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#42 Kings get BJ'd ... Can we just STOP w/ Afternoon games already ?

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01-07-2012, 08:31 PM
  #151
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
i never thought id say this, you can even tell by my username, but kopitar should just get traded.
That's a little much, I think Kopitar is just in an extended slump.

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01-07-2012, 08:33 PM
  #152
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I am starting to see what Dean was talking about when he first got the job.

Dean Lombardi was saying (You have to get at least get Two Roster players out of every Draft). I can see now how not developing or having anyone able to come up is going to just destroy your team.
Bingo. No entry level contract producers = can't win anything in a capped era. No scoring forwards developed through Manchester onto the NHL club yet. It stings bad.

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01-07-2012, 08:35 PM
  #153
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I still don't get the whole "its the players" group.

So some how ALL of our scorers are in the worst droughts of their careers.

Sure its the players.

Sure it is.

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01-07-2012, 08:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I still don't get the whole "its the players" group.

So some how ALL of our scorers are in the worst droughts of their careers.

Sure its the players.

Sure it is.
Why is that so hard to believe? I mean players slump. Kopitar does it every year, and he is a very skilled Guy(has done it under Two different coaches now).

Richardson/Lewis/clifford/Fraser/Westy have never been big producers(or even Average). Why did anyone expect them to be all of a sudden ?

I am just seeing what I see, a team that can't score. That has already fired a Coach.

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01-07-2012, 08:37 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I still don't get the whole "its the players" group.

So some how ALL of our scorers are in the worst droughts of their careers.

Sure its the players.

Sure it is.
It's the smog.

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01-07-2012, 08:38 PM
  #156
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I posed a question yesterday in a thread that went largely un-noticed. How do they look at practice when they scrimmage? Are they having the same problem scoring at practice? I know practice and games are different, at the same time a lot can be determined. At practice is there a lack of scoring also?

At this point personally I think there is a lack of skill. Their shots are either wide or dead center on net. To me that is guys that can't thread the needle. Their target is "on net". It isn't picking a corner, or a hole. When they do go for the corner, they shoot wide. They try compensate and then they drill it into the chest protector. I'm not talking a few guys on this roster, I am talking everyone on this team. Again it screams. LA NEEDS A SNIPER!

Worse I think their decision making is absolutely awful. Guys hold the puck to long all the stinking time. The PP and especially the 5 on 3's that puck should be moving constantly. Snap! Snap! Snap! None of this hold, fake shot, hold, fake again....then pass/shoot. Their shooting skill is horrible, but the decision making makes things 10x's worse. Delayed decisions allow defenders and goalies to get in position. Fast decisions that lead to quick puck movement, get defenders/goalies out of position and suddenly it's easier to score.

JJ and DD on the point have been awful, they are over analyzing every PP. You either have a shot or you don't. It's that simple. You don't, then move the damn puck. Personally I can't wait for VV to get back. He was moving the puck better. WW does a better job now also. He either shoots or moves it.

This doesn't apply to just the PP. It's also very apparent on the breakout, transition and 5on5 situations. The decision making overall is just to slow overall. I sit and watch the guys hitting seams down the slot or backside. Do they NOT see the same guys? Are they so trained, in-grained from TMu on making these passes they just ignore them? The last few games they seem to have gone back to a more N-S game. The first few games with BBF I was seeing more cross ice movement, or bring it back around the weak side. They seem to have gotten away from this again.

Penner being scratched, I am praying he's on a flight out in the next 24-hours. I can't stomach watching him any longer. The guy/gal cutting that paycheck must get queezy and sick to their stomach every time that check is cut. $4M+ for what? At this point I would rather see Westie out there every game, rather than Penner. At least Westie will take the body. That alone is an improvement.

Enough with MR on Kopi's line. It doesn't work. How many more times do we have to seem them bumping into each other? They bump into each other because they both are playing C out there. They are both reading the play the same, instead of one of them looking to setup for a shot. Especially MR, I've seen him numerous times now go in on the puck as if Kopi is even near it. LA needs scoring and stacking these two on one line makes it easy for the opposing team to stack its D. With Gag's out, there is an issue for his LW obviously but this ain't working.

BBF has brought some much needed energy. There has been improvement and the team has taken steps forward away from the tailspin they were in with TMu. At the same time more needs to happen and I still don't think DS will ultimately get them there. Especially with the current setup. If you want Sutter as your coach, then you give me full control within his responsibilities. That includes the asst coaches. Personally the only asst that goes untouched without question is B Ranford. There is no issue with the keepers. Stevens coaching of the D is damn good, but how/what impact is it having on offensive output. As a result he has to be considered as well.

