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Phaneuf or Jackman

View Poll Results: Phaneuf or Jackman
Dion Phaneuf 105 66.04%
Barret Jackman 54 33.96%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-07-2004, 04:04 AM
  #26
cyrisweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
I'll wait until Phanuf has played A game in the NHL before I make a final decision. Until then, I'll take Jackman.

sounds good to me. Jackman without any hesitation.

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10-07-2004, 09:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hopkinator
Phaneuf.

Same.

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Old
10-07-2004, 09:38 AM
  #28
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What happened to Jackmans hype? Mark my words he is going to be the best defensive, physical defensman in the future. His offensive numbers wont help him, but he has proven, that a physical guy with no offence can win some type of trophy.

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10-07-2004, 10:02 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic
What happened to Jackmans hype? Mark my words he is going to be the best defensive, physical defensman in the future. His offensive numbers wont help him, but he has proven, that a physical guy with no offence can win some type of trophy.
He is too old now for HF.

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10-07-2004, 10:19 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by s7ark
If Phaneuf was putting up these numbers in the AHL even I might be inclined to switch my POV, but the fact is that he is dominating 16 and 17 year olds at the age of 19.
Huh? You make it sound like the majority of junior players are 16 and 17. You should know that isn't the case. Really weakens your point.

How about Phaneuf having a dominant World Juniors at age 18 against the best junior aged players in the world?

You make it out like he can't be projected because he hasn't turned pro yet. Weak excuse IMO. If you've watched him a lot and watched Jackman a lot then you should be able to have an opinion on who will be the better NHLer.

Defaulting to Jackman solely because he's played in the NHL reeks of ignorance about Phaneuf.

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10-07-2004, 10:53 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian_fanatic
What happened to Jackmans hype? Mark my words he is going to be the best defensive, physical defensman in the future. His offensive numbers wont help him, but he has proven, that a physical guy with no offence can win some type of trophy.
Hell I agree with you, a player like Adam Foote or Robyn Regehr should get a trophy for what they do, but they don't.

That beind said between a Rob Blake or and Adam Foote, I still choose Fote.

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10-07-2004, 11:25 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Huh? You make it sound like the majority of junior players are 16 and 17. You should know that isn't the case. Really weakens your point.

How about Phaneuf having a dominant World Juniors at age 18 against the best junior aged players in the world?

You make it out like he can't be projected because he hasn't turned pro yet. Weak excuse IMO. If you've watched him a lot and watched Jackman a lot then you should be able to have an opinion on who will be the better NHLer.

Defaulting to Jackman solely because he's played in the NHL reeks of ignorance about Phaneuf.
Yes I am aware that most people in junior aren't 16 or 17. But some are and these children aren't going to offer Phaneuf any kind of competition. He is far too good and experienced in junior for them.

Yes Phaneuf did dominate against the best JUNIORS in the world. I never said he wasn't a great prospect. But Jackman played very well against the best PLAYERS in the world. Bit of a difference there. Saying Phaneuf will be better simply because he has dominated against far inferior competition is a bit short sighted, don't you think?

And yes, you can project a future for Phaneuf based on his junior play. My point is that the margin of error for a player jumping 2 levels of play (CHL -> AHL-> NHL) is quite large. Yes Phaneuf maybe a house when he gets to the NHL. Or maybe he will find that playing aginst 240 pound powerforwards is a bit tougher then 160 pound wingers from junior. Most likely it will be somewhere in between, leaning towards him being a great player. Lets put it this way. I don't think you'll see Phaneuf scoring 7 points in his first 3 games in the NHL.

And yes, you are correct that picking Jackman over Phaneuf just because he has played in the NHL would reek of ignorance about Phaneuf. Good thing I am not doing that hey? I am picking a great young player who has ALREADY proven he can play very well at the NHL level and looks to have a great career ahead of him, over a guy who is still in Juniors and we really have no idea how well he'll do in the big leagues. A lot of signs point to Phaneuf becoming a player, but Jackman is already a player. And I like the sure thing in Jackman.

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Old
10-07-2004, 12:05 PM
  #33
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It's funny, because a year or two from now, everyone here hailing Phaneuf as the next great thing, even if he proves it in the NHL, will gladly toss him aside for the next overhyped draftee.

