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UFAs / Roster Changes / Trades / Qualifying Offers 2011? Part V

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Old
04-10-2012, 06:14 AM
  #951
Gliff
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
<= would love to become a source. Hell yeah.

Also:
we may have found "Eklunds source" form over the years, Vipers dreams

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04-10-2012, 07:44 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Playing a rookie 5 mins a night with spot PK or PP time doesn't seem smart for development IMO.

Your 4th line being able to play a regular shift is very valuable IMO, especially if you're able to reach the playoffs. I immediately think of Boston's last cup team, and our series against Nashville. Our 4th line was terrible, and their players were able to be more rested due to their 4th line being able to handle more playing time.

IMO the era of the enforcer is all but dead. I don't mind having one on the roster for the few teams that dress several guys that may need to be dealt with, but he needs to be a healthy scratch more games then not. I'd rather build a 4th line that can handle a regular shift that has someone who's willing to drop the gloves, but is a good player. Keep a goon as a healthy scratch and for the "tougher teams" replace him for Beleskey.
5 min a night plus special teams is a little low, but not too bad. Getzlaf and Perry got about 8 plus special teams. But the year end average would end up much more if the rookie moves into the proposed top 9. In those games the rookie would get some 14+ minutes a night.

I agree that we were worn out vs Nashville. But my proposed way also deals with that a little. It was the top line that was overplayed (they had like 24-25 minutes a game). So all you have to do is take time away from them. Rather than give it to the 4th line, as you suggest, I'm saying give it to both the 2nd and 3rd lines. Yes it'd be nicer to roll 4 lines. But I think that 4th line will be expensive, which is hard with our budget.

So you want the 4th line to play a regular shift. How many minutes? Put together a distribution. There's about 50 EV minutes a game. Especially if you distribute them evenly, I think what you'll see is that the big guns will get too few minutes. For example say you want them to play 11-12-13-14 minutes. That means Getzlaf and Perry get about 17 (14 plus say 3/5 PP minutes) minutes a game. Would you be happy with that?


Long term, if we're keeping Ryan, I think I want him on the second line, and on the right wing. Anchor that line, have the puck on his natural side so he's more likely to hold on to it and do things with his hands rather than shooting.

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04-10-2012, 09:07 AM
  #953
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i think some of these guys all UFA and cheap could help our depth

TOM KOSTOPOULOS
TRAVIS MOEN
JORDIN TOOTOO
TANNER GLASS
RUSLAN FEDOTENKO
LEE STEMPNIAK

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04-10-2012, 09:15 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
<= would love to become a source. Hell yeah.

Also:
Well with all the drama surrounding 1.FC Köln you have a chance with the local paper over there

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Old
04-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #955
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I thought we had this discussion last year and ES time was just over 51? Meh, can't remember. I'd be happy with this:

Line 1: 16 mins
2 & 3: 13 mins
Line 4: 8 mins

If I'm thinking it right, that puts Getz and Perry just under 20 mins a game. Obviously numbers could fluctuate each game. I also like it this way because I think it helps with depth in case of injuries.

Now with this all said, I 100% agree that Murray should focus on top 3 lines first. Honesty I think adding a very good 2nd line center makes this happen almost instantly. Anyway, my point is that I think the other lines should be addressed first, and then, If there's room in the budget, go after a 4th line player like moen.

For the record, I agree about Ryan. I've always said that if Ryan can't anchor his own line, he needs to go. We can't pay him what he's making to ride shotgun next to Getz and perry. I think he can though. Throughout the season I've said I don't think he is a good fit with either Selanne or Ryan. People were quick to point out his production increased when it didn't matter, but that's not how I saw it. I saw his play and production go up when he was being used properly. If he fails with a top center and palmieri, then yeah, it's time for him to go. However, I think he would succeed in that role.

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04-10-2012, 12:01 PM
  #956
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I personally consider Moen a 3rd liner, at least in a decent year from him. If Murray goes after him it should be for the 3rd line, no need to toss the money he's worth on 4th liners. There's plenty of forwards who are capable of playing 7-8 minutes on a 4th line effectively for a mil or less...

