I wouldn't expect any kind of big free agent signing next summer. The team is already going to be adding a fairly massive amount of salary in simply paying Benn and Goligoski closer to what they're worth. They'll lose money this season and likely the next. Lots of it. Gaglardi can deal with those losses, but then you add another big ticket contract on top of that? I don't know.
Gaglardi made it pretty clear on the radio recently with a quote something along the lines of "the Dallas Stars are not where I make my money," when he said he was here to invest and win, so I don't think he's that concerned about the losses early on.
That big ticket contract, if it's one that fits with the framework of Nieuwendyk's team, can help with all the things mentioned like ticket sales and marketing, so from a business point of view, it may be money wisely spent. Whether a player is out there for the right price, however, may be the question.
Half the league should be going after Suter. And given Nieuwendyk's track record of the decisions he's made so far I don't see him overspending. He'll probably figure out another under-the-radar player that will fit perfectly in the team. But given he has no more limitations in spending it'll be very interesting to see his role in all this. But as some of you said, I also expect trading one of our D + more for someone big up front rather than an huge UFA pickup this offseason.
Including new contracts for Benn, Goligoski, Burish, Fistric, Larsen, Bachman and Grossman (yes, hopefully all of them) our caphit will rise dramatically.
I really don't understand why some of you want Grossman traded. He and Daley (no idea how) are the ONLY defenseman we have with a positive + -.
Now I know it's a controversial stat and a lot of you don't like it. But let's look at the facts here... Grossman has been on the ice for more good things than bad, over ALL of our other defenseman.(well tied with Daley)
I'm not sure if we're watching different games or what, but Grossman has a good outlet pass, he can hit, he'll box people out of the crease, and he's not an idiot behind our own goal.
Also don't understand why you'd want to trade one of our BIGGEST defenseman in hopes of getting better on D. How the hell is little Sami Lepisto going to clear Corey Perry, Joe Pavelski, or Dustin Brown from in front of the net? He's not. Grossman can stand toe to toe with anybody in this league in front of our net and do well.
On to Suter and Weber.
I remember a time when just about everybody on this board was absolutely furious that we gave Souray a contract when it was clearly an awesome move. Guy is ruthless in front of the net, he's got an insane shot from the point, he's a dick on the ice, and he's a great mentor to the younger players.
Shea Weber is a Sheldon Souray on steroids. Massive mean streak, shot is about on par, and he's **** anybody up on the ice for anything remotely offensive to his team. How could anybody not want that on your team?
I understand Suter has all of these offensive intangibles, but to those saying he's on par with Weber defensively. You're just kidding yourselves, there's zero chance ANY GM in this league chooses Suter over Weber for defensive talents.
Half the league should be going after Suter. And given Nieuwendyk's track record of the decisions he's made so far I don't see him overspending. He'll probably figure out another under-the-radar player that will fit perfectly in the team. But given he has no more limitations in spending it'll be very interesting to see his role in all this. But as some of you said, I also expect trading one of our D + more for someone big up front rather than an huge UFA pickup this offseason.
Including new contracts for Benn, Goligoski, Burish, Fistric, Larsen, Bachman and Grossman (yes, hopefully all of them) our caphit will rise dramatically.
So you're advocating increased spending to keep the same below average team intact?
Half the league should be going after Suter. And given Nieuwendyk's track record of the decisions he's made so far I don't see him overspending. He'll probably figure out another under-the-radar player that will fit perfectly in the team. But given he has no more limitations in spending it'll be very interesting to see his role in all this. But as some of you said, I also expect trading one of our D + more for someone big up front rather than an huge UFA pickup this offseason.
Including new contracts for Benn, Goligoski, Burish, Fistric, Larsen, Bachman and Grossman (yes, hopefully all of them) our caphit will rise dramatically.
Those are the only guys I'd re-sign if I'm GMJN.
Grossman is solid but he can walk.
Fistric is nothing spectacular and IMO hasn't developed a lick and won't be much else for us in his career.
Burish can be found on the FA market next summer for us in someone who can maybe pot a few more goals.
As for this years trade deadline, we don't have a James Neal to dangle in front of teams so I don't think we make a big trade. But I think we sell off a few players if we aren't in a playoff position.
If we are in a playoff position, I can't see us doing a lot either. The assets we have we don't want to give up for the future.
So you're advocating increased spending to keep the same below average team intact?
This team was a ball hair's width away from making the playoffs last year. With a more top heavy offense for most of the year.
Well, we want to keep Benn and Larsen. Benn will command a huge chunk of cap, Larsen will get a small raise if he sticks, which he will (oh god please)
I'm on the fence on Goligoski, because if Larsen can take his role, we're in good shape and can trade him for someone else.