Over on Surly-Scribe's blog I said flat out this will be the "worse decision" in team history. The longer that DL & DS are around and they keep trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole mentality....this team will flounder. My fear is DL will keep 'tinkering' with the parts to the point the roster, prospects and picks are back to 2006 levels.

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01-07-2012, 08:40 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Bingo. No entry level contract producers = can't win anything in a capped era. No scoring forwards developed through Manchester onto the NHL club yet. It stings bad.
Isn't this Dean's fault? Most NHL players come out of the first round and his love for defenseman (Teubert, Hickey, Forbort) and refusal to draft wingers high has crippled this franchise

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01-07-2012, 08:40 PM
  #158
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Since we are lacking production at Wing injured or not (Gagne/Penner) maybe it wouldn't hurt to call up Cliche, Vey or Kozun or someone.

Lewis-Kopitar-Richardson
Brown-Stoll-Williams
Kozun-Richards-Fraser
Clifford-Loktionov-Cliche

Don't shhot me yet!

Unless we trade for a player or two let's see what we've got...

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01-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
I posed a question yesterday in a thread that went largely un-noticed. How do they look at practice when they scrimmage? Are they having the same problem scoring at practice? I know practice and games are different, at the same time a lot can be determined. At practice is there a lack of scoring also?

At this point personally I think there is a lack of skill. Their shots are either wide or dead center on net. To me that is guys that can't thread the needle. Their target is "on net". It isn't picking a corner, or a hole. When they do go for the corner, they shoot wide. They try compensate and then they drill it into the chest protector. I'm not talking a few guys on this roster, I am talking everyone on this team. Again it screams. LA NEEDS A SNIPER!

Worse I think their decision making is absolutely awful. Guys hold the puck to long all the stinking time. The PP and especially the 5 on 3's that puck should be moving constantly. Snap! Snap! Snap! None of this hold, fake shot, hold, fake again....then pass/shoot. Their shooting skill is horrible, but the decision making makes things 10x's worse. Delayed decisions allow defenders and goalies to get in position. Fast decisions that lead to quick puck movement, get defenders/goalies out of position and suddenly it's easier to score.

JJ and DD on the point have been awful, they are over analyzing every PP. You either have a shot or you don't. It's that simple. You don't, then move the damn puck. Personally I can't wait for VV to get back. He was moving the puck better. WW does a better job now also. He either shoots or moves it.

This doesn't apply to just the PP. It's also very apparent on the breakout, transition and 5on5 situations. The decision making overall is just to slow overall. I sit and watch the guys hitting seams down the slot or backside. Do they NOT see the same guys? Are they so trained, in-grained from TMu on making these passes they just ignore them? The last few games they seem to have gone back to a more N-S game. The first few games with BBF I was seeing more cross ice movement, or bring it back around the weak side. They seem to have gotten away from this again.

Penner being scratched, I am praying he's on a flight out in the next 24-hours. I can't stomach watching him any longer. The guy/gal cutting that paycheck must get queezy and sick to their stomach every time that check is cut. $4M+ for what? At this point I would rather see Westie out there every game, rather than Penner. At least Westie will take the body. That alone is an improvement.

Enough with MR on Kopi's line. It doesn't work. How many more times do we have to seem them bumping into each other? They bump into each other because they both are playing C out there. They are both reading the play the same, instead of one of them looking to setup for a shot. Especially MR, I've seen him numerous times now go in on the puck as if Kopi is even near it. LA needs scoring and stacking these two on one line makes it easy for the opposing team to stack its D. With Gag's out, there is an issue for his LW obviously but this ain't working.

BBF has brought some much needed energy. There has been improvement and the team has taken steps forward away from the tailspin they were in with TMu. At the same time more needs to happen and I still don't think DS will ultimately get them there. Especially with the current setup. If you want Sutter as your coach, then you give me full control within his responsibilities. That includes the asst coaches. Personally the only asst that goes untouched without question is B Ranford. There is no issue with the keepers. Stevens coaching of the D is damn good, but how/what impact is it having on offensive output. As a result he has to be considered as well.

Over on Surly-Scribe's blog I said flat out this will be the "worse decision" in team history. The longer that DL & DS are around and they keep trying to hammer the square peg in the round hole mentality....this team will flounder. My fear is DL will keep 'tinkering' with the parts to the point the roster, prospects and picks are back to 2006 levels.
Well put...

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01-07-2012, 08:45 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Isn't this Dean's fault? Most NHL players come out of the first round and his love for defenseman (Teubert, Hickey, Forbort) and their slow or stagnant progression has killed this team.
Yes, but it's even more than that too. I would like to know why the Manchester guys who have come up after doing good down there weren't ready to produce at this level. Moulson came up when Crawford was the HC, so did Boyle...you'd think those guys would look positive with Crawford's only offensive coaching style, but no. And now we have guys in Manchester who can't even score as well as that group of guys, so what will that mean for them? Dean's sealed his own fate.

