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NHLPA rejects league approved four-conference re-alignment

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Old
01-06-2012, 08:15 PM
  #26
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorton724 View Post
And now the NHL will tell the PA they are not going to play in Sochi, this is going to hurt the players a lot more than they think it will.

The NHL should just go ahead with the realignment anyway the PA cannot stop it the NHL allowed them to give their opinion but they do not have to listen to the PA
After the BoG meeting in December, GB's position was that the League did not need the NHLPA's consent - only notification.

Realignment, the Schedule, and Playoff seeding/format are included in the NHL By-Laws and included in the CBA under the League Rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 30.3
30.3 Amendments. The NHL and its Clubs shall not, during the term of this
Agreement or any extension thereof, amend or modify the provisions (or portions
thereof) of the League Rules or any of the League's Playing Rules in existence on the
date of this Agreement which affect terms or conditions of employment of any Player,
without the prior written consent of the NHLPA which shall not be unreasonably
withheld. The NHL shall furnish any proposed amendment to the League Rules to the
NHLPA on a rolling basis regardless of whether such proposed amendment may impact
terms and conditions of employment.
NHLPA consent would only be needed if the changes directly affect the "terms or conditions of employment of any Player" - which is arguable - and even then the NHLPA would need a supportable reason to reject the change ("which shall not be unreasonably withheld").

If the League wanted to push the issue they could either:

1. go ahead with the change and let the NHLPA file a grievance, or
2. file a grievance themselves over the NHLPA's unreasonable witholding of consent.

and let the Independent Arbitrator resolve the issue.

But I agree, this has little to do with realignment, but is pure posturing going into the CBA negotiations.

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01-06-2012, 08:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Scottrocks58 View Post
Absolutely. FWIW, I've spoken with Coyotes players over the years at benefits and hospital visits and such and to a man they want more say in the game. They've felt that too many things over the years have been imposed upon them.
There is like a 2% chance that this is the case. The NHLPA isn't run by idiots, and the business case for the new re-alignment is very, very sound, and hence, it will make the NHL (and as a result, the players) more money than the current one.

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01-06-2012, 08:17 PM
  #28
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Probably won't mean much, but I'm happy they voted against this sham of a realignment.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 01-06-2012 at 08:38 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
01-06-2012, 08:18 PM
  #29
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Pick your battles Fehr, pick your battles. This isn't worth it. There are bigger fish to fry.

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01-06-2012, 08:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
That's Winnipeg's problem not the NHLPA's. Maybe they should of thought of the ramifications of getting a team from Atlanta. If a missed season of hockey gets a better CBA for the players then so be it.
you do understand how hard it is for people to take this pro-labor pov when we're talking about a group of people who make more per year than most of the industrialists the labor movement typically vilifies, yes? I mean, I get that you're a gag poster and your schtick is you love the rights of the worker more than the game of hockey, but there is absolutely no reason for anyone to sympathize with the exploited hockey player who now has to fly an extra hour to earn their $550,000 per year (minimum).

We all know another strike/lockout is coming now. Fehr is clearly a graduate of the Margaret Thatcher school of negotiation politics ("no, no, no,").


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01-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #31
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We all knew a lockout was coming the minute Fehr was hired.

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01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Chileiceman View Post
What reason could the players possibly have for not wanting realignment, besides using it as a bargaining chip?
It does mean more travel for most teams in the League.

Who knows, the specifics of this realignment, with respect to more or less creating 4 Conferences, might also effect or more specifically limit player trade options.

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01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
After the BoG meeting in December, GB's position was that the League did not need the NHLPA's consent - only notification.

Realignment, the Schedule, and Playoff seeding/format are included in the NHL By-Laws and included in the CBA under the League Rules.



NHLPA consent would only be needed if the changes directly affect the "terms or conditions of employment of any Player" - which is arguable - and even then the NHLPA would need a supportable reason to reject the change ("which shall not be unreasonably withheld").

If the League wanted to push the issue they could either:

1. go ahead with the change and let the NHLPA file a grievance, or
2. file a grievance themselves over the NHLPA's unreasonable witholding of consent.

and let the Independent Arbitrator resolve the issue.

But I agree, this has little to do with realignment, but is pure posturing going into the CBA negotiations.
Now this is super super interesting.

Here's an idea. The Players know that the NHL wants this. But they can't stop it. So they are filing a grievance. The NHL seems to have caved on this issue right away. It is clearly in EVERYONE's benefit to realign. Could the NHL be caving simply to just be showing to the PA that they can live with the current alignment, hence eliminating as a bargaining chip in the next CBA? Eventually, even the Players, must recognize that realignment has to happen, so it will sooner or later.

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01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #34
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I am really curious about how this played out. The NHL may have out manoeuvred the players here. The players don't have a particularly strong bargaining position this time around.

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01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #35
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While I don't necessarily agree with Fehr Time, does anyone know if the NHLPA were consulted in the realignment talks, or did the owners just have a committee of themselves?

My way of thinking, you should involve the players in any changes that affect them.

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01-06-2012, 08:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
you do understand how hard it is for people to take this pro-labor pov when we're talking about a group of people who make more per year than most of the industrialists the labor movement typically vilifies, yes?

I mean, I get that you're a gag poster and your schtick is you love the rights of the worker more than the game of hockey, but there is absolutely no reason for anyone to sympathize with the exploited hockey player who now has to fly an extra hour to earn their $550,000 per year (minimum)
I think people are missing the point though. Just because players earn more than many folks (including myself) it does not mean they can be taken advantage of. The have rights too and deserve respect. Why is it that people are sympathizing with billionaire owners who spread mis-truths on a regular basis btw?

