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Phaneuf or Jackman

View Poll Results: Phaneuf or Jackman
Dion Phaneuf 105 66.04%
Barret Jackman 54 33.96%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-07-2004, 11:36 PM
  #51
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Phaneuf may end up being a better player than Jackman, but I doubt you'd find a single GM that would trade Jackman for Phaneuf if they had the opportunity today.
You might be surprised...

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10-07-2004, 11:52 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
And how can you be so sure that you wouldn't find a single GM that would take Phaneuf over Jackman? Because its in your opinion?
It's a concept that not nearly enough people practice on this board... COMMON SENSE.

No GM would trade a proven 22 year old defenseman for one that may or may not even make the NHL.

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10-07-2004, 11:54 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Wow, I guess it just never occured to you that prospects can move up the rankings. I guess you must have been shocked the way Korpikoski was in the 1st round, after not being on the radar at all. Or that Dustin Boyd dropped to the middle rounds after being a touted a 1st round pick. Or Andrew Ladd was drafted at all, after being passed in the WHL draft.
What does this have to do with anything I said?

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10-07-2004, 11:58 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Why is Phaneuf a big drop from Lehtonen?
Because Lehtonen is just that good. I think Phaneuf is a great prospect (and I pick him in this poll), Lehtonen on the other hand is just out of this world. I'd take Lehtonen over Ovechkin at this point.

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Old
10-08-2004, 12:54 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Why is Phaneuf a big drop from Lehtonen?

Have you seen him play? The last games of the season that he played in the NHL removed all doubt I may have had about him. Lehtonen is absolutely insane. The best goalie prospect I have ever seen. Keep in mind I am 28 so I didn't really see to much junior Roy or Brodeur.

I would go so far as to rate his potential as up there with the greatest Euro goalies ever in Hasek and Tretiak.

There was a video of some hi-light saves of his from last year around the board a while ago. I think in the Prospects section. If you haven't already seen it.

Darn it I just checked and the video is gone. Anyone have a copy or know where one is?

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10-08-2004, 01:01 AM
  #56
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I usually try to be fairly reserved when really throwing the hype on prospects. I'm certainly not one of these guys who is prepared to call Ovechkin the best Russian play of all time, or claim that Crosby will break one of Gretzky's records, and I don't think the Bouwmeester is the next Orr.

That all being said, Kari Lehtonen is one of the few prospects I've seen where I actually find myself thinking: this guy could be one of the great players, at his position, of all time.

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10-08-2004, 01:10 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
It's a concept that not nearly enough people practice on this board... COMMON SENSE.

No GM would trade a proven 22 year old defenseman for one that may or may not even make the NHL.
Since when is it common sense that a GM wouldn't trade a 22 year old defenseman for Phaneuf? Are you a GM?

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10-08-2004, 01:12 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Have you seen him play? The last games of the season that he played in the NHL removed all doubt I may have had about him. Lehtonen is absolutely insane. The best goalie prospect I have ever seen. Keep in mind I am 28 so I didn't really see to much junior Roy or Brodeur.

I would go so far as to rate his potential as up there with the greatest Euro goalies ever in Hasek and Tretiak.

There was a video of some hi-light saves of his from last year around the board a while ago. I think in the Prospects section. If you haven't already seen it.

Darn it I just checked and the video is gone. Anyone have a copy or know where one is?
Hey, I have no doubt that Kari Lehtonen is a great player. Heck, I was one of the only ones saying I'd draft him 1st overall (ahead of Jay Bouwmeester).

But I really think you underestimate Phaneuf if you think it's that big of a drop. You might compare Lehtonen to names like Hasek, but professional scouts compare Phaneuf to Stevens.

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10-08-2004, 01:13 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
What does this have to do with anything I said?
Are you laughing because you have trouble connecting the dots?

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10-08-2004, 12:01 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Phaneuf may end up being a better player than Jackman, but I doubt you'd find a single GM that would trade Jackman for Phaneuf if they had the opportunity today.
1. Obviously pure speculation on your part.