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04-10-2012, 12:59 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
I thought we had this discussion last year and ES time was just over 51? Meh, can't remember. I'd be happy with this:

Line 1: 16 mins
2 & 3: 13 mins
Line 4: 8 mins

If I'm thinking it right, that puts Getz and Perry just under 20 mins a game. Obviously numbers could fluctuate each game. I also like it this way because I think it helps with depth in case of injuries.

Now with this all said, I 100% agree that Murray should focus on top 3 lines first. Honesty I think adding a very good 2nd line center makes this happen almost instantly. Anyway, my point is that I think the other lines should be addressed first, and then, If there's room in the budget, go after a 4th line player like moen.

For the record, I agree about Ryan. I've always said that if Ryan can't anchor his own line, he needs to go. We can't pay him what he's making to ride shotgun next to Getz and perry. I think he can though. Throughout the season I've said I don't think he is a good fit with either Selanne or Ryan. People were quick to point out his production increased when it didn't matter, but that's not how I saw it. I saw his play and production go up when he was being used properly. If he fails with a top center and palmieri, then yeah, it's time for him to go. However, I think he would succeed in that role.
Yeah I think we did have a conversation like that. Or maybe this is just a time-warp like this thread already had.

8 min for the 4th line isn't really a regular shift. What you outlined isn't all that different from what I said in terms of the 4th line minutes. So yeah I'd be OK with that. I'm just saying I think it would be easy to save some more $ by going with that line even less.


A couple things to clarify from my earlier post though.

When I said rookie on the fourth, it's not a hipot rookie like a Getzlaf or a Ryan. I just mean to designate some time for a lower tier guy. Something the team doesn't often do. Think Beleskey (although he's not a rookie, he's a young guy who will be on the team because of the 1-way contract). Or maybe a Bonino, a Maroon, or a DSP. The key is give them a spot, and give them time. Don't scratch them etc. Upper tier guys would get 14, 15 minutes on line 2 or 3.

Also that's just an ice time template, and not a team style template. For example the 3rd line could still be a checking line or whatever. All I care is that they take care of those minutes without being negative. In fact my ice time template is derived from our Cup year. The 4th line of that team only got like 4 minutes. 1st line got 14 minutes, "3rd" line got 14 minutes, "2nd" line got 13 minutes, 4th line gets like 4 minutes. But one guy on the 4th, Marchant, was a PK specialist and fill-in guy, so he gets like 10 minutes ES.

In this structure, it's possible Cogliano could be the 4th line + specialist. He plays all positions, he can play the PK. And his 2.4 million isn't any worse than the 2.5 million we were paying Marchant at the time.

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04-10-2012, 03:47 PM
  #958
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I personally consider Moen a 3rd liner, at least in a decent year from him. If Murray goes after him it should be for the 3rd line, no need to toss the money he's worth on 4th liners. There's plenty of forwards who are capable of playing 7-8 minutes on a 4th line effectively for a mil or less...
I think snark and I calculated it up a few months ago, and actualy average ES time is just under 52 mins a game. That would put Moen at about 8-9 mins ES while being a fixture on the PK. So that's about 11 mins or so of ice time a game. I dont see that as a problem, especially considering it provides great depth and he can fill in on other lines in case of injuries.

As I said earlier, Moen is really a luxury though. I want the 2nd line center position addressed before anything. A player of that salary on the 4th line is not a necessity, but a luxury. Let's see first 3 lines addressed before worrying too much about 4th line.

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04-11-2012, 09:52 AM
  #959
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Not a rumor, not a speculation but a wish. Bob is here in good old europe and I hope he brings Damien Brunner to the Ducks!

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=18949

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Old
04-11-2012, 12:54 PM
  #960
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Not a rumor, not a speculation but a wish. Bob is here in good old europe and I hope he brings Damien Brunner to the Ducks!

