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Old
01-06-2012, 09:43 AM
  #1
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Thoughts?

David Poile was asked point blank this morning in Nashville what the hold up was in a contract with Suter. Poile direct answer was Suter signing on the dotted line. Leads me to believe that the contract is out there for Suter and the puck is now on his stick.

He went onto say that Suter has made it clear to him that him and his family like it in Nashville but he wants to play for a contender. It is the belief that Suter is waiting to see if Nashville makes a big move to improve the team before he makes his decision.
What is the opinion out there. Do you think Poile will make something happen or come up short and Suter ends up traded at the deadline? What move could keep Suter and Weber here? What could we get for Suter if it came to that?

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01-06-2012, 10:01 AM
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David Poile was asked point blank this morning in Nashville what the hold up was in a contract with Suter. Poile direct answer was Suter signing on the dotted line. Leads me to believe that the contract is out there for Suter and the puck is now on his stick.

He went onto say that Suter has made it clear to him that him and his family like it in Nashville but he wants to play for a contender. It is the belief that Suter is waiting to see if Nashville makes a big move to improve the team before he makes his decision.
What is the opinion out there. Do you think Poile will make something happen or come up short and Suter ends up traded at the deadline? What move could keep Suter and Weber here? What could we get for Suter if it came to that?
I think Suter is waiting for the Preds to make some improvement to their sorry set of forwards and find some bodies who can occasionally put the puck in the net. The problem is, unless Poile can come up with some magic and steal someone (and there are no steals out there), he will have to trade away Suter or Weber in order to get a top forward, defeating the purpose of the trade. I think all Poile has in his back pocket if he wants to improve the offense AND sign both Suter and Weber, is to trade away some of his high profile prospects (Ellis, Blum) and then hope Suter still signs. I don't think Suter will sign unless he makes the first move.

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01-06-2012, 10:10 AM
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we have a bunch of great support players up front with no true topline anchors.

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01-06-2012, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Prederator View Post
I think Suter is waiting for the Preds to make some improvement to their sorry set of forwards and find some bodies who can occasionally put the puck in the net. The problem is, unless Poile can come up with some magic and steal someone (and there are no steals out there), he will have to trade away Suter or Weber in order to get a top forward, defeating the purpose of the trade. I think all Poile has in his back pocket if he wants to improve the offense AND sign both Suter and Weber, is to trade away some of his high profile prospects (Ellis, Blum) and then hope Suter still signs. I don't think Suter will sign unless he makes the first move.
Don't forget about Linback. I think one will be gone. I have thought from the get that they would not be able to get all three (Suter/Weber/Rinne). The Preds will still have a top ranked D with Rinne and Suter or Weber.

This may be crazy but they have mentioned several times about Ellis size. He seems to skate well and has offense ability. Would training him to a foward position be completely nuts?

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01-06-2012, 10:18 AM
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It does seem that both Suter and Weber are doing the same thing. Where everyone thought it was just Weber but it is both wanting to stay here but wanting to know what Poile is going to do about bringing in some big time offense to help them out before they commit to staying.

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01-06-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Prederator View Post
I think Suter is waiting for the Preds to make some improvement to their sorry set of forwards and find some bodies who can occasionally put the puck in the net. The problem is, unless Poile can come up with some magic and steal someone (and there are no steals out there), he will have to trade away Suter or Weber in order to get a top forward, defeating the purpose of the trade. I think all Poile has in his back pocket if he wants to improve the offense AND sign both Suter and Weber, is to trade away some of his high profile prospects (Ellis, Blum) and then hope Suter still signs. I don't think Suter will sign unless he makes the first move.
Well if this is true (and I believe it is), we are probably going to be very disappointed when the dust settles on Weber and Suter. Poile just isn't the type to make the big trade. I can't see him giving away the prospects and picks necessary to land a top line guy, just so Suter and Weber will stay. Poile will say there just wasn't the right guy for the right price available.

