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Trade Proposal Thread 4.0 - ***"Christian Thomas is the new Sauer+2nd" Edition***

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01-08-2012, 10:27 PM
  #201
Zil
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Soft was a poor choice of words. It would be more accurate to say that the 91-92 team was much more wide open. They weren't bad defensively, but that was a team more inclined toward offensive battles than defensive ones. This year's squad is much more of a grinding team. Plus, I don't really want this team to take roster building lessons from Neil Smith. He didn't exactly build a sustainable contender. Most teams don't become cup winners by trading their talented youth away.

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01-09-2012, 12:36 AM
  #202
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I'd be okay with Ruutu...for the right price.

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01-09-2012, 01:40 AM
  #203
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I franky don't care for Ryan, Hemsky or any of those guys who look like they may not have the intensity needed for this team.

IMO, we get Doan, and maybe Hall Gill for the playoffs.

Anisimov-Stepan-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan
Dubinsky-Boyle-Doan
Prust-Rupp-Fed/Hagelin

Girard-McD
MDZ-Stralman
Staal/Sauer
Gill

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01-09-2012, 02:47 AM
  #204
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Ah, so individual production is meaningless if the team isn't winning then huh? How about being on pace for 57 points while playing for one of the worst teams in the league? He's clearly still got the ability to play the game.... He would be a cheap acquisition and a player the current players and the head coach are familiar
with....
Where does he play ? On Richards LW ? Are those legs going to get in on the forecheck? And , yeah when your tram is losing 4-1 and you have the only goal or an A those points are annoy different than those in a closely contested hard fought game where every point and every goal matters . The BJs played the Ducks and lost 7-4 and Vaclav the great had an A , is that point equal to say a GWG or primary assist on a GWG or tying goal ? If it was they wouldn't keep track o GWG S ETC .... Prospal can still do a lot of things but if the NYR believed he could still help them wouldn't they have signed him ? I'd like Vinny if he was only used sporadically or to win a big draw or maybe as a PP guy but the reality is Torts will have him outbthere too much and he can not keep up with the pace the NYR need to play in order to make a run .

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01-09-2012, 03:30 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Where does he play ? On Richards LW ? Are those legs going to get in on the forecheck? And , yeah when your tram is losing 4-1 and you have the only goal or an A those points are annoy different than those in a closely contested hard fought game where every point and every goal matters . The BJs played the Ducks and lost 7-4 and Vaclav the great had an A , is that point equal to say a GWG or primary assist on a GWG or tying goal ? If it was they wouldn't keep track o GWG S ETC .... Prospal can still do a lot of things but if the NYR believed he could still help them wouldn't they have signed him ? I'd like Vinny if he was only used sporadically or to win a big draw or maybe as a PP guy but the reality is Torts will have him outbthere too much and he can not keep up with the pace the NYR need to play in order to make a run .
Prospal had a goal & an assist in this game. Not only an A. If you want to make a point - get the facts straight. Prospal knows the system. He is liked by coach & teammates. Veteran. Cheap. He can play on lines 1-3 at basically all positions. Perfect fit for the playoffs - but too much of a chance for an entire regular season. Sather was very shrewd here "borrowing him" to Columbus for the bigger part of the season (checking his health & condition) while being ready to swoop in to get him back at the deadline for a second & a midlevel prospect. I am pretty sure that is what we will see. We will get him, another tougher vet fwd and possibly a vet D without gutting our farm or sending away any core players. For a run - that will probably end in Beantown. But next year...

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01-09-2012, 05:26 AM
  #206
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I franky don't care for Ryan, Hemsky or any of those guys who look like they may not have the intensity needed for this team.

IMO, we get Doan, and maybe Hall Gill for the playoffs.

Anisimov-Stepan-Gaborik
Wolski-Richards-Callahan
Dubinsky-Boyle-Doan
Prust-Rupp-Fed/Hagelin

Girard-McD
MDZ-Stralman
Staal/Sauer
Gill
Wolski hasn't even cracked the line up since coming off the IR, I wouldn't go slotting him in the top 6 just yet.