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10-07-2004, 02:46 PM
  #34
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Old
10-07-2004, 02:58 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
It's funny, because a year or two from now, everyone here hailing Phaneuf as the next great thing, even if he proves it in the NHL, will gladly toss him aside for the next overhyped draftee.
Nobody is tossing Jackman aside. Most people feel that Dion Phaneuf will be a better player in the future. What's so wrong with that ?? I bet if you asked 30 GM's which player they would take right now, you would probably get 20-25 Dion Phaneuf's. Phaneuf is only overhyped because you want him to be a bust. He's no more overhyped than Zherdev, Suter, Fleury, Malkin, Horton, Michalek etc....

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10-07-2004, 03:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Nobody is tossing Jackman aside. Most people feel that Dion Phaneuf will be a better player in the future. What's so wrong with that ?? I bet if you asked 30 GM's which player they would take right now, you would probably get 20-25 Dion Phaneuf's. Phaneuf is only overhyped because you want him to be a bust. He's no more overhyped than Zherdev, Suter, Fleury, Malkin, Horton, Michalek etc....
Who said I wanted him to be a bust? I voted him as the third best prospect in the NHL.

http://www.hfboards.com/poll.php?do=...s&pollid=12392

And I highly doubt 20-25 GMs would take Phaneuf. At least 15 would take Jackman, especially those in a "win now"-mode.

Mark my words, in a year or two, everyone here (Flames-fans exlcuded) WILL toss Phaneuf aside for the newest flavour-of -the-week. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

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10-07-2004, 04:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Who said I wanted him to be a bust? I voted him as the third best prospect in the NHL.

http://www.hfboards.com/poll.php?do=...s&pollid=12392

And I highly doubt 20-25 GMs would take Phaneuf. At least 15 would take Jackman, especially those in a "win now"-mode.

Mark my words, in a year or two, everyone here (Flames-fans exlcuded) WILL toss Phaneuf aside for the newest flavour-of -the-week. It's happened before, it'll happen again.
I'll take your word for it I guess but I certainly do not function that way. If Jackman was the same age as Phaneuf right now, we would be able to see how much better Phaneuf is at 19 compared to Jackman when he was 19. Just because Jackman is older, you feel that 15 GM's would take him ?? Not me.

As for the GM's taking Jackman because they are in a "win now mode". If they were smart GM's, they would take Phaneuf and trade him for someone better than Jackman. We will never know but I just can't see half the teams in the NHL choosing Jackman over Phaneuf, regardless of their situation.

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Old
10-07-2004, 04:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Mark my words, in a year or two, everyone here (Flames-fans exlcuded) WILL toss Phaneuf aside for the newest flavour-of -the-week. It's happened before, it'll happen again.
That is interesting. No one has tossed aside Jay Bouwmeester or Joni Pitkanen yet Ryan Suter and Dion Phaneuf are the new "flavour-of-the-week"

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10-07-2004, 04:10 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
I'll take your word for it I guess but I certainly do not function that way. If Jackman was the same age as Phaneuf right now, we would be able to see how much better Phaneuf is at 19 compared to Jackman when he was 19. Just because Jackman is older, you feel that 15 GM's would take him ?? Not me.

As for the GM's taking Jackman because they are in a "win now mode". If they were smart GM's, they would take Phaneuf and trade him for someone better than Jackman. We will never know but I just can't see half the teams in the NHL choosing Jackman over Phaneuf, regardless of their situation.
Well, if those 30 GMs had to give a roster spot to one of them right now, I'd guarentee most would give it to the legitimate top-four defender, rather than take a chance on Phaneuf, no-matter how high his upside.

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10-07-2004, 04:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Shane
Well, if those 30 GMs had to give a roster spot to one of them right now, I'd guarentee most would give it to the legitimate top-four defender, rather than take a chance on Phaneuf, no-matter how high his upside.
Not to get to off track here, but Barret Jackmen certainly isn't a legit top 4 blueliner just yet. He had a very good rookie season and barely played last year, the guy has established himself as an NHL'er but not a top 4 blueliner.

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10-07-2004, 04:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Not to get to off track here, but Barret Jackmen certainly isn't a legit top 4 blueliner just yet. He had a very good rookie season and barely played last year, the guy has established himself as an NHL'er but not a top 4 blueliner.
He plays a top-four role. And has thrived in that role. How is he not a top-four guy?

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10-07-2004, 04:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
Well, if those 30 GMs had to give a roster spot to one of them right now, I'd guarentee most would give it to the legitimate top-four defender, rather than take a chance on Phaneuf, no-matter how high his upside.
Who said anything about a roster spot ?? Phaneuf can play WHL or AHL, no team would HAVE to give him a roster spot yet. The original argument was over which player the GM's would take, nothing about a roster spot.