If he gambles and the big signee doesn't carry the offense (a la Kovalchuk), we still have Weber, Suter, and Rinne locked up. And we keep the status quo by scratching our way into the playoffs with defense and scrappy 3rd and 4th liners.

I hope Poile has another Forsberg type trade in him. Otherwise Weber or Suter, or both are as good as gone.

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01-06-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Well if this is true (and I believe it is), we are probably going to be very disappointed when the dust settles on Weber and Suter. Poile just isn't the type to make the big trade. I can't see him giving away the prospects and picks necessary to land a top line guy, just so Suter and Weber will stay. Poile will say there just wasn't the right guy for the right price available.

If he gambles and the big signee doesn't carry the offense (a la Kovalchuk), we still have Weber, Suter, and Rinne locked up. And we keep the status quo by scratching our way into the playoffs with defense and scrappy 3rd and 4th liners.

I hope Poile has another Forsberg type trade in him. Otherwise Weber or Suter, or both are as good as gone.
Agree.

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01-06-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Well if this is true (and I believe it is), we are probably going to be very disappointed when the dust settles on Weber and Suter. Poile just isn't the type to make the big trade. I can't see him giving away the prospects and picks necessary to land a top line guy, just so Suter and Weber will stay. Poile will say there just wasn't the right guy for the right price available.

If he gambles and the big signee doesn't carry the offense (a la Kovalchuk), we still have Weber, Suter, and Rinne locked up. And we keep the status quo by scratching our way into the playoffs with defense and scrappy 3rd and 4th liners.

I hope Poile has another Forsberg type trade in him. Otherwise Weber or Suter, or both are as good as gone.
I think Poile sees that we finally have some stars here in Nashville and that they are in their prime. The time for the Predators is the next 2-5 years. I think and i have a lot of people who agree that the only thing this team is missing is A. A big body get and stay infront of the net (without getting pushed down onto the ice) 1-2 line player
B. A big time forward who can put the puck in the net when he gets a chance not shoot miss left/right/up. The almost is getting old IMO.

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01-06-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Well if this is true (and I believe it is), we are probably going to be very disappointed when the dust settles on Weber and Suter. Poile just isn't the type to make the big trade. I can't see him giving away the prospects and picks necessary to land a top line guy, just so Suter and Weber will stay. Poile will say there just wasn't the right guy for the right price available.

If he gambles and the big signee doesn't carry the offense (a la Kovalchuk), we still have Weber, Suter, and Rinne locked up. And we keep the status quo by scratching our way into the playoffs with defense and scrappy 3rd and 4th liners.

I hope Poile has another Forsberg type trade in him. Otherwise Weber or Suter, or both are as good as gone.
the owners like that we have sellouts and stars and trades for improvements mean sellouts and then Poile like sellouts too..they are not gone...

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01-06-2012, 11:41 AM
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It's a catch 22. The guys want big contracts plus some mystery player to come in. The cap room exists to pay the big three a combined $22-23mil, but that doesn't leave room for a name forward. The pieces are here for good performance up front ... they just don't all fire at the same time. The Fisher line goes cold but the Spaling line performs. The Fisher line does well for a game but nothing from the Legwand line. Frustrating.

But if all that is left is for Suter to sign, it's in his court. If a reasonable offer was made, it's up to him to take it or leave it. The sooner he does that, the sooner Poile can figure out what he has to work with and what holes he needs to fill for next season and beyond.

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01-06-2012, 11:44 AM
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the owners like that we have sellouts and stars and trades for improvements mean sellouts and then Poile like sellouts too..they are not gone...
How many sellouts have we had this year, I know 7 in a row. We really need to find a way to generate more $

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01-06-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's a catch 22. The guys want big contracts plus some mystery player to come in. The cap room exists to pay the big three a combined $22-23mil, but that doesn't leave room for a name forward. The pieces are here for good performance up front ... they just don't all fire at the same time. The Fisher line goes cold but the Spaling line performs. The Fisher line does well for a game but nothing from the Legwand line. Frustrating.

