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NHLPA rejects league approved four-conference re-alignment

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01-06-2012, 08:38 PM
  #101
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Is Winnipeg a part of this? Yes. Having them in the southeast is stupid yet this realingment is vetoed. Mind you if Detroit will be another complaining team as well, they want to be in the east. Frankly as a Leafs fan I hate our division, I miss the Norris.

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01-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker14 View Post
Apparently.



Perhaps.

I have spent a couple years in labour relations, though, and am confident in my interpretation.
Relax, I wasn't calling into question you couple of years in labour relations (whatever that means). I didn't even question your interpretation which you didn't really provide. There are some key terms you failed to highlight i.e. reasonably. The NHL's press release alludes to this.

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01-06-2012, 08:42 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by shorton724 View Post
And now the NHL will tell the PA they are not going to play in Sochi, this is going to hurt the players a lot more than they think it will.

The NHL should just go ahead with the realignment anyway the PA cannot stop it the NHL allowed them to give their opinion but they do not have to listen to the PA
**** Sochi. Olympics should be for amateurs, these are professionals under contract for millions of dollars.

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01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #104
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Fehr beat Selig what in the holy moly makes you think bettman has a chance?

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01-06-2012, 08:43 PM
  #105
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League wide do players get bonuses for making the playoffs and progressing in the playoffs?

Do some players still have individual bonuses in their contracts for progressing in the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup?

If they do players in a 7 team "conference" have an advantage to make more money than those in 8 team "conferences".

If this is the case and I was a player I may have an issue with this as my earning potential in an 8 team conference is not as good as those players in a 7 team conference.

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01-06-2012, 08:45 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Fehr beat Selig what in the holy moly makes you think bettman has a chance?
Uhh so? Totally different circumstances and Bettman is obviously better at this than Selig.

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01-06-2012, 08:46 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Is Winnipeg a part of this? Yes. Having them in the southeast is stupid yet this realingment is vetoed. Mind you if Detroit will be another complaining team as well, they want to be in the east. Frankly as a Leafs fan I hate our division, I miss the Norris.
As a Jets fan I miss the Norris too.

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01-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
League wide do players get bonuses for making the playoffs and progressing in the playoffs?

Do some players still have individual bonuses in their contracts for progressing in the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup?

If they do players in a 7 team "conference" have an advantage to make more money than those in 8 team "conferences".

If this is the case and I was a player I may have an issue with this as my earning potential in an 8 team conference is not as good as those players in a 7 team conference.
This is such a non-issue. It's the only argument they have though so I guess they'll run with it. The proactive response by the union would be, we see the benefits, here are the concerns, let's try it for a year. The players seem to take the line that impacts the league negatively. It's going to be really hard for the NHLPA to make the realignment look like a negative for the league.

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01-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
League wide do players get bonuses for making the playoffs and progressing in the playoffs?

Do some players still have individual bonuses in their contracts for progressing in the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup?

If they do players in a 7 team "conference" have an advantage to make more money than those in 8 team "conferences".

If this is the case and I was a player I may have an issue with this as my earning potential in an 8 team conference is not as good as those players in a 7 team conference.
Another excellent point!

Players play an 82-game Season to hopefully have their team end with one of the 8 best records in the Conference. Now suddenly with the planned realignment and scheduling format, being the top 8 in the Conference wouldn't matter any more, only being the top-4 in a Division/quasi-Conference. That's yet another detail that could effect players and for which the NHLPA were not part of the decision process in December.

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01-06-2012, 08:50 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
As a Jets fan I miss the Norris too.

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Beauty. Look at that. And all those teams are within 1 time zone in the Western Conference.

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01-06-2012, 08:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Another excellent point!

Players play an 82-game Season to hopefully have their team end with one of the 8 best records in the Conference. Now suddenly with the planned realignment and scheduling format, being the top 8 in the Conference wouldn't matter any more, only being the top-4 in a Division/quasi-Conference. That's yet another detail that could effect players and for which the NHLPA were not part of the decision process in December.
The owner should be more concerned about this shouldn't they? The players still get paid. The owners are the ones who make all the money by making the playoffs. It's a made up excuse.

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01-06-2012, 08:52 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
League wide do players get bonuses for making the playoffs and progressing in the playoffs?

Do some players still have individual bonuses in their contracts for progressing in the playoffs and winning the Stanley Cup?
Yes. The league (part of $$ collected from playoff teams as a portion of gate) pays bonus to teams out in 1st round, larger bonus to teams out in 2nd, even larger to teams ousted in 3rd; plus an even larger bonus to SCF losing team and largest bonus to SCF winning team.

