I remember in the hockey schools, being told by your coach to play defense was interpreted like a punishment and an insult (can't play with the puck) at the same time. Mostly by parents who know little about hockey and brainwashed the kids to play forward. For some reason there is no pride culture of being a defense man for the little guys. Our hockey needs another Fetisov or something..
And if you were any good with the puck, the coach would put you as forward instantly.. just the mentality..
I wouldn't say Russian D is "extremely weak", but it is certainly a concern area.
It may not be "extremely weak," but it is very close to it. Throughout the WJC, all opponents decided to use the same strategy. They would dump the puck in the Russian zone and forecheck heavily, bringing their defensemen halfway between the blueline and the goal line. They were betting that the Russian defensemen were not fast enough, not physical enough, and were not good enough skaters to get to the puck first, get the puck under control, and move it out of the Russian zone.
They came close to winning that bet. We were lucky to beat the Czechs in the quarterfinals. Even though the Czechs were not one of the best offensive teams in the WJC, they managed 45 shots on goal against the Russians, and good fortune came when the referee decided not to call a penalty on Kucherov when he set up Zheldakov to score the game winner in OT. Against Sweden in the preliminary round, very weak defense enabled Sweden to eliminate a 3-0 deficit in the third period and win it in OT, forcing us to play Canada in the semi-Final. The Russian offense built up a 6-1 lead with only 10 minutes left in the game, and the next thing you know, the defense surrendered 4 goals in about 6 minutes, and only scrambling, magnificent saves prevented OT against a suddenly highly-charged Canada team. In the Gold Medal game, Sweden kept the puck near the Russian goal for almost the entire game, and only masterful goalkeeping kept Russian hopes alive until overtime.
IMO, we had enough high-quality offense to win the Gold Medal, but since the defense could not clear the puck out of the Russian zone, the offense rarely had a chance to work its magic. The goaltending was magnificent but, IMO, the defense did not play well enough to win a Gold Medal.
I remember in the hockey schools, being told by your coach to play defense was interpreted like a punishment and an insult (can't play with the puck) at the same time. Mostly by parents who know little about hockey and brainwashed the kids to play forward. For some reason there is no pride culture of being a defense man for the little guys. Our hockey needs another Fetisov or something..
And if you were any good with the puck, the coach would put you as forward instantly.. just the mentality..
Even with the great Soviet teams, the same principles seemed to apply. The great Soviet national teams usually one had 2 or 3 really good defensemen. There were national team starters like Stelnov who could not skate very well. There was a great contrast in talent and skill between the forwards and the defense. There is no reason why the position of defenseman should be a dumping ground for second-best skaters!
Even with the great Soviet teams, the same principles seemed to apply. The great Soviet national teams usually one had 2 or 3 really good defensemen. There were national team starters like Stelnov who could not skate very well. There was a great contrast in talent and skill between the forwards and the defense. There is no reason why the position of defenseman should be a dumping ground for second-best skaters!
Yup, but that is a very deep character and trait of Russian/Soviet hockey. Who knows, maybe if we were to take that mentality away- there wouldn't be as many high-end forwards. My hope is that in the future, with the rise of NHL we'll have a deeper crop of Defenseman. All we need is 7 or 8 for WJC team, and same for the NT. There must be enough good ones out of 400-500 players.
Yup, but that is a very deep character and trait of Russian/Soviet hockey. Who knows, maybe if we were to take that mentality away- there wouldn't be as many high-end forwards. My hope is that in the future, with the rise of NHL we'll have a deeper crop of Defenseman. All we need is 7 or 8 for WJC team, and same for the NT. There must be enough good ones out of 400-500 players.
Very good points! The last thing I would want to see would be a shift in emphasis from the beautiful kind of skating, stickhandling and passing that is so characteristic of Russian hockey to a boring defensive style. I have been frustrated over the very poor showing by the defense in this year's WJC, but not enough to want to kill the golden goose that we so love. You are right, 7 to 8 defensemen out of the talent pool of hundreds is probably all that is needed to do basic things like clear the puck out of the Russian zone and away from the Russian goal. If the other team is controlling the puck inside the Russian zone, then the offense is trapped and can't get going.
Tikhonov used to have a strategy where Fetisov, for example, would take the puck behind the net, and at the same, two forwards would position themselves on the boards halfway between the blue line and the goal line. The other forward would break to open ice. This forced the forechecking team to have to play defense all over the defensive zone. It made controlling the puck and cycling around the defensive zone extremely difficult. Of course, the great talent of the players helped as well.
Yup, but that is a very deep character and trait of Russian/Soviet hockey. Who knows, maybe if we were to take that mentality away- there wouldn't be as many high-end forwards. My hope is that in the future, with the rise of NHL we'll have a deeper crop of Defenseman. All we need is 7 or 8 for WJC team, and same for the NT. There must be enough good ones out of 400-500 players.