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=18949
I think that Brunner could be a good pickup considering Ducks' luck with Swiss players.

If there's one Finnish player I wished that Murray went after, it's Leo Komarov. Smart bottom 6 player who can play any position, plays physically, agitates, fights if needs to and can score goals. Looks up to Jarkko Ruutu and plays like him too. Has less size but makes up for it with better overall hockey skills. He shouldn't be too expensive and he wants to play in the NHL.

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04-11-2012, 01:04 PM
  #961
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Patrick Thoresen (SKA St. Petersburg) could be a great 3rd line LW/C.

PPG player in Russia...great forechecker who could produce as well. Was rumoured to Ducks in 2010 summer, but he decided to go for the money in Russia at that time. Contract expires next season.

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04-11-2012, 01:23 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by quentez View Post
Patrick Thoresen (SKA St. Petersburg) could be a great 3rd line LW/C.

PPG player in Russia...great forechecker who could produce as well. Was rumoured to Ducks in 2010 summer, but he decided to go for the money in Russia at that time. Contract expires next season.
I'm wondering why he still hasn't come back to NA and try make it in the show. I seem to remember Flyers (and Oilers) fans liking him and the gritty style of play he brought. I don't know whether or not Ducks should pursue him, but it would make some sense considering Murray seems to favor skill instead of size and physical play in the bottom six.

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04-11-2012, 01:35 PM
  #963
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I'm not sure what offer he got last time he was available for NHL. He said anything but a one-way contract would be out of the question.

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04-11-2012, 02:05 PM
  #964
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I don't see the need for that guy anymore unless we are moving cogliano, which id be ok with.

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04-13-2012, 12:46 AM
  #965
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I wonder what it would take to aquire Brayden Schenn from Philly. Dude was downright hard hitting brutal against the pens last night. Scored his first playoff goal and 2 assists. And he's a Center!

I would deff give up our first and a plus for him.

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04-13-2012, 01:27 AM
  #966
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Holmgren reportedly offered Schenn and a first for Ryan.

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Old
04-13-2012, 01:34 AM
  #967
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I heard that from somebody too. Is/was there also an online source that said that?

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04-13-2012, 03:06 AM
  #968
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Holmgren reportedly offered Schenn and a first for Ryan.
May pull the trigger on this one. If he continues his nastiness hits and has point totals its a guaranteed go. We need some physicality in our lineup. Would be a complimentary to our 2nd line with DSP forechecking hard and taking no for an answer.

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04-13-2012, 03:29 AM
  #969
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May pull the trigger on this one. If he continues his nastiness hits and has point totals its a guaranteed go. We need some physicality in our lineup. Would be a complimentary to our 2nd line with DSP forechecking hard and taking no for an answer.
So your solution is to trade Bobby. wow

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04-13-2012, 03:34 AM
  #970
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I heard that from somebody too. Is/was there also an online source that said that?
I would have to look around for it but it was someone fairly reliable from what I remember. I'll see if I can find an article. It was a 1st + a choice of Schenn/JVR IIRC.

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04-13-2012, 03:40 AM
  #971
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So your solution is to trade Bobby. wow
If you haven't been watching the phillies series it's down right brutal. It's playoff time..... If I can gain a solid young center on the 2nd line and trade bobby for him and obviously a plus coming back due to rookie season.... Yes I do it. We need physicality bro!

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04-13-2012, 04:05 AM
  #972
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If you haven't been watching the phillies series it's down right brutal. It's playoff time..... If I can gain a solid young center on the 2nd line and trade bobby for him and obviously a plus coming back due to rookie season.... Yes I do it. We need physicality bro!
Trading Bobby just creates another hole though. If Selanne retires, that leaves Perry as the only top 6 winger on the team. Don't forget that Perry could be gone this time next year as well. I know Ryan has struggled at times, but trading him to fill another hole is a mistake. We need someone to play on a line with him. If he fails with the new center, then yes, I think it would be time to move.