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01-06-2012, 08:23 PM
  #37
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This may be more 2014 Olympics ammo than the CBA itself.

Also I recall hearing concerns from a player...not sure of the source now. It was the 7 vs 8 teams in different conferences and how that effects making the playoffs. Some players get a better chance to do so.

Also, I hate the NE conference with TB and FLA stuck in it. I dont trust those clubs to be competitive as the rest of their conference based on past history.

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01-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #38
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Seems like CBA hardball, but this will just blow up in the NHLPA's faces. Most people were either in support of the realignment or okay enough with it, and the act of rejecting the realignment plan is going to obviously come across as the NHLPA as being unreasonable, which in turn will make the BoG's attempts to get more out of the players money-wise seem reasonable by comparison.

Unless we're all missing something here, seems like the PA really just shot themselves in the foot here.

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01-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
wow, just, wow

where else could we have gotten a team

:r ant:
NYI?

Phoenix?

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01-06-2012, 08:25 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
This may be more 2014 Olympics ammo than the CBA itself.

Also I recall hearing concerns from a player...not sure of the source now. It was the 7 vs 8 teams in different conferences and how that effects making the playoffs. Some players get a better chance to do so.

Also, I hate the NE conference with TB and FLA stuck in it. I dont trust those clubs to be competitive as the rest of their conference based on past history.
Those would be ownership concerns. The players don't get paid for the playoffs. The owners do.

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01-06-2012, 08:25 PM
  #41
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Get ready for the lockout.

3 lockouts in 15 years?

Maybe Crosby should get out now before the whole house of cards comes down...

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01-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #42
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Unions in general seem to often overstep. The employees don't run the business. They are important and deserve to be a part of what is going on, but it's not their business. If everyone wasn't so obsessed with mindless growth, we wouldn't be in this position.

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01-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
I think people are missing the point though. Just because players earn more than many folks (including myself) it does not mean they can be taken advantage of. The have rights too and deserve respect. Why is it that people are sympathizing with billionaire owners who spread mis-truths on a regular basis btw?
There are degrees of "exploitation" and having your income capped at $9 million barely qualifies. The problem with unions like the NHLPA is that they want to wrap themselves up in Upton Sinclair prose when we all know they have much, much, much more in common with the owners than they do with, say, workers in a garment factory. Nobody is siding with the owners, we just see it as a battle between multi-millionaires and multi-billionaires over the most petty of things (TWO MORE HOURS ON A PRIVATE JET?! OVERTHROW THE BOURGEOISIE!) that ends up costing the 99% for the benefit of the 1%

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01-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
NYI?

Phoenix?
1 not going anywhere (until 2015)

2 we tried, have fun breaking down a brick wall with your face

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01-06-2012, 08:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Egil View Post
There is like a 2% chance that this is the case. The NHLPA isn't run by idiots, and the business case for the new re-alignment is very, very sound, and hence, it will make the NHL (and as a result, the players) more money than the current one.
Really? IIRC, the NHLPA just said no to this re-allignment. Go and chat with some players and see what they'd like to improve off the ice in their professional life. They want some say. I didn't post that they hate a re-alliignment, just that they want more input in the decisions which affect them.

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01-06-2012, 08:31 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Seems like CBA hardball, but this will just blow up in the NHLPA's faces. Most people were either in support of the realignment or okay enough with it, and the act of rejecting the realignment plan is going to obviously come across as the NHLPA as being unreasonable, which in turn will make the BoG's attempts to get more out of the players money-wise seem reasonable by comparison.

Unless we're all missing something here, seems like the PA really just shot themselves in the foot here.
Most people were not. It was about There was major pushback just not from the players until now that we knew about.

Besides for Carolina, Tampa and Florida to agree to that was so stupid.

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01-06-2012, 08:31 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
There are degrees of "exploitation" and having your income capped at $9 million barely qualifies. The problem with unions like the NHLPA is that they want to wrap themselves up in Upton Sinclair prose when we all know they have much, much, much more in common with the owners than they do with, say, workers in a garment factory. Nobody is siding with the owners, we just see it as a battle between multi-millionaires and multi-billionaires over the most petty of things (TWO MORE HOURS ON A PRIVATE JET?! OVERTHROW THE BOURGEOISIE!) that ends up costing the 99% for the benefit of the 1%
If people are so against sports unions then they should support their abolishment right? No more CBA as we know it either. No cap, draft, total free agency...hmmm, maybe it would not be so bad...

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01-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
1 not going anywhere (until 2015)

2 we tried, have fun breaking down a brick wall with your face
Fair. I concede.

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01-06-2012, 08:35 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
While I don't necessarily agree with Fehr Time, does anyone know if the NHLPA were consulted in the realignment talks, or did the owners just have a committee of themselves?

My way of thinking, you should involve the players in any changes that affect them.
I'm almost certain that they were not consulted. And you make a good point. A realignment as radical as the League has planned certainly does effect the players to some degree. And you know, that could also be the spur under the NHLPA, that they weren't invited to be involved in such a drastic realignment. Fehr could be saying to the members... 'The League can't simply ignore us in matters that effect us. We have to be part of the process.'

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01-06-2012, 08:39 PM
  #50
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I'm almost certain that they were not consulted. And you make a good point. A realignment as radical as the League has planned certainly does effect the players to some degree. And you know, that could also be the spur under the NHLPA, that they weren't invited to be involved in such a drastic realignment. Fehr could be saying to the members... 'The League can't simply ignore us in matters that effect us. We have to be part of the process.'
Exactly. For all the talk the league likes to spew about a 'partnership' with the players, they rarely if ever consult them on these matters. Things are (finally) changing and the players are standing up for themselves a bit here.

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