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Roy on the (chopping) block

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Old
01-08-2012, 08:25 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
But that contradicts Pegula's three-year plan. We're not going to be able to suck enough to get Yakupov or Grigorenko. And if you want to get into the MacKinnon sweepstakes, we're going to have to trade a lot more than just Derek Roy to suck that badly.
His three year plan might have been based on the mirage that appeared to be the second half of last season.

Knowing that was a total flash in the pan, my question is this: is Pegula too arrogant to (correctly, smartly, intelligently, appropriately) retract the three year plan in order to execute the RIGHT plan, which is to trim heavy fat and work from there - which could easily surpass a three year window? That notion would put us on path to where we need to be: in contention.

If Pegula has the ultimate goal of Cups, he might want to reassess that three year plan…

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01-08-2012, 08:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
But that contradicts Pegula's three-year plan. We're not going to be able to suck enough to get Yakupov or Grigorenko. And if you want to get into the MacKinnon sweepstakes, we're going to have to trade a lot more than just Derek Roy to suck that badly.
They are playing their easiest stretch of games of the season right now, and not doing well at all. Our noobie blue line is having a hard time dealing with all that ice time. I think they have a great shot at a top 5 pick but Miller's going to have to lose a little more confidence to land a top 3. Lottery balls not withstanding. Should be interesting.

Also, I think adding a Nuggent-Hopkins would greatly accelerate that 3-year plan. Think about where the Sabres would be today with him on our team instead of Leino. Probably about 8-12 points higher in the standings despite the collective suck and injuries.

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01-08-2012, 08:45 PM
  #78
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Roy has one bad season after many good ones and now everyone wants to run him out of town.

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01-08-2012, 08:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by skibum View Post
Roy has one bad season after many good ones and now everyone wants to run him out of town.
Wow, that comment makes you look clueless Not saying you are, but it sure LOOKED like it. Think about it.

Roy dislike goes wayyyyy beyond that. It's not about point production. But I am sure you knew this, right?


Last edited by ZZamboni: 01-08-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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01-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #80
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Roy has one bad season after many good ones and now everyone wants to run him out of town.
Dude, they need to get bigger and tougher. Either Ennis or Roy have to go, because you can't have 99% finesse and expect to put up a fight against the leagues Cup contenders.

Roy for Hanzel. Now you got a great 3rd line center locked up, who would not look lost in a scoring line role for a few games at a time due to injuries. Grab a Nuggent-Hopkins to be your #1 center. And let guys like Adam and Tropp fight it out for the other center spots. Maybe Hecht wants to stay around (doubt it, he's still in a 2.5-3.5 price range) he could be a nice contingency plan for a scoring line or a checking line.

The strength of this team is on the wing. Vanek, Pomminville, Kassian, Ennis, Gerbe, Leino, and Stafford. That's seriously SEVEN wingers with 15-35 goal skill. They need centers who are willing to drive hard (and fast) to the net. I'm sick of seeing Roy play perimeter, they already got wingers who can do that. Bring fricken Hanzal in and watch him drop some of the leagues premier centers (the East is stacked with them) with clean hard hits. And watch him move fast to the net and open up passing lanes for the wingers to exploit. Bring in some younger centers and get them programmed to go to the net and back check like demons.

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01-08-2012, 09:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Dude, they need to get bigger and tougher. Either Ennis or Roy have to go, because you can't have 99% finesse and expect to put up a fight against the leagues Cup contenders.

Roy for Hanzel. Now you got a great 3rd line center locked up, who would not look lost in a scoring line role for a few games at a time due to injuries. Grab a Nuggent-Hopkins to be your #1 center. And let guys like Adam and Tropp fight it out for the other center spots. Maybe Hecht wants to stay around (doubt it, he's still in a 2.5-3.5 price range) he could be a nice contingency plan for a scoring line or a checking line.