I'd prefer to keep Fistric, too, solely because he brings that mean physical edge to the ice when he plays. Can't expect every D-man to have great offensive instincts. Still reasonably cheap since he's just a bottom pair plugger right now.
Bachman is pretty much the de facto backup for next year, unless we move him for other assets but... it's not like we need to.
Grossman will be reasonably cheap. 2.5/year for 2 years. It's not like he'll want Volchenkov money. I could see him getting moved at the deadline for a 1st+, since that would be the only logical return for a 26 year old excellent shutdown D-man.
Burish, I could go either way. He's cheap, decent 4th liner type. Great character guy. Can't seem him demanding a huge raise, but I could see him walking.
Moving Robidas and Pardy still gives us 5.3 million in addition to the 16 million we have already. Plus Avery is off the books.
There will be UFAs out there that can make the team better, and that we can fit into the roster without giving up the things we do have to sign them.
Next year assuming only Pardy and Robidas get moved:
(Jordie Benn? Dillon? A return of Sheldon? Another UFA?)
Lehtonen
Bachman
(Besko down the chart)
We have to fill roster spots. I would rather dangle Goligoski and a prospect for an upgrade on the backend. I would rather get another top 6 forward like Parise or someone like Dustin Penner (but god not Dustin Penner) to slot in where Ott is and move Ott down the lineup to the third line where his skill set (and accompanying offensive awareness) belongs.
Goligoski isn't getting flipped so soon. A huge portion of our future has been staked on him like it or not. Especially considering the high price we paid for him. The more a player gets traded the more intrinsic value they lose around the league.
Grossman has been terrible this season. His development has completely stagnated and now he's regressing. For someone who plays a safe game he makes an inexcusable amount of stupid mistakes and turnovers.
Souray was good for like 2 or 3 weeks. Then the rest of the league remembered how to play against him and he got promptly burned up and down the ice repeatedly and couldn't get his shot through from the point anymore.
Goligoski isn't getting flipped so soon. A huge portion of our future has been staked on him like it or not. Especially considering the high price we paid for him. The more a player gets traded the more intrinsic value they lose around the league.
Grossman has been terrible this season. His development has completely stagnated and now he's regressing. For someone who plays a safe game he makes an inexcusable amount of stupid mistakes and turnovers.
Souray was good for like 2 or 3 weeks. Then the rest of the league remembered how to play against him and he got promptly burned up and down the ice repeatedly and couldn't get his shot through from the point anymore.
You know me, I was completely devastated when we traded Niskanen. It was an absurd overpayment for Goligoski.
Gonna have to agree with Cin, still. Grossman hasn't been "completely terrible".
Souray has been pedestrian lately because they play a tight point against him and we can't move the puck fast enough to make space for him (can of worms opened)
Pardy has been downright terrible except for that one game... where he was paired with Grossman. Robidas has been consistently doing the wrong thing defensively (passing to no one, getting obliterated going for a hit, pinching at inopportune times, playing the shooter on a 2 on 1)
Calling Grossman an excellent shutdown d-man is mind boggling in my eyes. He's average. If he played with the mean streak he showed a few times last season he can be a good defenseman. However, I haven't seen that from him this year.
Calling Grossman an excellent shutdown d-man is mind boggling in my eyes. He's average. If he played with the mean streak he showed a few times last season he can be a good defenseman. However, I haven't seen that from him this year.
Calling Grossman an excellent shutdown d-man is mind boggling in my eyes. He's average. If he played with the mean streak he showed a few times last season he can be a good defenseman. However, I haven't seen that from him this year.
His positioning has always been excellent. He battles in the corners. He blocks shots (leads the team). He takes the hit to make the pass and stays on his feet (unlike our insane little glutton for punishment)... He plays the system like he's supposed to.
And you want to trade him, when he's helping the team? No one to replace what he brings (stability and size and good positioning)... The only thing he doesn't have is offense, and that's why we have Larsen, Daley and Gogo, right? Oh right he plays with Daley. So Daley can take chances and get hot like he has been since being put with Grossman.
Addition by subtraction works when the guy is doing an absolutely crappy job (see Pardy, Adam) and causing a lot of goals against, but Grossman isn't.
We have no one to replace him with, Nemeth is 1-2 years out, Oleksiak is 2-3 years out, the UFA market is filled with guys I wouldn't replace him with (there's 5 guys there I would replace Grossman with, 4 of which are nigh impossible to obtain).