Hopefully he doesn't do anything stupid, rides it out and is let go at the end of the season. We don't need him making a bad deal.

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01-07-2012, 08:46 PM
  #161
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"We all know that we haven’t scored many goals, but it’s not like we’re playing bad."

-Jarret Stoll




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01-07-2012, 08:48 PM
  #162
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It was awesome when Fox showed the Kings PP umbrella with 4 skaters outside the circles and Brown by himself in the slot. Easiest PP to defend. No one skates through the middle. No passes through the middle.

29th ranked PK.

0 for 8.

Quick should ask for $8 million.

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01-07-2012, 08:48 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Yes, but it's even more than that too. I would like to know why the Manchester guys who have come up after doing good down there weren't ready to produce at this level. Moulson came up when Crawford was the HC, so did Boyle...you'd think those guys would look positive with Crawford's only offensive coaching style, but no. And now we have guys in Manchester who can't even score as well as that group of guys, so what will that mean for them?
If I am Correct, Morris is asked by Hextall/Dean to run the same system as the Kings.

That way when players are called up, they slot right in knowing at least some of the system.

I remember hearing that coming out of Dean's mouth (his reasoning is it makes it easy for players).

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01-07-2012, 08:48 PM
  #164
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Reading that old free agent thread is pretty pathetic. People getting pissed because Lombardi refuses to do anything and here we are two and a half years later dealing with the same old crap.

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01-07-2012, 08:49 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
It was awesome when Fox showed the Kings PP umbrella with 4 skaters outside the circles and Brown by himself in the slot. Easiest PP to defend. No one skates through the middle. No passes through the middle.

29th ranked PK.

0 for 8.

Quick should ask for $8 million.
Right.

Has this team ever heard of "high scoring area" ? or "Cross seam passing"? or MOVEMENT.

Certainly seems like they haven't.

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01-07-2012, 08:50 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Why is that so hard to believe? I mean players slump. Kopitar does it every year, and he is a very skilled Guy(has done it under Two different coaches now).

Richardson/Lewis/clifford/Fraser/Westy have never been big producers(or even Average). Why did anyone expect them to be all of a sudden ?

I am just seeing what I see, a team that can't score. That has already fired a Coach.
Kopi is 1 one guy.

What I find it hard to believe is that people think that it is one 1 player or another who is slumping when EVERYONE is "slumping". That it is the team or the players when everyone is supposed to be "slumping" is just silly to me.

It is clearly a case of the players doing what they are being told to do and then executing to the best of their abilities. Shooting wide and hitting a goalie dead center is just a signature characteristic of players who are gripping too hard and trying to do things in a manner that they aren't accustomed to doing.

Maybe it is a case of the guys on the point worrying about the manner at which they cycle or how fast they have to be moving laterally in order to be in position to receive a pass and then drop zone in order to stay in the system.

There are a ton of variables but why in the world would so many players go on scoring slumps at the same time? How in the world could an entire team be having their worst offencive records of all time at the same time that team scoring is at its lowest in team history?

It IS the system that is the problem and it to me it just simply ISN'T the players or at least we haven't any way of knowing which if any of the players that it might be.

I do agree that having MR on the same line as Kopi puts all of our eggs in one basket and makes us waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too predictable to play against.

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01-07-2012, 08:50 PM
  #167
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Yes, but it's even more than that too. I would like to know why the Manchester guys who have come up after doing good down there weren't ready to produce at this level. Moulson came up when Crawford was the HC, so did Boyle...you'd think those guys would look positive with Crawford's only offensive coaching style, but no. And now we have guys in Manchester who can't even score as well as that group of guys, so what will that mean for them? Dean's sealed his own fate.

Hopefully he doesn't do anything stupid, rides it out and is let go at the end of the season. We don't need him making a bad deal.
That's the ironic thing. We have all waited years for the "big deal" and I have a feeling something is coming, but it will be something desperate and dumb to try and save his job.

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01-07-2012, 08:52 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
"We all know that we havenít scored many goals, but itís not like weíre playing bad."

-Jarret Stoll



Jarret Stoll should be tied to a chair and be forced to watch these past two games on a loop until he realizes that statement is absolutely idiotic.

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01-07-2012, 08:58 PM
  #169
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Stoll's absolutely right. The kings aren't playing bad. They're not scoring and our pp's been nonexistent, but overall, our play hasn't been bad at all.

I just think some of you guys get into a fanatical mode and need to spew out your drama. Pretty much like when we first heard of Sutter's signing. How many people here over-reacted??? I'm thinking about 90% of the posters went through their drama and then finally calmed down and realized that he's actually not that bad of a choice.

