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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NHLPA rejects league approved four-conference re-alignment

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Old
01-27-2012, 08:37 PM
  #551
barneyg
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Yes welcome to the BoH Board.

Please let us know when you have completed your reading of all Phoenix Coyote Threads. It is mandatory for all board posters. There will be a multiple choice test once you are done and and if you pass you will get your full membership package with secret decoder ring from Fugu.

(Sample question: How long is two weeks really?
a) 14 days
b) Are we talking about weeks on Earth or Pluto?
c) Who the heck knows. )
I thought you were a scientist or something? Pluto's no longer a planet.

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01-27-2012, 09:06 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I thought you were a scientist or something?
Mathematics.
Fouriers Last Theorem.
Euclidian Algorithms. MATLABS.

... dont ask me.

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01-27-2012, 09:20 PM
  #553
barneyg
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Mathematics.
Fouriers Last Theorem.
omg I never made the connection, he's like 250 years old that's sick! no wonder he's a bit lost about Pluto!

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01-27-2012, 10:21 PM
  #554
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I read the THN interview with Fehr and the questions were a load of crap. The one that really irked me was the one where the interviewer was telling fehr that unprofitable teams effect the revenue used in the calculation of the cap amount and therefore teams that lose money cost the players revenues and salary cap..

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01-28-2012, 12:47 PM
  #555
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I read the THN interview with Fehr and the questions were a load of crap. The one that really irked me was the one where the interviewer was telling fehr that unprofitable teams effect the revenue used in the calculation of the cap amount and therefore teams that lose money cost the players revenues and salary cap..
I was under the impression that they do..

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01-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #556
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4 teams are in trouble. But the owners want more money?

Fehr will win this.

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01-28-2012, 01:39 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I thought you were a scientist or something? Pluto's no longer a planet.
Still orbits the sun though!


Last edited by Fourier: 01-28-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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01-28-2012, 01:57 PM
  #558
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Still orbits the earth though!
As a charter member of the Order of the Dolphin & practitioner of the Drake
Equation subscribing to the Fermi Paradox you would know that all too well.

N=R* fp ne fe fi fe L

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01-28-2012, 02:07 PM
  #559
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I seriously fear what Fehr is gonna do. No pun intended. Fehr bent Selig over badly. I hope Bettman is willing to actually take him on though.

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01-28-2012, 02:21 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
As a charter member of the Order of the Dolphin & practitioner of the Drake
Equation subscribing to the Fermi Paradox you would know that all too well.

N=R* fp ne fe fi fe L
The extistence of extra-terrestrials might actually explain some of the strange goings on with the business of hockey these days.

(You'll also notice that I modified my post above to "read orbits the sun" rather than orbits the earth. I may be old, but not quite that ancient.)

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01-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #561
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don't like this comment

from ESPN

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/75...-cba-talks-yet

Quote:
"Baseball is far and away -- on a labor relations standpoint -- the most stable of the four (major sports). There's no question about it at this stage. So if you're going to look for role models of what you might want to emulate ... I'm suggesting not to eliminate it from the analysis. It's easy to say they did this in football, they did this in basketball, Gary came from basketball so obviously that's what he's going to do. ... The negotiations are self-contained. The ownership is different, the nature of the sport is different, the economics of the four sports are different. We use the same words like free agency, arbitration, revenue sharing, but they don't mean the same thing between sport to sport or even contract to contract. So let's be a little careful."

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01-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #562
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^^^

What is so ominous about those comments? They are 100% factual.

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01-28-2012, 03:52 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
^^^

What is so ominous about those comments? They are 100% factual.
It may be stable now, but the result of CBA wranglings over the past two decades have left a system in place that is disliked by everyone who is not a Yankees, Phillies, or Red Sox fan.

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01-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #564
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It may be stable now, but the result of CBA wranglings over the past two decades have left a system in place that is disliked by everyone who is not a Yankees, Phillies, or Red Sox fan.
Or an Angels, Rangers, Cardinals, Tigers, Rays, Dodgers, White Sox, Cubs, etc, etc, etc fan. But apparently the system does not work

I think it is refreshing to have someone as intelligent and well spoken as Fehr involved in the NHL. His common sense approach is a breath of fresh air.

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01-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Or an Angels, Rangers, Cardinals, Tigers, Rays, Dodgers, White Sox, Cubs, etc, etc, etc fan. But apparently the system does not work

I think it is refreshing to have someone as intelligent and well spoken as Fehr involved in the NHL. His common sense approach is a breath of fresh air.
i guess it works for the pittsburgh pirates...making profits without putting a quality product on the field...

or it works for tigers who spent close to billion dollars to get prince fielder....

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01-29-2012, 01:57 AM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Or an Angels, Rangers, Cardinals, Tigers, Rays, Dodgers, White Sox, Cubs, etc, etc, etc fan. But apparently the system does not work

I think it is refreshing to have someone as intelligent and well spoken as Fehr involved in the NHL. His common sense approach is a breath of fresh air.
And the other 2/3 of the league?

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01-29-2012, 02:13 AM
  #567
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And the other 2/3 of the league?
Well Rogers is not complaining are they. Neither is Florida.

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01-29-2012, 02:36 AM
  #568
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Well Rogers is not complaining are they. Neither is Florida.
No, of course not. They're making money, the players are making money, and the fans lose.

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01-29-2012, 01:52 PM
  #569
barneyg
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No, of course not. They're making money, the players are making money, and the fans lose.
I agree, but the OP didn't like the argument that baseball currently has the most stable labor relations, which is probably true. Doesn't necessarily mean the NHL should look to emulate that (though Fehr Time clearly thinks it should).