But if all that is left is for Suter to sign, it's in his court. If a reasonable offer was made, it's up to him to take it or leave it. The sooner he does that, the sooner Poile can figure out what he has to work with and what holes he needs to fill for next season and beyond.
It depends on what that big piece is and how expensive it is. It also depends on who is traded and how much their cap hit happens to be. The team has the space to work with as long as the forward coming in doesn't cost north of $6m (cap hit). Of course, bringing in that guy means the need for a stay-at-home defenseman with size and grit will likely go ignored. In fact, a more expensive piece can be brought in this season if Poile is confident in his ability to get rid of salary over the summer.

I hate the idea of a player only signing if a big move is made. These guys have to understand better than us that big deals can't simply be made because a GM wants it to be made. Not without selling the entire farm to get it done, which would be counterproductive.

I understand Suter and Weber both wanting to play for a contender, but there are very few perennial contenders right now. The few that do exist are pressing against the cap as it is, so they will need to jettison salary in order to take more on. What does that do to their status of "contender"? In a salary cap era it's just too hard to maintain a contending team year-in and year-out. Contracts have to be lengthened to reduce overall cap hit. Big name players will almost always seek some sort of NTC/NMC. Those players never stop aging, with the exception of maybe Nic Lidstrom. As they age they become less effective, and since the teams have had such low draft positions their prospect pools are likely to be weaker than a "non-contending" team. I don't know... something tells me Suter is eyeing that spot opening up in Detroit. I hope not, but I think that's what is going on.


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01-06-2012, 12:23 PM
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It depends on what that big piece is and how expensive it is. It also depends on who is traded and how much their cap hit happens to be. The team has the space to work with as long as the forward coming in doesn't cost north of $6m (cap hit). Of course, bringing in that guy means the need for a stay-at-home defenseman with size and grit will likely go ignored. In fact, a more expensive piece can be brought in this season if Poile is confident in his ability to get rid of salary over the summer.

I hate the idea of a player only signing if a big move is made. These guys have to understand better than us that big deals can't simply be made because a GM wants it to be made. Not without selling the entire farm to get it done, which would be counterproductive.

I understand Suter and Weber both wanting to play for a contender, but there are very few perennial contenders right now. The few that do exist are pressing against the cap as it is, so they will need to jettison salary in order to take more on. What does that do to their status of "contender"? In a salary cap era it's just too hard to maintain a contending team year-in and year-out. Contracts have to be lengthened to reduce overall cap hit. Big name players will almost always seek some sort of NTC/NMC. Those players never stop aging, with the exception of maybe Nic Lidstrom. As they age they become less effective, and since their have had such low draft positions their prospect pool is likely to be weaker than a "non-contending" team. I don't know... something tells me Suter is eyeing that spot opening up in Detroit. I hope not, but I think that's what is going on.
Unfortunately, that's what I keep coming back to. DET should have a lot of $ to work with very soon, and, inexplicably, there seems to be no end to their "contender-ness"

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01-06-2012, 12:26 PM
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It depends on what that big piece is and how expensive it is. It also depends on who is traded and how much their cap hit happens to be. The team has the space to work with as long as the forward coming in doesn't cost north of $6m (cap hit). Of course, bringing in that guy means the need for a stay-at-home defenseman with size and grit will likely go ignored. In fact, a more expensive piece can be brought in this season if Poile is confident in his ability to get rid of salary over the summer.

I hate the idea of a player only signing if a big move is made. These guys have to understand better than us that big deals can't simply be made because a GM wants it to be made. Not without selling the entire farm to get it done, which would be counterproductive.