That and if the Rangers make a move for Doan, which I'd fully support and agree with your assessment, it'd be to play in the top 6. He can play both wings from what I remember. To make Doans salary work I think Wolski would have to be moved in another deal first (I don't think Maloney would want him back in Phoenix) or waived. Line-up could look like:

Anisimov - Stepan - Gaborik
Doan - Richards - Callahan
Feds - Dubinsky - Hagelin
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

As long as Hagelin keepa up him play leading up until the deadline, I would not mind heading into the playoffs with this line-up at all. All the lines are strong in their own ends. The third line has solid offensive ability to go with their defensive awareness and the fourth line could pop in a few as well.

And I appologize for my spelling, these buttons on my Blackberry are freaking small. Can't wait until I'm eligible for an upgrade in a couple of months.


Last edited by UAGoalieGuy: 01-09-2012 at 05:41 AM.
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Old
01-09-2012, 06:34 AM
  #207
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there is no need to add to much. One rental LWer is enough
who would we need to send to phoenix to get whitney. he'd be awesome on the pp. and if we can't pickup another good LW free agent maybe give whitney a couple years??

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01-09-2012, 06:53 AM
  #208
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Looking at what some of the Rangers young players are in line to make in the near future,adding free agents means less money for those players.

The 91-92 team was never the same after a short players strike. That team could have won if Messier didn't suffer a rib injury in the Devils series. He barely played against Pitt. Graves got suspended for slashing Lemieux. Don't the buy the team lacked maturity theory. Richter gave up the Francis goal from the parking lost in game 4 with the Rangers up 4-2 in Pitt. Leading that series 2-1. Game 5 at home.

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01-09-2012, 07:33 AM
  #209
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Prospal...im not sure he's what the team needs at this point. But, I wouldn't be opposed to it at a VERY cheap price. Im talking about ONE mid-level prospect.

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01-09-2012, 07:49 AM
  #210
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The 91-92 team would beat the 93-94 team in a 7 game series. Messier won the Hart that year. Leetch the Norris. Pre-back injured Graves which he hurt in Devils series in 94. Messiers last great year. Leetch before he suffered nerve damage the following year.

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01-09-2012, 08:08 AM
  #211
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The Rangers need to add depth to their blue-line (as crazy as that sounds) for the playoff run. Bryan Allen would be a good addition.

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01-09-2012, 08:15 AM
  #212
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I wouldn't mind adding a Paul Mara-type (when he was good) to the back-end for the playoff run.

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01-09-2012, 08:29 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by blueshirtbolt View Post
who would we need to send to phoenix to get whitney. he'd be awesome on the pp. and if we can't pickup another good LW free agent maybe give whitney a couple years??
depends if they are out of it or not..........asking price to me is always a 2nd and hopefully thats it and if they add they add Zuccarello

that offer should get a nice rental winger

I think if all else fails they will try and get Prospal back for much less. Like a McCabe deal, 3rd rounder and AHL body

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01-09-2012, 08:33 AM
  #214
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Soft was a poor choice of words. It would be more accurate to say that the 91-92 team was much more wide open. They weren't bad defensively, but that was a team more inclined toward offensive battles than defensive ones. This year's squad is much more of a grinding team. Plus, I don't really want this team to take roster building lessons from Neil Smith. He didn't exactly build a sustainable contender. Most teams don't become cup winners by trading their talented youth away.
It's a two-way street. Post Isles/Oilers, some teams relied on their home-grown talent (Flames, Habs, Devils) while others traded away everybody and sold their souls (Rangers, Penguins, Stars).

What Smith never did was find a balance, and I blame it on the stupid strike season because the whole organization was aghast at finishing below .500 and getting swept in the 2nd round the year after they won the Cup, when in reality that 1995 Rangers team had an outstanding nucleus with some good chips to build around.

Smith operated under an entitle different set of circumstances. I think greed got the best of him in 1996, and it didnt help him that there was an endless amount of money at his disposal.

When you look at the 1992 team, you have to start with the draft. A surplus enabled Smith to acquire pieces and so on. I think within the next two years, Sather will deal some (and I mean a handful) of our excess prospects to acquire needed pieces for sustained success.

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01-09-2012, 08:38 AM
  #215
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The 91-92 team would beat the 93-94 team in a 7 game series. Messier won the Hart that year. Leetch the Norris. Pre-back injured Graves which he hurt in Devils series in 94. Messiers last great year. Leetch before he suffered nerve damage the following year.
You might be right, if you were to give the same Richter to both teams.