2. I really doubt this would be the case. Sutter is convinced Phaneuf would be playing in the NHL this year if the season was happening so unless a team needed to win THIS year, there's no obvious reason to take Jackman. I'm pretty sure most GM's and scouts would recognize that Phaneuf has the higher upside and is a surefire NHLer.

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10-08-2004, 05:25 PM
  #61
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I would take Phaneuf b/c he has a much higher upside to his game than Jackman does. If Phaneuf fails to reach his potential you will end up with a player like Jackman, one dimensional physcial defensive defenseman. but I guess there is always the possibility wiht any prospect that they can be Complete busts. With Phaneuf you still have the upside of him being a very good offensive and defensive defenseman who is also very physical which I believe is much more valuable to most NHL teams than just a physical defensive defenseman.

I dont think the arguement that I would take Jackman now over Phaneuf b/c Jackman is a proven NHLer is a very good one. I think it just means you have difficulty projecting players potential. By that logic you would take a guy like Corey Stillman or Steve Begin over a prospect like Sydney Crosby b/c Crosbey is just playing against children and may just be over hyped. Why even come to this thread that compares a prospect to a proven NHLer if you dont even think much of projecting prospects potential in the first place??

For the arguement of NHL GM all takeing Jackman rihgt now over Phaneuf b/c Jackman is proven isn't a very good statement. I woudl highly doubt that all GM's or even most of them woudl not take into consideration Phaneufs "potential" and future season with haveing him in the lineup playing at that potential. Its a risk but its a big enough risk that I think many people woudl really think about. I beleive Sutter made a comment this year about which player teams have been asking him about the most. I beleive Sutter said Phaneuf is the player in the organization that has been asked about in regasrds to tradeing for the most out of the entire Flames organization. That statement alone shows what alot of NHL GMs think of Phaneuf, though it doesn't say what they were offereing but you can take it as a sign that alot of GMs think his upside is very interesting.

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10-08-2004, 10:17 PM
  #62
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Phaneuf

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Old
10-09-2004, 11:22 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Hunter74
I dont think the arguement that I would take Jackman now over Phaneuf b/c Jackman is a proven NHLer is a very good one. I think it just means you have difficulty projecting players potential. By that logic you would take a guy like Corey Stillman or Steve Begin over a prospect like Sydney Crosby
What a load of crap. The argument that one would take Jackman over Phaneuf is a good one because it's reality. I know reality is hard for many HF posters such as yourself to grasp, but when you're building a franchise you make smart decisions. Picking the proven of two similar players is a smart decision. Picking a potential Gretzky over an inconsistant, streaky, player such as Stillman is a smart decision. What a stupid, stupid comparison.

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Old
10-09-2004, 11:27 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Since when is it common sense that a GM wouldn't trade a 22 year old defenseman for Phaneuf? Are you a GM?
You know... I would absolutely love to see what you reponse would be if Jackman was a flame and some other team offered you Phaneuf for him. My guess it would be something along the lines of... "BWAHAHAHAHAH. You expect me to trade a proven 22 year old defenseman for a younger, unproven version of himself?"

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10-09-2004, 05:32 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
You know... I would absolutely love to see what you reponse would be if Jackman was a flame and some other team offered you Phaneuf for him. My guess it would be something along the lines of... "BWAHAHAHAHAH. You expect me to trade a proven 22 year old defenseman for a younger, unproven version of himself?"
Another guess?

We have a Jackman on our team, named Robyn Regehr. If I were to pick between the two, I'd take Phaneuf.

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10-09-2004, 05:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
You know... I would absolutely love to see what you reponse would be if Jackman was a flame and some other team offered you Phaneuf for him. My guess it would be something along the lines of... "BWAHAHAHAHAH. You expect me to trade a proven 22 year old defenseman for a younger, unproven version of himself?"
You are making the assumption that everyone sees Jackman and Phaneuf at the same level. If you think they are then Jackman is the guy, but many people see Phaneuf being a superior type of player.

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Old
10-09-2004, 08:21 PM
  #67
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Phaneuf; A complete package a la Rob Blake ou Denis Potvin. I really like these Kid; He's nasty as Jackman but his upside skills and his point shot make him more valuable to me then our Barret Jacky-Jack-man

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10-09-2004, 09:14 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Phaneuf. He's like Jackman with an extra two inches of height and a better shot.
Phaneuf is 6'3'' now?