I understand Suter and Weber both wanting to play for a contender, but there are very few perennial contenders right now. The few that do exist are pressing against the cap as it is, so they will need to jettison salary in order to take more on. What does that do to their status of "contender"? In a salary cap era it's just too hard to maintain a contending team year-in and year-out. Contracts have to be lengthened to reduce overall cap hit. Big name players will almost always seek some sort of NTC/NMC. Those players never stop aging, with the exception of maybe Nic Lidstrom. As they age they become less effective, and since their have had such low draft positions their prospect pool is likely to be weaker than a "non-contending" team. I don't know... something tells me Suter is eyeing that spot opening up in Detroit. I hope not, but I think that's what is going on.
Poile missed the boat this year in not finding a top forward (see Brad Richards) and trying to low-ball Weber. I don't think these guys will sign in anticipation of them signing a top forward some time in the next year or two. I think Poile needs to make a move now before these guys are willing to commit.

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01-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
It's a catch 22. The guys want big contracts plus some mystery player to come in. The cap room exists to pay the big three a combined $22-23mil, but that doesn't leave room for a name forward. The pieces are here for good performance up front ... they just don't all fire at the same time. The Fisher line goes cold but the Spaling line performs. The Fisher line does well for a game but nothing from the Legwand line. Frustrating.

But if all that is left is for Suter to sign, it's in his court. If a reasonable offer was made, it's up to him to take it or leave it. The sooner he does that, the sooner Poile can figure out what he has to work with and what holes he needs to fill for next season and beyond.
i agree..........and the big problem is they want to be paid the big bucks and have a highly paid forward come in.

i went and looked at cap geek and looked briefly at the salaries of vancouver and chicago...2 teams with a ton of talent... there is no one signed on those teams over
6.3 million...... players took a little less, as i remember, to stay on those teams and compete.

if suter and weber think they can both get 8 million ( i am making these figures up, as a guessing point as to what someone with crazy $ might pay) and we can get a 5 million dollar forward....
i just don't think it's smart.

we can't prove it to them... get a damn good trade for them and we'll have to move on.

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01-06-2012, 12:36 PM
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Poile missed the boat this year in not finding a top forward (see Brad Richards) and trying to low-ball Weber. I don't think these guys will sign in anticipation of them signing a top forward some time in the next year or two. I think Poile needs to make a move now before these guys are willing to commit.
low ball weber.........it is such common knowledge that there was a 7 year 7 million dollar offer on the table that weber and his agent turned down...that is not a low ball offfer.

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01-06-2012, 12:38 PM
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Richards was NY bound before his NTC even expired. He even refused to waive the clause so that NY would not trade assets in order to obtain his rights. He didn't want to weaken the team even a little. There was no way that guy was coming over. Unless you meant Mike Richards, and then we have been over this ad nauseam. Nashville doesn't beat out LA in that deal without giving up Wilson+. We just don't have the pieces that LA had because we didn't have the years of terrible play that brought the high draft picks LA had. Even with giving up Wilson (who replaces Brayden Schenn in the LA deal), who do we give up to replace Simmonds, a 30 point scorer the season before he was traded?

At the end of the day there are only so many 30+ goal scoring forwards and only so many 60-70+ point producing forwards to go around. Even then, you pretty much have to find a team with more than just one or two if you want to make a deal. After that, you have to hope like hell they don't have a NTC/NMC or that they are willing to waive it. Then, you have to beat out all of the other teams who are interested in what is actually a rarity in the league. It's not impossible, so I'm not making excuses. It's unfair to say that Poile couldn't have gotten one at all, so I'm not saying that. It's just as unfair to think Poile can simply make a move at will. He did miss out on getting a top line forward, but by how much none of us know.

And he didn't lowball Weber. Reports came out that he offered Weber as much as $6.5 (or maybe it was $7m... I don't remember any more) over a long term deal, but Weber wanted a short term deal to see what, if any, moves will be made. The arbitration number everyone keeps tossing out (4.8m I believe) is a negotiation starting point for the hearing, NOT an actual offer. Another point that has been beaten to death and back since the temperatures were still in the high 90s.