So suck it up, re-sign Grossman for 2 years to bridge the gap until Nemeth/Oleksiak are ready for the big show. He's an excellent defenseman. You know. Good at playing defense.
This is honestly comical now. People want to subtract Grossman AND Fistrict and expect to have a competent D core.
They're DEFENSEMAN, not offensive juggernauts. When you have to start looking for offensive minded D men to help with the offensive game then there's a flaw in your OFFENSE. Defenseman are made to play defense. That means blocking shots, clearing the net, and playing a sound positional game. Grossman does that. Fistric does it even better I think.
So we want to do this apparently...
Trade Grossman, Fistrict, and Pardy. 3 of our biggest defenseman. Then replace them with Larsen (small) Lepisto (small) and Jordie Benn (meh).
You'll see a much, much more severe downturn to our teams game when you lose size and presence on the backend. It just doesn't work.
Our D is actually pretty decent now. Unfortunately it suffers because half of our forwards can't back check and make their own chances without help from the back. Not the D's problem.
Don't lump Pardy in there with Grossman and Fistric, Cin. Pardy can't cover his man in front of the net, nor does he use his size effectively. Nor is his positioning good enough to make up for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaSteve
Wait. You guys think Fistric is an every game NHL-quality defenseman?
Bottom pair, but yes. Greg Zanon had a job for the longest time, didn't he?
Robidas and Pardy need to exit if we're going to bring in Larsen and the proselytized #1 D-man.
Don't lump Pardy in there with Grossman and Fistric, Cin. Pardy can't cover his man in front of the net, nor does he use his size effectively. Nor is his positioning good enough to make up for that.
Bottom pair, but yes. Greg Zanon had a job for the longest time, didn't he?
Robidas and Pardy need to exit if we're going to bring in Larsen and the proselytized #1 D-man.
I'm speaking on size of the players alone, not skill. When you put defenseman out there that are smaller than half of our forwards you won't win games.
If Fistric and Grossman take the same money (or a very small raise) as they make now, just resign them both. Unless Souray finds his game again, let him walk. It was a nice try, but I don't really think keeping him is a good idea. Find someway to drop Pardy, please. Trade Robidas + pick/prospect (Klingberg, Vance, etc.) to get an upgrade on D (younger, a bit better, can't think of an example). Sign Hemsky, let Dvorak walk and bump Ott to the third line. If there's another defensemen available through UFA that could help, maybe go after him (especially if we can't trade Robidas). The 4th line can just be pieced together with what we have and UFAs or something, shouldn't be much of a challenge.
The window to trade Robidas and get anything of significant value has pretty much closed. Should have sold high on him three years ago. Same for Morrow.
The window to trade Robidas and get anything of significant value has pretty much closed. Should have sold high on him three years ago. Same for Morrow.
The only real tradable asset we have is Ribeiro.
Yeah, I really doubt we'd get anything for Ribeiro right now. Robidas needs to be moved almost regardless of return.
Why do you people want to keep the players currently playing for us that have resulted in us having a terrible defense?
We're basically stuck with Daley and as a lower pairing guy I have no problems with him. They're not going to trade Goligoski or Larsen. Which means they have three spots open and need some bigger players.
Fistric is an RFA and as a bottom pairing guy perfectly fine. Grossman is a UFA and they still haven't offered him an extension. Does that tell you guys something? If he's not going to be here beyond this season he needs to be traded to get back an asset or two. I don't expect a 1st but a 2nd and a prospect could be a really good deal for Dallas.
Robidas is old, slow, makes far too many mistakes, his "leadership" only takes him so far and he makes too much money. Keeping him is saying let's have another season of mediocre to bad defense. I can only hope he'll be moved at the deadline. Perhaps this offseason at worst but keeping him and playing him 20+ minutes will prevent this team from taking the next step forward.
Sourey was a great story to start but then he couldn't keep his shot from being blocked. Didn't box out in front of his own net and started to turnover the puck at the offensive blue line. He's a guy it was good to take a chance on but beyond that he's nothing special. I'd rather see Jordie Benn and that says nothing good about Sourey. He should not be in this team's long term plans.
Pardy is your 7th unless JN decides to release him, which I can't imagine will happen as long as they want to carry 7 defensemen. He shouldn't see the ice before Benn does though.
Everyone wants Suter or Weber and pinning our hopes on getting one of them seems unrealistic no matter that this team finally has money to throw around. They've got to want to come here and Dallas is no longer a choice destination for a lot of FA. Trade what you can to gather assets then see if you can find a guy out of favor with his club. Failing that trade those gathered assets to acquire a #2, because outside of luring Suter, Weber trading for a #1 rarely happens.