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Old
10-09-2004, 09:30 PM
  #69
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
What a load of crap. The argument that one would take Jackman over Phaneuf is a good one because it's reality. I know reality is hard for many HF posters such as yourself to grasp, but when you're building a franchise you make smart decisions. Picking the proven of two similar players is a smart decision.
It's not, if you think the umproven player can give you more.

There's a balance of risk and rewards here.

There's a (ridiculously small) possibility that Phaneuf might bust. There's a possibility he might end up an inferior NHL player. There's a possibility he will be very similar. And there's a possibility he will be a superior player.

If you're willing to bank he will be a superior player, you pick him. It's a simple concept to grasp but somehow you continue to preach about a "reality" that exists in your head only.

Players and prospects are traded all the time for proven NHL players. But somehow you'd like everybody to believe every NHL GMs does this or that. Doesn't work that way.

You don't think Phaneuf is worth the risk. That's the truth of the matter. Say it, and deal with the fact others disagree. Especially since in this case, they are right to do so. Don't come here with that make up story that GMs always choose the proven commodity.

They don't.

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10-11-2004, 08:36 AM
  #70
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Dion Phaneuf

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Old
10-11-2004, 02:20 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Phaneuf is 6'3'' now?
Yup.
http://www.reddeerrebels.com/players.php?player_id=189

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10-12-2004, 01:12 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
I'll wait until Phanuf has played A game in the NHL before I make a final decision. Until then, I'll take Jackman.
Ditto.

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10-12-2004, 01:55 AM
  #73
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I am kinda surprised at how many people on this board dont really understand the concept of prospect potential and what its worth is in the NHL. If I am not mistaken but wasn't Washington offered alot of good deals that had some pretty good players involved for the chance at drafting Ovechkin who is just an unproven prospect. That right there shows that GMs do value the unproven potential of prospects and what impact a solid prosect can have on a franchise.


In this thread there are obviously those who dont know much about Dion Phaneuf except for his well documented ability to make those open ice hits. If you think Phaneuf was drafted in order to be a Jackman then you need to read up and watch Phaneuf play b/c Phaneuf has tonns more offense than Jackman does. The only thing Barret and Dion have in common is ther physical game and maybe the defensive side of the game as Barret has very little if any offensive ability while Dion has alot of offensive ability.


Personally i dont think the safe pick out of Jackman and Phaneuf would be Jackman. maybe for that 1st year or 2nd it would be but once Phaneuf adjusts to the NHL and plays to his potential then you will realise that by not takeing that chance on the less "proven" (why even draft when you could just trade your picks for "proven" players ) player you have actually failed to sieze an opportunity to significantly improve your franchise.Yeah theres always a chance he may be a bust but if Phaneuf doesn't reach half his potential he will still be a better version than Jackman. Of course if you beleive Phaneufs potential is just to be another version of Jackman than what would be the point of tradeing for him when you can have the proven Jackman right now right. Thats if you think Phaneuf is just a unproven version of Jackman at best.

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10-13-2004, 01:42 PM
  #74
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Jackman

You all talk like Jackman has no offensive game at all.

He got 19 pts his rookie year, without getting any powerplay time. Jackman should be able to score 25-35 points yearly. He will never lead the league in scoring, but he has upside.


Last edited by BlueBleeder: 10-13-2004 at 01:55 PM.
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10-13-2004, 06:54 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBleeder
Jackman

You all talk like Jackman has no offensive game at all.

He got 19 pts his rookie year, without getting any powerplay time. Jackman should be able to score 25-35 points yearly. He will never lead the league in scoring, but he has upside.
it's not that Jackman has no offensive game, but Phaneuf right now has one less goal in 10 games as a 19 year old in the WHL than Jackman had in 43 games at the same age

so I think it is fair to say that Phaneuf has considerably more offensive upsidethan Jackman

look I can understand someone picking Jackman because he is an excellent proven young NHL Player. I can also understand someone picking Phaneuf because he appears to be a player with a very special upside

what I can't understand is someone dismissing either player out of hand, as some people on both sides seem to be doing

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