our team...

Who ever Gauthier tries to trade for to solidify the center position....he still should solidify a top draft pick to get a top flight center so that we have an upcoming star center in the future...

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01-26-2012, 09:46 AM
  #131
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Trade Gomez to Columbus for Carter. According to TSN, they want out of that contract ... but then, I am not being paid to be the GM ... it may be a dumb suggestion.

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01-26-2012, 09:48 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Bacchus1 View Post
Trade Gomez to Columbus for Carter. According to TSN, they want out of that contract ... but then, I am not being paid to be the GM ... it may be a dumb suggestion.
They won't take Gomez.

You might be able to move Pleks for Carter though. Habs would be getting the bigger player and the better goal scorer, but i'm not sure if he's the better player. Pleks might be a better center for Rick Nash.

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01-26-2012, 09:53 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What to do with Desharnais? He has no size but his play is outstanding. Plekanec's in a lot of trouble. The question is, how do we deal with the size?
I don't think there is a size issue, along as he got Cole and Patches on his wing. The issue before is that because we had Patches and Cole with DD, we had a line full of small guys with Cammy-Plek-Gionta. I think with the Cammy for Bourque trade, we can be just fine with Plek-DD-Eller down the middle with big wings flanking them

Bourque-Plek-Gio
Patches-DD-Cole
XXX-Eller-AK

XXX-another top 6-9 PFW for ex. Ruutu,Stoll

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01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
  #134
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(1) Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc, Bournival, Gomez, Engqvist, Pribyl...

(2) We have enough size on the wings to balance the "lack" of size of Plekanec and Desharnais. I did put lack in quotation because both players have a very high compete level.

Based on (1) and (2), I would vote "Keep our existing centers and draft the best player available".

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:04 AM
  #135
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DD will stay, but i was PG i would trade Plek for a bigger center, similar to Getzlaf. We need at least one bigger center on this team for the playoffs.

Remember, at this time last season, the San Jose Sharks were 12 points out of a playoff spot. They went to the conference finals thereafter.

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01-26-2012, 10:17 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by The Goalie Mask View Post
Something has to give if we are going to trade for a top first line center(which we need to do)...Getzaf,Parise,Eric Staal....if Gauthier can score any of these center he will have to give back one of our center Gomez,Pleks,DD or Eller with a package....It would be nice if it was Gomez but that would be unrealistic...I think that most teams would pick Pleks....alongs with some other pieces..

Now, if Gauthier can't get one of these centers in a trade, I think he still should go after Vince....He's supposetely available and the package wouldn't be crazy....That would solve our center position for 2-3 years...I know the contract is long but Vince is still an excellent player that would drastically improve our team...

Who ever Gauthier tries to trade for to solidify the center position....he still should solidify a top draft pick to get a top flight center so that we have an upcoming star center in the future...
Parise is a UFA this year and doesnt he play the wing? For guys like Getzlaf or Staal, if they are available, PK would probably have to be part of the deal and I wouldnt trade a possible No.1 D-man because then we would in fact be worse off because our blueline is much weaker than our forwards, including centre. As for Vinnie, no thanks, he has 8 years left on his contract at over $7M per year and he isnt a 40 goal or 80 point centre,

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01-26-2012, 10:28 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
DD will stay, but i was PG i would trade Plek for a bigger center, similar to Getzlaf. We need at least one bigger center on this team for the playoffs.

Remember, at this time last season, the San Jose Sharks were 12 points out of a playoff spot. They went to the conference finals thereafter.

How many big (available) centers are there for a trade ?

Do you really think Anaheim will switch Getzlaf for Pleks ? They would end up with 2 number 2 centers: Pleks and Koivu... Remind you something ?

The best think is to draft one and be patient.

Let's beef up the wings like with the Bourque's trade and keep our centers the way it is right now. Pleks and DD are among the top-30 offensive centermen, anyway.

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01-26-2012, 10:35 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
(1) Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc, Bournival, Gomez, Engqvist, Pribyl...

(2) We have enough size on the wings to balance the "lack" of size of Plekanec and Desharnais. I did put lack in quotation because both players have a very high compete level.

Based on (1) and (2), I would vote "Keep our existing centers and draft the best player available".
The problem is that these smaller centers for whom you're balancing, they still have to cover the bigger centers in the defensive end. That's why we get killed by any team with physical players. Our defensemen are only meant to mark two people.

You either have to go way of the Bruins with a Chara, McQuaid and Seidenberg on D or you go way of LA with Kopitar and Stoll at center. Just examples but you get the picture.