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01-06-2012, 12:40 PM
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I think Poile sees that we finally have some stars here in Nashville and that they are in their prime. The time for the Predators is the next 2-5 years. I think and i have a lot of people who agree that the only thing this team is missing is A. A big body get and stay infront of the net (without getting pushed down onto the ice) 1-2 line player
B. A big time forward who can put the puck in the net when he gets a chance not shoot miss left/right/up. The almost is getting old IMO.
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Poile missed the boat this year in not finding a top forward (see Brad Richards) and trying to low-ball Weber. I don't think these guys will sign in anticipation of them signing a top forward some time in the next year or two. I think Poile needs to make a move now before these guys are willing to commit.
Yep missed it big time with only getting berg who is now in AHL because no one else wanted him. I agree with Webs/Suts in wanting the Preds to move. This team imo needs to be balanced not just good defense and hope we can score a lucky goal or two. The fans have shown up big time the past couple of years and imo now it is time for the guys who say they are in it for a cup to show up and get it done on their end.

With all of that said who would you guys want on the team? No one ever got into the bottom couple of ?'s

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01-06-2012, 12:43 PM
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How many sellouts have we had this year, I know 7 in a row. We really need to find a way to generate more $
The lease caps ticket prices at league average so we can't use the most obvious route for generating revenue once people are buying. The non-hockey use helps the bottom line, but, it's still only a few million per year which sounds like a lot until you start looking at gate revenue vs salary for the team.

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It depends on what that big piece is and how expensive it is. It also depends on who is traded and how much their cap hit happens to be. The team has the space to work with as long as the forward coming in doesn't cost north of $6m (cap hit). Of course, bringing in that guy means the need for a stay-at-home defenseman with size and grit will likely go ignored. In fact, a more expensive piece can be brought in this season if Poile is confident in his ability to get rid of salary over the summer.

I hate the idea of a player only signing if a big move is made. These guys have to understand better than us that big deals can't simply be made because a GM wants it to be made. Not without selling the entire farm to get it done, which would be counterproductive.

I understand Suter and Weber both wanting to play for a contender, but there are very few perennial contenders right now. The few that do exist are pressing against the cap as it is, so they will need to jettison salary in order to take more on. What does that do to their status of "contender"? In a salary cap era it's just too hard to maintain a contending team year-in and year-out. Contracts have to be lengthened to reduce overall cap hit. Big name players will almost always seek some sort of NTC/NMC. Those players never stop aging, with the exception of maybe Nic Lidstrom. As they age they become less effective, and since the teams have had such low draft positions their prospect pools are likely to be weaker than a "non-contending" team. I don't know... something tells me Suter is eyeing that spot opening up in Detroit. I hope not, but I think that's what is going on.
The only way to bring in a $6mil player and not lose revenue sharing money (essentially making him a $8-10mil player) is to ship out Erat, Legwand, Fisher or let one of the top pair d-men walk. Or we ship both Hornqvist and SK out.

It's tough to fit their salary demands and roster demands into the budget.

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01-06-2012, 12:44 PM
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This isn't about the money they are going to get their money. They want to stay here but if Poile can't put a contender on the ice then they'll leave. If he can they stay. Of all the years this franchise has assets to trade be it pick/prospects and players all on the table. The question is does other team value our prospects as much as we do and if Poile will pull trigger and for whom and for what.

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01-06-2012, 12:45 PM
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The lease caps ticket prices at league average so we can't use the most obvious route for generating revenue once people are buying. The non-hockey use helps the bottom line, but, it's still only a few million per year which sounds like a lot until you start looking at gate revenue vs salary for the team.



The only way to bring in a $6mil player and not lose revenue sharing money (essentially making him a $8-10mil player) is to ship out Erat, Legwand, Fisher or let one of the top pair d-men walk. Or we ship both Hornqvist and SK out.

It's tough to fit their salary demands and roster demands into the budget.
How much is the budget? Do you have inside information or just speculating?