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01-07-2012, 08:58 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Jarret Stoll should be tied to a chair and be forced to watch these past two games on a loop until he realizes that statement is absolutely idiotic.
Stoll is right, as far as the way they play. They are playing the system. It's designed to reduce the chances and goals against. The only change that Sutter has made is increase the Kings possession time. It hasn't increased their scoring chances, just more time with the puck on the perimeter.

Until Sutter can hire his own staff, the Kings will struggle to score.

Even Jim Fox has given up on the offense. He said it is time to realize that "it is what it is". It's not a scoring slump, it is by design. The Kings are playing for 1-0 and 2-1 wins.

Wonder who will replace Dean.

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01-07-2012, 08:59 PM
  #171
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Bingo. No entry level contract producers = can't win anything in a capped era. No scoring forwards developed through Manchester onto the NHL club yet. It stings bad.
which is why DL needs to stop trading picks away. most NHL players are 1st and 2nd round guys. the drop off for guys picked in Rd 3+ is substantial, especially from the 4th +. I was reading an article about it weeks ago, but can't remember where so I can't find it. It was something like a 50-75% decreased chance of ever making a NHL roster if they are drafted in the 3rd round or later.

this also begs another question when it comes to DL's 1st and 2nd round decisions. for starters i still wish LA had the #1 in 2008. with it they would have taken Stamkos and this team would look very different. it likely also could be further along in it's 5-year plan. somehow DL has better success with guys in the late rounds 4+, than with guys from the top 3 rounds. personally i don't understand how a guy that is so detail and stats oriented can miss here. the guys in the top rounds have more eyes and evals done on them, so there is less to 'not know' about them. for w/e reason though DL has been missing Rd 1, 2 and 3 to the detriment of the team today.

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01-07-2012, 09:00 PM
  #172
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Stoll's absolutely right. The kings aren't playing bad. They're not scoring and our pp's been nonexistent, but overall, our play hasn't been bad at all.

I just think some of you guys get into a fanatical mode and need to spew out your drama. Pretty much like when we first heard of Sutter's signing. How many people here over-reacted??? I'm thinking about 90% of the posters went through their drama and then finally calmed down and realized that he's actually not that bad of a choice.
I don't blame Sutter or Terry Murray. I think both of them are very good Coaches. I blame the Guy Hiring them.

The guy that also constructed this Roster. (Dean Lombardi).

But I still have some faith. They can't keep not scoring, Hope and Change baby.

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01-07-2012, 09:02 PM
  #173
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which is why DL needs to stop trading picks away. most NHL players are 1st and 2nd round guys. the drop off for guys picked in Rd 3+ is substantial, especially from the 4th +. I was reading an article about it weeks ago, but can't remember where so I can't find it. It was something like a 50-75% decreased chance of ever making a NHL roster if they are drafted in the 3rd round or later.

this also begs another question when it comes to DL's 1st and 2nd round decisions. for starters i still wish LA had the #1 in 2008. with it they would have taken Stamkos and this team would look very different. it likely also could be further along in it's 5-year plan. somehow DL has better success with guys in the late rounds 4+, than with guys from the top 3 rounds. personally i don't understand how a guy that is so detail and stats oriented can miss here. the guys in the top rounds have more eyes and evals done on them, so there is less to 'not know' about them. for w/e reason though DL has been missing Rd 1, 2 and 3 to the detriment of the team today.
In round Two he has at least picked some roster players. Slava/Simmer/Clifford ETC. But lets face it, f you want a Cup in the cap era. You need to have drafts like Chicago/Boston are having. Lucic/Marchand in same draft type of Drafts.


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01-07-2012, 09:02 PM
  #174
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The Rangers signed Gaborik. It's not like he went to the Panthers or Coyotes. He went to one of the 5 teams or so that pretty much have their choice of free agents. If the Rangers wanted Gaborik, they were going to get Gaborik. If the Kings offered the 5th year, the Rangers would've made an even better offer. The Rangers wanted Gaborik. End of story. It stops there. The Kings cannot outbid the Rangers for a free agent the Rangers want.

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01-07-2012, 09:03 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Stoll is right, as far as the way they play. They are playing the system. It's designed to reduce the chances and goals against. The only change that Sutter has made is increase the Kings possession time. It hasn't increased their scoring chances, just more time with the puck on the perimeter.

Until Sutter can hire his own staff, the Kings will struggle to score.

Even Jim Fox has given up on the offense. He said it is time to realize that "it is what it is". It's not a scoring slump, it is by design. The Kings are playing for 1-0 and 2-1 wins.

Wonder who will replace Dean.
Wondering the same.

About ready to dive into draft research too.

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