Fulcrum,
In fairness to the defensemen, the 2011 WJC was played on the same-size North American rink in Buffalo. A huge difference in favor of the Russians was Bobkov. The Canadians led 3-0 based on their forechecking efforts. When Shikin was in goal, and the puck was dumped into his zone, he would just stand there in his crease and force the defensemen to come all the way back behind the net to chase the puck. This would give the Canadian forecheckers plenty of time to get positioned in the Russian zone.
When Bobkov came in in the second period, when forecheckers dumped the puck in, Bobkov would come out of his net and chase it, passing it to his defenders, who could easily clear the zone. This meant instead of trying to chase the puck in their own zone, the Russian forwards could take the puck into the Canadian zone and attack the net. The rest is history! IMO, Russian goalies should always be prepared to leave the net to assist the defensemen in clearing the zone.
It may not be "extremely weak," but it is very close to it. Throughout the WJC, all opponents decided to use the same strategy. They would dump the puck in the Russian zone and forecheck heavily, bringing their defensemen halfway between the blueline and the goal line. They were betting that the Russian defensemen were not fast enough, not physical enough, and were not good enough skaters to get to the puck first, get the puck under control, and move it out of the Russian zone.
They came close to winning that bet. We were lucky to beat the Czechs in the quarterfinals. Even though the Czechs were not one of the best offensive teams in the WJC, they managed 45 shots on goal against the Russians, and good fortune came when the referee decided not to call a penalty on Kucherov when he set up Zheldakov to score the game winner in OT. Against Sweden in the preliminary round, very weak defense enabled Sweden to eliminate a 3-0 deficit in the third period and win it in OT, forcing us to play Canada in the semi-Final. The Russian offense built up a 6-1 lead with only 10 minutes left in the game, and the next thing you know, the defense surrendered 4 goals in about 6 minutes, and only scrambling, magnificent saves prevented OT against a suddenly highly-charged Canada team. In the Gold Medal game, Sweden kept the puck near the Russian goal for almost the entire game, and only masterful goalkeeping kept Russian hopes alive until overtime.
IMO, we had enough high-quality offense to win the Gold Medal, but since the defense could not clear the puck out of the Russian zone, the offense rarely had a chance to work its magic. The goaltending was magnificent but, IMO, the defense did not play well enough to win a Gold Medal.
all team played well about 50 min. and then bang - bang- bang 4 goals in 6 min. and now its like only defensemans played bad in these period of the game?? Its like forwards were not involved? Defense played actually pretty well during the whole tournament. At least much better than expected.
all team played well about 50 min. and then bang - bang- bang 4 goals in 6 min. and now its like only defensemans played bad in these period of the game?? Its like forwards were not involved? Defense played actually pretty well during the whole tournament. At least much better than expected.
I agree, forwards had a lot to do with defensive lapses, as many just stooped skating as soon as they lost the puck.
It's not a penalty when high stick is on a follow-through.
You can make a case that refs should've stopped play because of injured player, but they aren't suppose to interrupt an attack.
I agree that the rules permit an inadvertent high stick when it is on a follow-through from a pass. But it is a judgment call based on the referee's interpretation of the play. We could have gotten unlucky and had the goal waved off. I don't think it is a reviewable play. That is all I was saying. The goal was clearly a good goal!
In retrospect, there were a lot of parallels between the 2012 WJC team and the 2010 team. Both very talented teams with really good players, but inexperienced and not much chemistry to hold them together. Both teams had one big star who was expected to carry a heavy share of the load (Filatov, Kuznetsov). Both teams had a terrible time stopping teams from cycling the puck in the Russian zone. The big difference was the coaching - the 2010 team got to 6th place with Plyuschev, while the 2012 team were only one shot away from the gold medal with Bragin.
Next year there will (hopefully) be more experienced players in front of a home crowd in Ufa. Already, I can't wait.
In retrospect, there were a lot of parallels between the 2012 WJC team and the 2010 team. Both very talented teams with really good players, but inexperienced and not much chemistry to hold them together. Both teams had one big star who was expected to carry a heavy share of the load (Filatov, Kuznetsov). Both teams had a terrible time stopping teams from cycling the puck in the Russian zone. The big difference was the coaching - the 2010 team got to 6th place with Plyuschev, while the 2012 team were only one shot away from the gold medal with Bragin.
Next year there will (hopefully) be more experienced players in front of a home crowd in Ufa. Already, I can't wait.
I thought exactly the same thing. I remember watching the 2010 "team" and it was just embarassing to watch, there was no TEAM at all. Plyushev still makes me cringe.