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01-30-2012, 12:12 PM
  #570
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Seattle...

Option A

PACIFIC (1 lone Canadian team)
Vancouver, Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim
NORTHWEST
Edmonton, Calgary, Colorado, Winnipeg, Minnesota
CENTRAL
Dallas, St Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Columbus

Option A

SOUTHEAST
Nashville, Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina, Washington
ATLANTIC
NY Islanders, NY Rangers, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
NORTHEAST
Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo


Option B

NORTHWEST (1 lone US team, 3 TZs)
Seattle, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg
SOUTHWEST (3 TZs)
San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Colorado, Dallas
CENTRAL
Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis, Nashville, Detroit

Option B

SOUTHEAST
Columbus, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida
ATLANTIC
NY Islanders, NY Rangers, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington
NORTHEAST
Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo

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01-30-2012, 12:21 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
After the BoG meeting in December, GB's position was that the League did not need the NHLPA's consent - only notification.

Realignment, the Schedule, and Playoff seeding/format are included in the NHL By-Laws and included in the CBA under the League Rules.



NHLPA consent would only be needed if the changes directly affect the "terms or conditions of employment of any Player" - which is arguable - and even then the NHLPA would need a supportable reason to reject the change ("which shall not be unreasonably withheld").

If the League wanted to push the issue they could either:

1. go ahead with the change and let the NHLPA file a grievance, or
2. file a grievance themselves over the NHLPA's unreasonable witholding of consent.

and let the Independent Arbitrator resolve the issue.

But I agree, this has little to do with realignment, but is pure posturing going into the CBA negotiations.
I like how everyone thinks they know why it happened without even taking time to learn why the NHLPA rejected it. You folks would also be very surprised to know that Fehr does very little "on his own". Never acting without player consent and has demanded of them that each team not only have a player rep but a (minimum) 4 player committee to be involved in deciding any issues they may (or may not) want him to take on in their behalf. Instead of one guy now 25% of the players on each team get weekly updates and daily information about important issues.
The rejection of realignment came from the players, not from Donald Fehr. The vast majority of players would have (could have) seen exponential increase in their travel and time away from home. I know many of you like to treat players as subhumans simply placed here for your viewing pleasure but they have lives (and families) too.
The players (through Fehr) made simple requests of things the owners should have already decided (if they were good at their jobs) and the league never got back to the NHLPA with the requested information. Many players liked the plan ... even though it hurt them personally but they wanted some answers. They wanted the league to be on top of it (travel). They wanted guarantees that they would not be crossing timezones (arbitrary line) to play 1 game (preferred, 2 and 3 game trips, such as 3 games in 4 nights and back home). They wanted the league to limit back to backs involving a home game and instead schedule the needed back to backs involving 2 road games and also no more than 1 day off between games on road trips (minimizes time away from home/family/children).
Most in the know don't think the league was holding back by not giving the requested information, they think the league hadn't even thought about such things. Owners appeared to not care how road trips were structured and were treating the players like pawns to just be used.
The players wanted assurances their lives (the majority of them) would not be turned upside down. They understood their would be impacted but wanted something in place to lessen the blow. The owners showed their only interest was playing the games without any regard for the employees. The players used the only tool available to them. Also note that if you read all the info you will learn the players let the league know well ahead of time that without the data requested they would not approve yet the league makes a big announcement ON THE LAST DAY that the NHLPA has killed realignment.


Last edited by brevard*: 01-30-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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01-30-2012, 12:50 PM
  #572
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I like how everyone thinks they know why it happened without even taking time to learn why the NHLPA rejected it. You folks would also be very surprised to know that Fehr does very little "on his own". Never acting without player consent and has demanded of them that each time not only have a player rep but a (minimum) 4 player committee to be involved in deciding any they want him to take on their behalf. Instead of one guy now 25% of the players on each team get weekly updates and daily information about important issues.
The rejection of realignment came from the players, not from Donald Fehr. The vast majority of players would have (could have) seen exponential increase in their travel and time away from home. I know many of you like to treat players as subhumans simply placed here for your viewing pleasure but they have lives (and families) too.
The players (through Fehr) made simple requests of things the owners should have already decided (if they were good at their jobs) and the league never got back to the NHLPA with the requested information. Many players liked the plan ... even though it hurt them personally but they wanted some answers. They wanted the league to be on top of it (travel). They wanted guarantees that they would not be crossing timezones (arbitrary line) to play 1 game (preferred, 2 and 3 game trips, such as 3 games in 4 nights and back home). They wanted the league to limit back to backs involving a home game and instead schedule the needed back to backs involving 2 road games and also no more than 1 day off between games on road trips (minimizes time away from home/family/children).
Most in the know don't think the league was holding back by not giving the requested information, they think they league hadn't even thought about such things. Owners appeared to not care how road trips were structured and were treating the players like pawns to just be used.
The players wanted assurances their lives (the majority of them) would not be turned upside down. They understood their would be impact but wanted something in place to lessen the blow. The owners showed their only interest was playing the games without any regard for the employees. The players used the only tool available to them. Also note that if you read all the info you will learn the players let the league know well ahead of time that without the data requested they would not approve yet the league makes a big announcement ON THE LAST DAY that the NHLPA has killed realignment.
Excellent post and really makes a strong effort to see the realignment issues from a players perspective and not strictly from a League perspective vs the PA. There almost certainly are negotiation issues here, but rejecting the realignment plan isn't purely posturing. There are player related realignment issues that the players want a say in.

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