Some ELS or 35+ contracts may have playoff bonuses. Most players may also have bonuses for winning Con Smythe.

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01-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chileiceman View Post
What reason could the players possibly have for not wanting realignment, besides using it as a bargaining chip?
It was an asinine alignment. They had a chance to get it right, but as usual it was a heck of a lot of league politics to keep the coddled children together.

Two SE teams in the NE is one of the biggest jokes around. How long was that ridiculous set up going to stay in place?



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Gerrymandered conference with the old NE and the two Florida teams?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
It's bad sign that they want to fight rather than negotiate. You want another season of no hockey? I don't. Wpg AT THE VERY LEAST should be able to get out of the southeast, it's bush league to have them there.
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
You know what gets better CBA for the players? Actually negotiating in good faith. Trying to take things by force will simply force the NHL to strike back, then we get a war rather than a negotiation. NOBODY wins in that situation.
Bettman negotiating in good faith?

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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post


Probably won't mean much, but I'm happy they voted against this sham of a realignment.
At least it's delayed a year. Some people may come to their senses in the meantime.

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01-06-2012, 08:57 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It was an asinine alignment. They had a chance to get it right, but as usual it was a heck of a lot of league politics to keep the coddled children together.

Two SE teams in the NE is one of the biggest jokes around. How long was that ridiculous set up going to stay in place?

Yes.

Bettman negotiating in good faith?

At least it's delayed a year. Some people may come to their senses in the meantime.
Simple fact, the Florida teams have zero clout compared to the Atlantic teams.

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01-06-2012, 08:57 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
you do understand how hard it is for people to take this pro-labor pov when we're talking about a group of people who make more per year than most of the industrialists the labor movement typically vilifies, yes? I mean, I get that you're a gag poster and your schtick is you love the rights of the worker more than the game of hockey, but there is absolutely no reason for anyone to sympathize with the exploited hockey player who now has to fly an extra hour to earn their $550,000 per year (minimum).

We all know another strike/lockout is coming now. Fehr is clearly a graduate of the Margaret Thatcher school of negotiation politics ("no, no, no,").
Such drama, Brodie. Is there some reason to sympathize with the billionaire owners crying poor again? (When they claim they can't hack it when players get 54-57% of HRR.) Oh no! HRR grew too fast and we never really thought we'd have to give the players 57%! Woe is us!!!!!!!



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Originally Posted by 2525 View Post
While I don't necessarily agree with Fehr Time, does anyone know if the NHLPA were consulted in the realignment talks, or did the owners just have a committee of themselves?

My way of thinking, you should involve the players in any changes that affect them.
The NHLPA was informed of the agreement and the BOG's approval. They were not part of the discussion. That was all done behind the scenes to make sure that some teams stayed in the Atlantic Divison together.

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01-06-2012, 08:58 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Agreed. Too many playoff rounds could very well lead to more injuries and a subsequent deterioration of the quality of play. Players should not have to play so much hockey, it is bad for them and the fans.
What is this fantastic 5-round playoff system you people are babbling about anyway?

The proposed system would've consisted of 4 rounds like now; all the hubbub was only about the mysterious 3rd round which was not specified whether the remaining teams would be reseeded for it or if it would follow a bracketed format (whereby the two conference champions from the old Eastern Conference would automatically meet instead of potential East vs. West matchups or some other pre-set bracket, it's not the point). At least this is what I've gathered.

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01-06-2012, 08:59 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
The owner should be more concerned about this shouldn't they? The players still get paid. The owners are the ones who make all the money by making the playoffs. It's a made up excuse.
Fine, you're right... to a degree... But players still do receive bonuses and their part in all this wasn't given enough say, if any. The NHLPA likely looked at all the details of this planned realignment and decided that there is enough there that involves them that in the end certain adjustments should be made related to player $ benefit. And until those adjustments are in place, the NHLPA isn't backing the radical realignment. It certainly is a "negotiating tool" as many here are saying, but likely also the NHLPA see details of the realignment that directly effect the players and should be dealt with... or better, should have been dealt with as part of any radical realignment process.

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01-06-2012, 08:59 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
Simple fact, the Florida teams have zero clout compared to the Atlantic teams.

Who gives a rat's ass about clout? This is supposed to be a league--- 30 teams looking out for what's best for the LEAGUE.

Instead they come up with 2 conferences of 8, and 2 of 7, requiring Florida-based teams to be in a divsion with the most concentrated northernmost grouping. An absolute joke that they would consider that set up, let alone approve it.