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01-26-2012, 10:35 AM
  #139
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Gomez for Carter and a 2nd, and everyone *****es about the long term cap hit and call Gauthier a moron for a week, then change there minds about the trade

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01-26-2012, 10:53 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
I'm not sure that his play is outstanding...its great value for the money, but we always get carried away when guys go on hot streaks.

I think we are OK with DD, Pleks and Eller down the middle. It's by no means a perfect situation, but short of getting a Ryan Getzlaf or an Eric Staal i'm not sure there is much we can do to improve that situation.

I'd only move Pleks if we could get bigger and improve down the middle...but to make that move Pleks would likely only be 1 of the 2 key pieces we would have to give up...so i don't see it happening.

I would be prepared to go out and spend some money on a 4th center who can play. I'd target Paul Gaustad and would be fine with giving him something in the 2 million+ range. Big body, excellent face off man, strong on the PK, could score 10-15 a year and doesn't look out of place on a 3rd line.

IMO we would become a much more solid team if we could roll out 4 lines with DD, Pleks, Eller and Gaustad up the middle.
If the price is too high maybe Engqvist can step in and be an upgrade over Nokelainen next year? He didn't look ready this year but if we give him better wingers?

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01-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
The problem is that these smaller centers for whom you're balancing, they still have to cover the bigger centers in the defensive end. That's why we get killed by any team with physical players. Our defensemen are only meant to mark two people.

You either have to go way of the Bruins with a Chara, McQuaid and Seidenberg on D or you go way of LA with Kopitar and Stoll at center. Just examples but you get the picture.
If you add a guy like Gleason or Mitchell/Allen that can play bigger minutes, much cheaper than tearing apart your team trying to get big centers. Plekanec isn't big but the 09-10 playoffs showed he can shutdown big centers(Backstrom/Crosby/Malkin).

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01-26-2012, 10:59 AM
  #142
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Gomez for Carter and a 2nd, and everyone *****es about the long term cap hit and call Gauthier a moron for a week, then change there minds about the trade
Yeah, I'm thinking we could at least get a 2nd out of them for relieving them of that contract. Why do they want to get rid of carter, though. Makes no sense to me.

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01-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
The problem is that these smaller centers for whom you're balancing, they still have to cover the bigger centers in the defensive end. That's why we get killed by any team with physical players. Our defensemen are only meant to mark two people.

You either have to go way of the Bruins with a Chara, McQuaid and Seidenberg on D or you go way of LA with Kopitar and Stoll at center. Just examples but you get the picture.
Do we really get killed by teams with physical players though? We've matched up very well against the Rangers this year, the Bruins have beat us this year but it's hardly been one sided, we've had some good games against the Penguins and Flyers too.

The only team in recent memory that completely manhandled us was the Blues, and their amazing defense is more than just being big and strong. And even then our only effective forward for the first half (he got progressively worse as the game went on though) was Plekanec, a "small" player who isn't physical, but whose skating has often been effective against larger guys - he's given Chara nightmares in the past.

Most of our recent losses have been more about terrible execution and the failure of guys to step up offensively. A Carter would help that because he's a much more consistent scorer than Plekanec or Desharnais, but that has little to do with size.

On the defensive end losing a guy like Plekanec for say, Carter, would hurt us regardless of the size of the opposition. Getzlaf is a different story but I have heard accusations of laziness.

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01-26-2012, 11:24 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Frank Doby View Post
DD will stay, but i was PG i would trade Plek for a bigger center, similar to Getzlaf. We need at least one bigger center on this team for the playoffs.

Remember, at this time last season, the San Jose Sharks were 12 points out of a playoff spot. They went to the conference finals thereafter.
No they were not. They had 56 points in 50 games, tied with Chicago for the 7th position in the West. they then went 23-6-3 in their last 32 games to finish with 105 points.

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01-26-2012, 11:36 AM
  #145
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LOL @ trade Plekanec.

Not too long ago, he was leading the Habs in points. Last season, he has THE Habs centerman. He is the go-to guy for almost all situations.

Another sign of the prominence of "bipolarity" here. Not too long ago, people here were using the term "The Edmonton Oilers' Cole" to refer to the same guy you now revere.

Things can and will change. Just because Plek has a harder time in the last a couple months doesn't mean we have to trade him.

We are now pretty big up front. Get a bigger/tougher D. How can anyone miss that???

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01-26-2012, 11:56 AM
  #146
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Yeah, I'm thinking we could at least get a 2nd out of them for relieving them of that contract. Why do they want to get rid of carter, though. Makes no sense to me.
mildly Dreaming in Techni-Color - um er wait, Dreaming in HD

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01-26-2012, 12:04 PM
  #147
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1) Move Plekanec for a bigger #1 centre. Add another player or pick if we have to get a star.