Also, Jackman has been injury prone lately, GM's would definitely take a look at that.

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10-07-2004, 04:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield
Who said anything about a roster spot ?? Phaneuf can play WHL or AHL, no team would HAVE to give him a roster spot yet. The original argument was over which player the GM's would take, nothing about a roster spot.

Also, Jackman has been injury prone lately, GM's would definitely take a look at that.
Well, you threw in the idea that a GM would take Phaneuf and trade him for someone better than Jackman.

I'm just saying that in a hypothetical situation where a GM had to choose (and that's all this is, a hypothetical situation), that if the GM hypothetically had to give a roster spot to one of the two, that the proportion of GMs choosing Phaneuf would be significantly less.

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10-07-2004, 05:44 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Yes Phaneuf did dominate against the best JUNIORS in the world. I never said he wasn't a great prospect. But Jackman played very well against the best PLAYERS in the world. Bit of a difference there. Saying Phaneuf will be better simply because he has dominated against far inferior competition is a bit short sighted, don't you think?
Quick - Samsonov or Ovechkin?

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10-07-2004, 06:25 PM
  #45
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Quick - Samsonov or Ovechkin?

Ovechkin. But he is in another league in terms of prospects. Basically in my mind it is Ovechkin, Crosby, Lehtonen and then a big drop to the next prospect.

And my rational there is that the upsides are significantly different between Ovechkin and Samsonov, whereas I don't the a HUGE difference between Jackman and Phaneuf. Ovechkin is thought of as the best Russian ever drafted and that is enough to get past the fact that Samsonov has already proven his worth.

Both Jackman and Phaneuf are very physical defensemen who are know more for their hitting and defense then their offense.

Here are Jackman's WHL stats BTW

1999-00 Regina WHL 53 9 37 46 -10 175 - -
1998-99 Regina WHL 70 8 36 44 -9 259 - -
1997-98 Regina WHL 68 2 11 13 +30 224

Pretty similar to Phaneuf's.

2003-04 Red Deer WHL 62 19 24 43 +11 126 - -
2002-03 Red Deer WHL 71 16 14 30 +28 185 - -
2001-02 Red Deer WHL 67 5 12 17 +21 170

Less goals, but more points for Jackman. And from what I have seen of both, their defensive play is comparably exceptional and both are very physical. Phaneuf's potential upside maybe a bit higher, but I don't see it as so far above as to choose him over Jackman. But hey, this is only my opinion. It'll be proven right or wrong only by time, my friend

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Old
10-07-2004, 06:36 PM
  #46
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Phaneuf.

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10-07-2004, 09:17 PM
  #47
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Wow. This thread is the epitomy of everything that is wrong with these boards. A year ago today, not a single person would have chosen Phaneuf. One great tournament by Phaneuf and a shoulder injury by Jackman and suddenly things are completely reversed.

Phaneuf may end up being a better player than Jackman, but I doubt you'd find a single GM that would trade Jackman for Phaneuf if they had the opportunity today. Conversely, I'd bet at least half would trade Phaneuf for Jackman single because one of these two players has actually lived up to the hype and one has not... yet.

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10-07-2004, 09:26 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Wow. This thread is the epitomy of everything that is wrong with these boards. A year ago today, not a single person would have chosen Phaneuf. One great tournament by Phaneuf and a shoulder injury by Jackman and suddenly things are completely reversed.

Phaneuf may end up being a better player than Jackman, but I doubt you'd find a single GM that would trade Jackman for Phaneuf if they had the opportunity today. Conversely, I'd bet at least half would trade Phaneuf for Jackman single because one of these two players has actually lived up to the hype and one has not... yet.
Wow, I guess it just never occured to you that prospects can move up the rankings. I guess you must have been shocked the way Korpikoski was in the 1st round, after not being on the radar at all. Or that Dustin Boyd dropped to the middle rounds after being a touted a 1st round pick. Or Andrew Ladd was drafted at all, after being passed in the WHL draft.

And how can you be so sure that you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Phaneuf over Jackman? Because its in your opinion?

And how has Phaneuf not lived up to his hype yet? He seems to be impressing so far this season.

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10-07-2004, 09:27 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Ovechkin. But he is in another league in terms of prospects. Basically in my mind it is Ovechkin, Crosby, Lehtonen and then a big drop to the next prospect.
Why is Phaneuf a big drop from Lehtonen?

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10-07-2004, 09:49 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Why is Phaneuf a big drop from Lehtonen?
Besides being a goalie, there isn't.

Of course Phaneuf is a Flame, so that drops him fast.

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