Beezer split some time with Richter to start the 91/92 playoffs, and just when it looked like Richter would be "the man" against Pittsburgh, he turned into a deer in headlights. Sad to think about what happened to that team.

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01-09-2012, 08:40 AM
  #216
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Looking at what some of the Rangers young players are in line to make in the near future,adding free agents means less money for those players.

The 91-92 team was never the same after a short players strike. That team could have won if Messier didn't suffer a rib injury in the Devils series. He barely played against Pitt. Graves got suspended for slashing Lemieux. Don't the buy the team lacked maturity theory. Richter gave up the Francis goal from the parking lost in game 4 with the Rangers up 4-2 in Pitt. Leading that series 2-1. Game 5 at home.
That was the prevailing excuse, but the Rangers blew out the Pens on the last day of the season (I think). They were fine heading into the playoffs.

The Pens were a better team. Plain and simple. They came back from 3-1 down to the Caps in Round 1. If they win Game 4, whose to say that the Pens without Mario couldnt come back to win the series?

Jagr, Francis and McEachern ran amok through the Rangers defense. Messier was a turnover machine. Beezer and Richter couldnt stop beach balls.

The Pens were the defending champs, won it again in 1992 and almost won 60 games the next season. They were a mini-dynasty, and the 1992 Rangers IMO were done when the Devils exposed them in Round 1.

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01-09-2012, 08:42 AM
  #217
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Maybe before we go trading the house for a LWer we should check out how Wolski and Zuccarello respond to that 2nd line position?

I don't think either will necessarily work but sometimes someone's garbage tends to be another team's treasure, and I would hate to look back in 2-3 years and see one of them lighting it up somewhere else because we neglected to do our due diligence.

Wolski seems the more likely to get the chance, and the more geared for scoring, he's just too damn inconsistent.

Zucarello wasn't given a fair shake this season, despite making leaps and bounds (according to all reports). He may have a lot of talent but he's just so undersized it kills us against a grittier line.

I'd like to see how both play on that 2nd line wing before we go trading for rentals or other stars. Who knows, maybe the solutions lies within our organization. I don't think that's the case but we have enough time before the deadline to at least test them out for a little.

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01-09-2012, 08:48 AM
  #218
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The 91-92 team would beat the 93-94 team in a 7 game series. Messier won the Hart that year. Leetch the Norris. Pre-back injured Graves which he hurt in Devils series in 94. Messiers last great year. Leetch before he suffered nerve damage the following year.
Disagree. For two reasons:

1) Neilsen. Terrible tactician. Like I said before, tried to goon it up against the Pens and it backfired. Keenan was an expert at line matching. No way a Nielsen-coach team neutralizes Bure the way the Rangers did in 1994

2) Defense: An injured Leetch, a prime Zubov, Lowe and Lidster beats a healthy Leetch, a prime Patrick and those scrubs Hardy and Cirella.



Staying on topic, I think the current team needs to do what both the 1992 and 1994 teams did -- get bottom-pairing and bottom-6 help.

Give me the 2011 version of Craig Mactavish and Jay Wells...Craig Adams and Cory Sarich maybe?????

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01-09-2012, 09:01 AM
  #219
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It's a two-way street. Post Isles/Oilers, some teams relied on their home-grown talent (Flames, Habs, Devils) while others traded away everybody and sold their souls (Rangers, Penguins, Stars).

What Smith never did was find a balance, and I blame it on the stupid strike season because the whole organization was aghast at finishing below .500 and getting swept in the 2nd round the year after they won the Cup, when in reality that 1995 Rangers team had an outstanding nucleus with some good chips to build around.

Smith operated under an entitle different set of circumstances. I think greed got the best of him in 1996, and it didnt help him that there was an endless amount of money at his disposal.

When you look at the 1992 team, you have to start with the draft. A surplus enabled Smith to acquire pieces and so on. I think within the next two years, Sather will deal some (and I mean a handful) of our excess prospects to acquire needed pieces for sustained success.
Yes, Smith tried to maximize the Messier glory years with the moves in 1995 and 1996, but, I maintain it all goes back to not winning the Cup in 1991-92, and missing the playoffs next year. Win the Cup in 1991-92, and Smith doesn't become desperate and deal away Weight or Amonte, and Messier doesn't throw Nielson under the bus at the post-season awards show. He also likely doesn't pursue Lindros. Of course, better drafting would have also helped things long term. Michael Stewart, the Ferraro brothers, Niklas Sundstrom when the likes of Bertuzzi, Deadmarsh and Allison were on the board in 1993, taking Lee Sorochan over Bryan McCabe, giving up a #1 for Verbeek because you had dealt Amonte and Gartner to win the Cup, drafting Jeff Brown...just awful use of the draft and assets.