2) Draft BPA

3) Let Desharnais take the #2 centre spot and let him continue to increase his value.

4) Let Eller continue to develop another year as #3 centre.

5) 2012-13 offseason, trade Desharnais when his value is highest and is due for a raise.

6) Move Eller to #2 and Leblanc to develop as #3. Perhaps Bournival or Engqvist as #4.

2013-14 centre depth: #1 star centre, 2012 Lottery Pick , Eller, Leblanc, Bournival

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01-26-2012, 12:06 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
LOL @ trade Plekanec.

Not too long ago, he was leading the Habs in points. Last season, he has THE Habs centerman. He is the go-to guy for almost all situations.

Another sign of the prominence of "bipolarity" here. Not too long ago, people here were using the term "The Edmonton Oilers' Cole" to refer to the same guy you now revere.

Things can and will change. Just because Plek has a harder time in the last a couple months doesn't mean we have to trade him.

We are now pretty big up front. Get a bigger/tougher D. How can anyone miss that???
Ok but, with Eller progressing as good as he is whos not to say he becomes the next Plekanec and can play in every situation? I can see him down the road putting up the same points as Pleky or close to. Eller is developping nicely into a defensive stud and I think he can fill someone like Plekanecs shoes really soon. Even if he doesn't put up the same numbers wed have Eller+Desharnais to make up for the loss. Plekanec isnt a true #1 center we need someone like Carter to be the gamebreaker and put up big numbers. You don't think Carter-Eller-Desharnais is better than Plekanec-Eller-Desharnais?

Im a huge Plekanec fan too I admire everything he does and know he doesn't get enough credit around here. We've needed a #1 center like Carter for awhile and if we make a good push for the playoffs (and maybe fall short) we wont be able to draft that top center. The only reason Carter was ******** the bed in Columbus is he didn't wanna play there there was no motivation. In Montreal we have a good supporting cast for a player like him and I think hed do well here.

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01-26-2012, 12:07 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What to do with Desharnais? He has no size but his play is outstanding. Plekanec's in a lot of trouble. The question is, how do we deal with the size?
maybe we take a page from the Detroit red wings and realize that "size" at C is nowhere near as important as skill...

go look up their cup winning/finals teams over the past 15 years... Fedorov @ 6'1-200pds was the biggest guy.

now, of course Pleks/DD/Eller are not in the same league as Fedorov/Yzerman/Datsyuk, but the point remains that "size" as a measure of the effectivness of a player is way overstated.

our top 9 needed to get tougher, and with Cole/Bourque that has been somewhat addressed. More important than adding some mythical "big #1C", is improving the top-9.

Bourque - Pleks - Gionta
MaxPac - DD - Cole
(Moen/Gomez) - Eller - (Kost)

that's what he have right now heading into next season. Instead of waisting assets trying to upgrade at C, i think the team would be much better off getting rid of Gomez's cap hit, keeping one of Moen/Kost, and then adding a top-9 winger with grit/scoring touch.

Leblanc/Gallagher/Palushaj/Engqvist give us pretty decent depth from the AHL (and perhaps one of them comes into camp and earns a spot)

obviously, if a no-brainer deal comes accross the table to get a Staal/Getzlaf type, then you make the deal, but given the pedigree of those guys, realistically it would cost a huge package to get either one, and quite likely the overall impact would be to weaken our roster, not improve it.


personally, i think adding a minute crunching, physical top-4 dman would be a much bigger positive impact on the team for next season, than adding up front.

add a Suter or Weber and this team is a contender
add a Stuart/Jackman/Gleason type, and we're much closer to contending




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
(1) Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, Leblanc, Bournival, Gomez, Engqvist, Pribyl...

(2) We have enough size on the wings to balance the "lack" of size of Plekanec and Desharnais. I did put lack in quotation because both players have a very high compete level.

Based on (1) and (2), I would vote "Keep our existing centers and draft the best player available".

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01-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
The problem is that these smaller centers for whom you're balancing, they still have to cover the bigger centers in the defensive end. That's why we get killed by any team with physical players. Our defensemen are only meant to mark two people.

You either have to go way of the Bruins with a Chara, McQuaid and Seidenberg on D or you go way of LA with Kopitar and Stoll at center. Just examples but you get the picture.
This might make a lick of sense if Plekanec 5'11 wasn't one of the league's better defensive centers. But he is so it doesn't.

Carter is a big downgrade from him in the defensive end and isn't particularly physically stronger either. Carter has reach (6'3" versus 5'11) but body mass is a better indicator of strength and they are equal there (both ~200 llbs).

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