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01-06-2012, 12:46 PM
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Richards was NY bound before his NTC even expired. He even refused to waive the clause so that NY would not trade assets in order to obtain his rights. He didn't want to weaken the team even a little. There was no way that guy was coming over. Unless you meant Mike Richards, and then we have been over this ad nauseam. Nashville doesn't beat out LA in that deal without giving up Wilson+. We just don't have the pieces that LA had because we didn't have the years of terrible play that brought the high draft picks LA had. Even with giving up Wilson (who replaces Brayden Schenn in the LA deal), who do we give up to replace Simmonds, a 30 point scorer the season before he was traded?

At the end of the day there are only so many 30+ goal scoring forwards and only so many 60-70+ point producing forwards to go around. Even then, you pretty much have to find a team with more than just one or two if you want to make a deal. After that, you have to hope like hell they don't have a NTC/NMC or that they are willing to waive it. Then, you have to beat out all of the other teams who are interested in what is actually a rarity in the league. It's not impossible, so don't accuse me of making excuses. It's unfair to say that Poile couldn't have gotten one at all, so I'm not saying that. It's just as unfair to think Poile can simply make a move at will. He did miss out on getting a top line forward, but by how much none of us know.

And he didn't lowball Weber. Reports came out that he offered Weber as much as $6.5 (or maybe it was $7m... I don't remember any more) over a long term deal, but Weber wanted a short term deal to see what, if any, moves will be made. The arbitration number everyone keeps tossing out (4.8m I believe) is a negotiation starting point for the hearing, NOT an actual offer. Another point that has been beaten to death and back since the temperatures were still in the high 90s.
I heard repeatedly the $4.8 M number, which I considered low ball. If the offer was something near Rinne's 7 X $7M, then the Preds have bigger problems and will almost certainly lose Suter and Weber. And this would also prove my point. Without a major move to get some offense, I think these guys will be gone. I used Brad Richards as an example, but considering Nashville isn't even considered among the top forwards as a preferred NHL destination is also very bothersome.

Don't get me wrong, I hope we can keep both Sutes and Webs, but it is a daunting task.

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01-06-2012, 12:46 PM
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Yep missed it big time with only getting berg who is now in AHL because no one else wanted him. I agree with Webs/Suts in wanting the Preds to move. This team imo needs to be balanced not just good defense and hope we can score a lucky goal or two. The fans have shown up big time the past couple of years and imo now it is time for the guys who say they are in it for a cup to show up and get it done on their end.

With all of that said who would you guys want on the team? No one ever got into the bottom couple of ?'s
Right now the offense is outplaying the defense (statistically speaking). Both are inconsistent, so actually it's more accurate to say that this team IS balanced, not just good defensively. They are either good on both sides of the pucks, good on one side or the other, or bad all the way around. It just depends on the night. And I believe Bergfors is back in Europe. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember him clearing waivers and shipping back out.

I wouldn't mind going after a guy like Semin if we don't have to give up too much from the roster. I don't think it happens unless Washington starts slipping again. Trouble with that is Semin would only be a guaranteed to be a rental if we were able to land him since his contract expires at the end of this season. If Columbus would be interested in moving Carter that would be a deal I'd like to see, but I don't think they deal him to a division rival without bending us over. Anaheim has some pieces that would be nice to have here. Ryan would excellent. I hate Perry, but if he played for us I guess I could ignore his crap. Getzlaf is too heartless in my opinion. All of Edmonton's pieces are too young and will likely be hard to get without giving up too much to make it a wash.

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01-06-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoarding Assets View Post
How many sellouts have we had this year, I know 7 in a row. We really need to find a way to generate more $
don't even think about sellouts and additional revenue from ticket sales.... i believe they sold over 1,000 tickets @ $5 to businesse in bulk on Tuesday for the game yesterday so we could have a sell out.

business sponsorship seems like the best way to increase the revenue...but darn, i hate the dunkin donut shutout ad...it seems cursed.

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01-06-2012, 12:50 PM
  #25
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How much is the budget? Do you have inside information or just speculating?
Capgeek.com will answer all your budget questions.

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