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01-09-2012, 09:04 AM
  #220
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That 91-92 team was a great team.

Five 30+ goal scorers. Including a 40 goal scorer.

A Norris winner with 100+ points. Another defenseman with 70+ points.

Hart winner.

As solid a goaltending tandem you could have.

One of the toughest sobs in the league in Domi.

Sick team.

We aren't nearly as potent offensively. But we are stingy defensively and tough. With great goaltending. Different era, though. Average goaltenders are better now. By today's standards, in this era, we have a contender.

But we have to be cautious not to gut the team like we did in 94.

You don't trade the Weights and Amontes. You don't trade the Gartners. And not long after you don't trade the Zubovs, Kovalevs, and Savards.

Keep the core intact. Keep the farm system intact.

Add to it, don't subtract from it.

Its not about one-and-done. Its about sustained success.

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01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
  #221
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That 91-92 team was a great team.

Five 30+ goal scorers. Including a 40 goal scorer.

A Norris winner with 100+ points. Another defenseman with 70+ points.

Hart winner.

As solid a goaltending tandem you could have.

One of the toughest sobs in the league in Domi.

Sick team.

We aren't nearly as potent offensively. But we are stingy defensively and tough. With great goaltending. Different era, though. Average goaltenders are better now. By today's standards, in this era, we have a contender.

But we have to be cautious not to gut the team like we did in 94.

You don't trade the Weights and Amontes. You don't trade the Gartners. And not long after you don't trade the Zubovs, Kovalevs, and Savards.

Keep the core intact. Keep the farm system intact.

Add to it, don't subtract from it.

Its not about one-and-done. Its about sustained success.
Gorton has said that numerous times. It is about building an organization who can sustain success for a long time.

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01-09-2012, 09:14 AM
  #222
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When you look at the 1992 team, you have to start with the draft. A surplus enabled Smith to acquire pieces and so on. I think within the next two years, Sather will deal some (and I mean a handful) of our excess prospects to acquire needed pieces for sustained success.
I actually see keeping those prospects as the key to sustained success. Infuse the roster with young players every year. Allow them to mature and push older, more expensive players for playing time. Trade older, more expensive players for valuable future assets.

That's how you sustain success. Trading youth for more expensive, older players will reduce cap flexibility and depth. And eventually, the pipeline will dry up if we keep trading multiple young assets for fewer established assets.

I'm not saying we should never trade youth for experience, but we need to be very careful about which futures we trade, who we trade them for, and not do it too often. A steady influx of quality drafted players is the best way to maintain longterm success, bar none.

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01-09-2012, 09:20 AM
  #223
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Gorton has said that numerous times. It is about building an organization who can sustain success for a long time.
Yup.

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01-09-2012, 09:31 AM
  #224
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I actually see keeping those prospects as the key to sustained success. Infuse the roster with young players every year. Allow them to mature and push older, more expensive players for playing time. Trade older, more expensive players for valuable future assets.

That's how you sustain success. Trading youth for more expensive, older players will reduce cap flexibility and depth. And eventually, the pipeline will dry up if we keep trading multiple young assets for fewer established assets.

I'm not saying we should never trade youth for experience, but we need to be very careful about which futures we trade, who we trade them for, and not do it too often. A steady influx of quality drafted players is the best way to maintain longterm success, bar none.
The problem is that this team arguably already has too many guys and not enough slots. We've got a guy making nearly 4M on the bench as a result. It's a good problem to have...but at some point (particularly with this being a young team) you're going to have to start moving some pieces to improve the overall team. Yes, depth is nice...but cap issues aside, I'd rather have 1 second line player than 2 third liners.

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01-09-2012, 09:32 AM
  #225
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How is a team with Messier,Graves,King,Domi,Kocur and Beukeboom considered "soft"? Many of the anti-Roger people in the NY media thought the Rangers were a goon team. Uncle Roger's Maple Leafs scared the crap out of Mike Bossy in the late 70s. Some of pro-Islander media never forgot that. Paging Stan Fischler.

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