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04-13-2012, 04:35 AM
  #973
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Trading Bobby just creates another hole though. If Selanne retires, that leaves Perry as the only top 6 winger on the team. Don't forget that Perry could be gone this time next year as well. I know Ryan has struggled at times, but trading him to fill another hole is a mistake. We need someone to play on a line with him. If he fails with the new center, then yes, I think it would be time to move.
Word. Moving Ryan should only be considered after we've exhausted other options. We need the twins on extensions at the very least.

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04-13-2012, 04:37 AM
  #974
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Trading Bobby just creates another hole though. If Selanne retires, that leaves Perry as the only top 6 winger on the team. Don't forget that Perry could be gone this time next year as well. I know Ryan has struggled at times, but trading him to fill another hole is a mistake. We need someone to play on a line with him. If he fails with the new center, then yes, I think it would be time to move.
Yeah, I second this 1000 times and seem to reply promoting Ryan constantly.

I'd love to get a young, 2nd line center, but this team needs to trade for better players, not be the team giving up the best player in trades.

I mean, seriously. If you deal Ryan, who on this team is going to score goals next year? If Selanne is gone and Getz is barely hitting double digits in goals... Who? What? Why would you deal away Ryan?

I know we want a 2nd line center, but why is Bobby Ryan the first name that pops on anyone's lips as trade bait? Why isn't it, "I'd love to deal Cogs + a 2nd for that guy"

Why must Bobby Ryan be the most dispensable thing on this team? I think we have a lack of young guys who can score over 20 goals on this team. In fact, if Selanne is gone, I see 2 guys hitting over 20 goals next year, and one of them is named Bobby.

And Ryan is a guy who has fit well with every group of guys he has played on a line with and made that line better. The only time you can say he hasn't, has been with Getz and Perry.

And by the way, the Getz/Perry line has pretty much never had a winger with them that worked. However, Ryan has worked with every line he has been with outside of them.

It seems a no brainer to have Ryan on the second line, but it seems pretty thoughtless to think dishing Ryan to solve another hole makes this team better.

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04-13-2012, 05:28 AM
  #975
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I know we want a 2nd line center, but why is Bobby Ryan the first name that pops on anyone's lips as trade bait? Why isn't it, "I'd love to deal Cogs + a 2nd for that guy"

Because unlike Cogs + a 2nd, Ryan actually has value to other teams.

Why must Bobby Ryan be the most dispensable thing on this team? I think we have a lack of young guys who can score over 20 goals on this team. In fact, if Selanne is gone, I see 2 guys hitting over 20 goals next year, and one of them is named Bobby.

Ryan is the most dispensable thing on this team because he disappears for long stretches and can't be relied on on a regular basis.

And Ryan is a guy who has fit well with every group of guys he has played on a line with and made that line better. The only time you can say he hasn't, has been with Getz and Perry.

Ryan fit in fine with Getzlaf and Perry until this year

And by the way, the Getz/Perry line has pretty much never had a winger with them that worked. However, Ryan has worked with every line he has been with outside of them.

Penner, Kunitz, Ryan, Bertuzzi (the only time Bert was productive here was with the twins), Fedoruk. The only guys who didn't work were 4th liners in Blake, Hagman, Beleskey and Calder. That was a ridiculous statement to make


It seems a no brainer to have Ryan on the second line, but it seems pretty thoughtless to think dishing Ryan to solve another hole makes this team better.

I don't mind at all if Ryan is dealt. But only if it addresses the need for a 1B centre. We'd be dealing from a huge strength on the wing to get something we've been looking for since McDonald left. I don't want to see him dealt for picks and prospects so if he's gone, his replacement will ideally make the team better.

My answers to some of your points are in bold. As I said, I'm only for trading Ryan if we can get someone like Krejci back. Or else we're better off keeping him. The more I watch Ryan though the less I think he's a guy to build around. Unless he can fix his consistency issues I would rather have somebody else earning $5.1M to play in his spot.

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