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Tor - Min

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Old
01-07-2012, 04:40 AM
  #1
yideboit
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Tor - Min

I'm not going to waste a ton of time explaining my thoughts here, since normally that is skipped over anyways. Just something I think could help both teams moving forward...

Very basic premise behind this... Toronto needs less goals against (Harding) and better pk (Cullen)

Wild need to improve their offense (Connolly) and pp (Liles)


- Matt Cullen*
- Josh Harding


- Tim Connolly*
- J.M. Liles*
- Conditional pick - 3rd round pick 2012 (guarenteed) turns to 2nd round (2012) if Leafs make playoffs with Harding starting more than 60% of games he's healthy for and turns to 1st (2013) if the Leafs make conference finals
- Conditional pick as high as 2nd rounder (2013) if Connolly plays less than 65 games next year, otherwise 4th rounder (2013 draft)

*obviously conditional on ntc's being waived (or teams being on the list provided in modified ntc)

------

- side note question for wild fans ... are you at all concerned as to what Harding's demands will be this summer as ufa? 6 mill for Backstrom and he has decent if not great numbers this year!

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01-07-2012, 04:53 AM
  #2
Xamboni
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Thats not how conditional picks work lol

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01-07-2012, 04:55 AM
  #3
yideboit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavTrick View Post
Thats not how conditional picks work lol
...how so? lol...

i'm pretty sure both those conditions have been used in the last 3-4 years around the league

if i'm wrong ... how DO they work

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01-07-2012, 04:57 AM
  #4
yideboit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavTrick View Post
Thats not how conditional picks work lol
on second thought ... lol ... check out this link ... lol

http://www.prosportstransactions.com...Years/2012.htm

it shows both those conditional pick circumstances (games played + finishing position) being used ... lol ....

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Old
01-07-2012, 05:04 AM
  #5
Rodimus Prime
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The leafs in the past year have use both of those types of conditions. Lombardi games played as one example and kaberle/ Boston making the finals

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01-07-2012, 06:14 AM
  #6
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you thing we can make the confrence finals??

and how it that gonna happen if you make this trade... the team gets worse AND we lose picks....

harding cannot be that valueable... he is a backup.


toronto over pays and if ur gonna grab a goalie from minny i am assuming they would want an NHL backup in return... reimer or gustavvson...

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01-07-2012, 07:26 AM
  #7
Pyromaniac3
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Severely undervaluing Liles' contribution to leafs as well as Connolly's.

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Old
01-07-2012, 08:02 AM
  #8
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id do it if that was backstrom coming to TO instead of harding..

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Old
01-07-2012, 08:14 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yideboit View Post
I'm not going to waste a ton of time explaining my thoughts here, since normally that is skipped over anyways. Just something I think could help both teams moving forward...

Very basic premise behind this... Toronto needs less goals against (Harding) and better pk (Cullen)

Wild need to improve their offense (Connolly) and pp (Liles)


- Matt Cullen*
- Josh Harding


- Tim Connolly*
- J.M. Liles*
- Conditional pick - 3rd round pick 2012 (guarenteed) turns to 2nd round (2012) if Leafs make playoffs with Harding starting more than 60% of games he's healthy for and turns to 1st (2013) if the Leafs make conference finals
- Conditional pick as high as 2nd rounder (2013) if Connolly plays less than 65 games next year, otherwise 4th rounder (2013 draft)

*obviously conditional on ntc's being waived (or teams being on the list provided in modified ntc)

------

- side note question for wild fans ... are you at all concerned as to what Harding's demands will be this summer as ufa? 6 mill for Backstrom and he has decent if not great numbers this year!
T.O takes it in the pooper here,we dont need another backup...JML very underated on these boards,some would say hes are best d man this year!

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01-07-2012, 08:29 AM
  #10
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Harding is just as much a 'number 1 goalie' as Reimer and Gustavsson.

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Old
01-07-2012, 08:35 AM
  #11
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Doesn't make sense, Wild are trying to move D men right now... why trade for another?

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01-07-2012, 09:11 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavTrick View Post
Thats not how conditional picks work lol
I don't think YOU know how they work. . . lol

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Old
01-07-2012, 10:14 AM
  #13
TOGuy14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yideboit View Post
I'm not going to waste a ton of time explaining my thoughts here, since normally that is skipped over anyways. Just something I think could help both teams moving forward...

Very basic premise behind this... Toronto needs less goals against (Harding) and better pk (Cullen)

Wild need to improve their offense (Connolly) and pp (Liles)


- Matt Cullen*
- Josh Harding


- Tim Connolly*
- J.M. Liles*
- Conditional pick - 3rd round pick 2012 (guarenteed) turns to 2nd round (2012) if Leafs make playoffs with Harding starting more than 60% of games he's healthy for and turns to 1st (2013) if the Leafs make conference finals
- Conditional pick as high as 2nd rounder (2013) if Connolly plays less than 65 games next year, otherwise 4th rounder (2013 draft)

*obviously conditional on ntc's being waived (or teams being on the list provided in modified ntc)

------

- side note question for wild fans ... are you at all concerned as to what Harding's demands will be this summer as ufa? 6 mill for Backstrom and he has decent if not great numbers this year!
Toronto won't give up what has been our best center this year, and our best PPQB for a goalie upgrade. Too many important parts getting dealt.