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01-06-2012, 09:01 PM
  #119
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Moving the FL teams to the NE makes a ton of sense for those clubs, who do really well when the NE teams come down. Not exactly orthodox, but it was a good idea. This rejection is idiotic. Nice loophole in the CBA, too. Assume the league got legal on that to see if the PA had a legitimate objection, or they wouldn't be bailing like this so fast.

I also don't know why anyone would object to going back to divisional style playoffs. The league needs to build more rivalries and bad blood. Too many teams now, too many possible playoff opponents.

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01-06-2012, 09:01 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Such drama, Brodie. Is there some reason to sympathize with the billionaire owners crying poor again? (When they claim they can't hack it when players get 54-57% of HRR.) Oh no! HRR grew too fast and we never really thought we'd have to give the players 57%! Woe is us!!!!!!!





The NHLPA was informed of the agreement and the BOG's approval. They were not part of the discussion. That was all done behind the scenes to make sure that some teams stayed in the Atlantic Divison together.
The NHLPA is only entitled to be informed.

Is the going to become another my side, your side argument? I know I can look at these issues independent of any side. I guess we can make it a meaningless discussion about siding with billionaires or millionaires.

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01-06-2012, 09:02 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Fine, you're right... to a degree... But players still do receive bonuses and their part in all this wasn't given enough say, if any. The NHLPA likely looked at all the details of this planned realignment and decided that there is enough there that involves them that in the end certain adjustments should be made related to player $ benefit. And until those adjustments are in place, the NHLPA isn't backing the radical realignment. It certainly is a "negotiating tool" as many here are saying, but likely also the NHLPA see details of the realignment that directly effect the players and should be dealt with... or better, should have been dealt with as part of any radical realignment process.
Do you know how little their bonuses are?

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01-06-2012, 09:02 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
Simple fact, the Florida teams have zero clout compared to the Atlantic teams.
Make me some prune juice

Will this affect Quebec City and Phoenix? NHL can go ahead with the Coyotes relocation as Nordiques 2 even though the NHL/PA approves or rejects the plan. So move the desert dogs anyway.

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01-06-2012, 09:03 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Fine, you're right... to a degree... But players still do receive bonuses and their part in all this wasn't given enough say, if any. The NHLPA likely looked at all the details of this planned realignment and decided that there is enough there that involves them that in the end certain adjustments should be made related to player $ benefit. And until those adjustments are in place, the NHLPA isn't backing the radical realignment. It certainly is a "negotiating tool" as many here are saying, but likely also the NHLPA see details of the realignment that directly effect the players and should be dealt with... or better, should have been dealt with as part of any radical realignment process.

I think the problem is two-fold.

It's uneven. You really need to have identical odds and challenges. Add two teams or contract two teams (right) or don't do it half-assed.

Secondly, players can get bonuses that are based solely on playoff results. If your odds of getting to the playoffs just got tougher, but furthermore are different from players in a different grouping--- that does change the conditions of their contract potentials.

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01-06-2012, 09:03 PM
  #124
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Aportzline 6:39pm via TweetDeck Dispatch has obtained NHLPA's letter to the NHL detailing its issues with realignment plan adopted by Board of Governors. At issue ...
1)NHLPA says it has asked for a full example of 2012-13 schedule so it can measure travels miles, days off on road b/w games, etc., per club
... and has not received such a schedule, so it's impossible to measure fairness and equity for each team in new plan/format.
NHLPA: "While we agree that Players and Clubs should share an interest in limiting the travel burdens, before we are able to consent ...
... we must have a reliable basis upon which to understand how travel under the proposal would differ or, at a minimum, assurances based ...
"... on a set of guidelines or scheduling metrics that future travel would not be worse than under the current system. Our offers ... "
" ... to meet with the League in pursuit of such assurances have not been accepted."
2)NHLPA strongly objects to two conferences with seven clubs, two with eight.
NHLPA: "Simply put, Players believe that all teams should have equal access to the playoffs and strongly object to the proposed format..."
"... because it would reward the 14 teams in the two smaller conferences with a permanent advantage in qualifying for the playoffs."






Link to NHLPA statement: http://t.co/K476nUYi

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01-06-2012, 09:04 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Who gives a rat's ass about clout? This is supposed to be a league--- 30 teams looking out for what's best for the LEAGUE.

Instead they come up with 2 conferences of 8, and 2 of 7, requiring Florida-based teams to be in a divsion with the most concentrated northernmost grouping. An absolute joke that they would consider that set up, let alone approve it.
Fugu, where was your participation in all those realignment threads, I could've used your support. But unfortunately "clout" has a big say in League decisions; the resulting realignment is a testiment to that.

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