Tkachev and Shenfield are not new at all, both guys been playing for U18 and other junior teams. Both can make the WJC team next year, Tkachev is more likely imho
Tkachev and Shenfield are not new at all, both guys been playing for U18 and other junior teams. Both can make the WJC team next year, Tkachev is more likely imho
Unfortunately I find it harder to follow U18, except during the WC. So they are new to me, at least from a point of view that I've never really seen them play. I think I saw Shenfeld, but he didnt really stand out.
The offense looks weaker this year (considering Yakupov probably won't make it). But overall the team looks a bit more balanced, considering some experienced Defenders.
The offense looks weaker this year (considering Yakupov probably won't make it). But overall the team looks a bit more balanced, considering some experienced Defenders.
And then there is the ? with the coach.
Antipin is 92) Grigorenko/Yakupov will possibly be in the NHL
Strong connection with Bilyletdinov (and apparently recommended by him). Thoughts?
I think it's an overall good move, most importantly he's not one of the FHR guy and the team will not be corrupt. That way Russia always has a good chance at medals.
I hope he maintains similar values: Best players, balanced team, strong characters
Antipin is 92) Grigorenko/Yakupov will possibly be in the NHL
My prediction is that Yakupov will be in the NHL, but Grigorenko won't. Grigorenko has great talent, but I think he will be judged to need more maturity. He is a finesse player, and doesn't really attack the net, like Yakupov does. That is a limiting factor in the NHL.
Strong connection with Bilyletdinov (and apparently recommended by him). Thoughts?
I think it's an overall good move, most importantly he's not one of the FHR guy and the team will not be corrupt. That way Russia always has a good chance at medals.
I hope he maintains similar values: Best players, balanced team, strong characters
I don't know much about him as a coach, but I remember him as a really slick, skilled player who really stood out in international tournaments, particularly the '79 Challenge Cup. Two things - if he is a protege of Bilyaletdinov, that speaks well for him, because Coach Bill did a masterful job at the WHC this year. The other thing is that he is well versed in the training and tactics of Tikhonov in that era of the late '70s and 80s, when the Soviets were so dominant. Recalling his demeanor, I think he will be similar to Coach Bill and Bragin, and a contrast with Plyuschev.
I don't know much about him as a coach, but I remember him as a really slick, skilled player who really stood out in international tournaments, particularly the '79 Challenge Cup. Two things - if he is a protege of Bilyaletdinov, that speaks well for him, because Coach Bill did a masterful job at the WHC this year. The other thing is that he is well versed in the training and tactics of Tikhonov in that era of the late '70s and 80s, when the Soviets were so dominant. Recalling his demeanor, I think he will be similar to Coach Bill and Bragin, and a contrast with Plyuschev.
Well hopefully that will help.
I wasn't too high on Bragin when he came, but I was very wrong. Hopefully we're right this time and our optimism is matched.
I just hope that he will preach combination hockey(esp. on big ice), instead of individual skill (like we saw with the U18 coach). It's a trademark, and if Russia stops playing combination hockey, it's all downhill. I also hope he thoroughly takes in as much information as he can about the talent pool from Bragin. Since Bragin knows the youths very well.
I wasn't too high on Bragin when he came, but I was very wrong. Hopefully we're right this time and our optimism is matched.
I just hope that he will preach combination hockey(esp. on big ice), instead of individual skill (like we saw with the U18 coach). It's a trademark, and if Russia stops playing combination hockey, it's all downhill. I also hope he thoroughly takes in as much information as he can about the talent pool from Bragin. Since Bragin knows the youths very well.
I share your hopes. Clearly, a combinational passing game on the big ice is where Russian teams that excel rely on, and that style is definitely the key to success. There is a lot of Russian talent for this year's WJC, so I am optimistic that the ingredients of success are there.
Goalies
Ustinskiy Igor
Andrei Vasilevski
Denis Perevozshikov
Defense
Jaroslav Dyblenko
Michael Naumenkov
Nikita Nesterov
Damir Galin
Alex Vasilevsky
Yarullin Albert
Alex Shestopalov
Kirill Diakov
Maxim Osipov
Yegor Malenkikh
Forwards
Yaroslav Kosov
Nikolai Prohorkin
Anton Shenfeld
Vladimir Tkachev
Alexander Khokhlachev
Anton Slepyshev
Maxim Shalunov
Danil Faizullin
Sergei Tverdokhlebov
Andrey Sigarev
Danil Romantsev
Kiril Kapustin
Bulat Hammatov
Bogdan Yakimov
Alexei Filippov
Arseniy Hatsey
I'm surprised not to see Shemelyov there. I thought he played OK and was creative at times for the little time he was given.
Also, the size of defense is impressive (Malenkikh, Shestopalov...), now just have to teach them how to defend really well