If it was Grabo instead of Connolly, and Franson instead of Liles then perhaps.

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Old
01-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto won't give up what has been our best center this year, and our best PPQB for a goalie upgrade. Too many important parts getting dealt.

If it was Grabo instead of Connolly, and Franson instead of Liles then perhaps.
Or Franson for Harding straight up? Leafs would have to move the Monster though.

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01-07-2012, 10:21 AM
  #15
broc
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When did I get on the train to awfulville?

That's where this trade lives.

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Old
01-07-2012, 10:33 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broc View Post
When did I get on the train to awfulville?

That's where this trade lives.

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Old
01-07-2012, 10:34 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromaniac3 View Post
Severely undervaluing Liles' contribution to leafs as well as Connolly's.
I like Liles and he would definitely be an upgrade over Zidlicky. Two pronged problem is with this trade we will still have Zids, and JML is currently on IR indefinitely for concussion like symptoms. So Liles is of no help for us. And like another poster said we are currently up to our neck in Dmen.
Connolly is a stiff breeze away from an IR vacation as well. The Wild are having their own problems staying healthy. All indications that Granlund will sign with us and given every opportunity to capture that #2 center position next year. Trading away Harding creates a big hole in our back up goalie slot. Matt Hackett would probably suffice quite well as our back up, but as he is still extremely young and his career would benefit from regular reps in Houston.
So this trade creates a hole at one position(goalie), strengthens a position that isn't a point of need this year(defense), and get a player that may not even crack our top 6 next season(Connolly at just under $5M).
As far as value, it is definitely there. So I am not crying foul in that regard, but I don't believe tht it is a trade prop that is so lopsided in Minnesota's favor as I read in these posts. Just does not really help the Wild.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eamonn View Post
Harding is just as much a 'number 1 goalie' as Reimer and Gustavsson.
And that is coming from a (I assume) Canuck fan.


I'm not worried about us being able to re-sign Harding. Even if he does command $2.5M-$3M the Wild can afford(although I'm sure not ideal) to have $9M wrapped up in goaltending for next season until Backstrom's $6M comes off the books in '13.

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Old
01-07-2012, 12:32 PM
  #18
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This is awful for the Leafs

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01-07-2012, 12:46 PM
  #19
yideboit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Toronto won't give up what has been our best center this year, and our best PPQB for a goalie upgrade. Too many important parts getting dealt.

If it was Grabo instead of Connolly, and Franson instead of Liles then perhaps.
well ... i dont know if i undervalue them as much as i overvalue grabo and franson then because personally ... especially in the years to come ... i'd rather have both those players!

and the main reason i'm ok with shipping connolly is because bozak has bounced back this year when playing with kessel and theres also the concern of injuries that he hasn't proved he can avoid

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01-07-2012, 12:50 PM
  #20
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To me, this is a pretty pointless deal to make, the wild arent getting anything special in return , and Hardings the best piece in this trade, but all 4 players involved in this trade have had injury problems in the past, i dont think the wild do this though,

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Old
01-07-2012, 12:54 PM
  #21
yideboit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsFan2342 View Post
This is awful for the Leafs
despite the vagueness of this reply and having no idea what youre referring to ... i think that you forget how AWFUL the pk is / has been AND how questionable if not AWFUL the goaltending has been ...

others here have been debating the undervalue of liles this proposal suggests ... but i think theres 2 players on the roster who could help fill that void in gardiner and gunnarsson and the help to the pk (the worst area for the team) outweighs the loss in a puck moving dman imo ...

and in reply to the poster who said they thought that minny would want reimer or gustavsson back ... i personally think they'd roll with matt hackett for the year and if he cant prove serviceable long term ... then sign/trade for a vetern at the deadline and / or in the off-season

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Old
01-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #22
SeenSchenn2
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Wtf? Why does Toronto do this?

We can't afford to lose TC/JML. Vital parts to our success on the PP and 5-on-5 play.

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Old
01-07-2012, 12:57 PM
  #23
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While I think the Wild are getting extremely overpaid in this deal:

The details on Cullen's NTC are unknown, but there's almost no chance that he waives it for anyone if it comes to a situation requiring that.

We'd love to have Liles, but we'd have to get rid of 3 other d-men in order to fit him on the roster.

While Hackett is capable of being the backup in St. Paul, it's better for his development to continue getting the starts in Houston this season. I'm not sure if we'd be capable of recalling Endras from Finland (he's on loan to HIFK), but that would resolve that issue.

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01-07-2012, 12:58 PM
  #24
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Yikes, god no. Liles and Connolly have played excellent in Toronto. No thanks.

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01-07-2012, 01:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yideboit View Post
and in reply to the poster who said they thought that minny would want reimer or gustavsson back ... i personally think they'd roll with matt hackett for the year and if he cant prove serviceable long term ... then sign/trade for a vetern at the deadline and / or in the off-season
Hackett is 21 years old. He's our goalie of the future and needs as much development time as we can give him. Giving him a backup position in the NHL isn't going to do much for his development right now, so it's better if we can find a way to keep him getting the starts in Houston this year.

As I mentioned though, we might have the opportunity to recall Endras from HIFK where he's on loan. He was brought in as insurance for Harding, and should be capable of performing backup duties.

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