The strength of this team is on the wing. Vanek, Pomminville, Kassian, Ennis, Gerbe, Leino, and Stafford. That's seriously SEVEN wingers with 15-35 goal skill. They need centers who are willing to drive hard (and fast) to the net. I'm sick of seeing Roy play perimeter, they already got wingers who can do that. Bring fricken Hanzal in and watch him drop some of the leagues premier centers (the East is stacked with them) with clean hard hits. And watch him move fast to the net and open up passing lanes for the wingers to exploit. Bring in some younger centers and get them programmed to go to the net and back check like demons.
I don't know if Hanzel specifically is the answer but I will agree with you that the change in playing style that you've lain out in your last paragraph is a good part of what I'd like instituted.

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01-08-2012, 09:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
I don't know if Hanzel specifically is the answer but I will agree with you that the change in playing style that you've lain out in your last paragraph is a good part of what I'd like instituted.
Hanzal doesn't even know who Sting is, and yet he respects the fact that he's out there doing whatever he does. If he's not the answer then who is?

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01-08-2012, 09:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
But that contradicts Pegula's three-year plan. We're not going to be able to suck enough to get Yakupov or Grigorenko. And if you want to get into the MacKinnon sweepstakes, we're going to have to trade a lot more than just Derek Roy to suck that badly.
3 year plan could become 4-5 year plan. I think people take it too literally from what he said. If you say you want to get to a place by 4 pm and while you're driving a snow storm hits, do you speed anyways, risking a car crash, or do you drive slow in order to reach the destination late but safe.

I make this comparison in this way. If Pegula really says 3-years or bust, and this team is far away from that, and they make haphazard trades of future assets (picks and prospects) for underperforming veterans and make bad signings, continuously overpaying free agents, they will become the Calgary Flames.

If instead Pegula realizes they aren't that close, and need to get rid of the waste, and he comes out at the end of the season or at the deadline, and admits that he was a little too excited and it might take a little linger than originally anticipated, and trades guys like Gaustad, Boyes, Hecht, for picks or prospects and then in the off-season moves Stafford, Miller, Roy and whatever else it takes to give this team a new and improved core of players, and gets a nice pick after this team finally bottoms out (Galchenyuk or Gaunce), then we will be on the path to success, maybe not for the short run, but for the long run.

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01-08-2012, 10:03 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
If they sell, Boyes and Hecht are definitely gone. The only circumstance under which I see Roy being dealt is in a deal for an elite 1C. There's nothing that would indicate to me that they'd trade him just because; he, along with Pominville, are the players Ruff trusts most, misplaced or not.
Zip,
Do you think there's a sellers scenario where they deal Hecht with the intent, or perhaps even pre-arranged understanding/agreement, he re-signs in BUF after the season's over?

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01-08-2012, 11:32 PM
  #85
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I think that we are not so far away being a legit contender.

Yes, I kbow that we play like crap the last few weeks. But hell, what do you expect from a team which has freakin' Jochen Hecht as it's first line center? What to you expect from team which has Lindey "I can't handle Rookies with hig potential"- Ruff as it's choach?

Well, I'm not suprised about the current situation. We have started the season with 3 natural centers (Adam, Gaustad, Roy). One of that trio is a Rookie, the other one is just a 4th liner and the last one is Derek Roy, who is soft as hell and won't drive the net even if his freakin' life depends on it.

What we need - next to the choaching staff chance - is center depth. If u couldn't land guys like Getzlaf, Hodgson, Staal, Couturier, than you have to go for guys like Brassard, Nielsen, Helm, Flips, Hanzal, ..... Overpay if needed.

But you can`t be seriuos if you want to win it all with Jochen Hecht as your first line center. Period

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01-09-2012, 10:44 AM
  #86
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Also don't forget just because he is technically available and the asking price is not an arm and a leg, we might not have the right assets to make the deal.
And so it was with the Thornton deal... Boston got low-priced assets back which allowed them to nab Chara in free agency. It ends up at the end of the day as a lateral move from Thornton to Chara, and a few journeyman assets acquired. The low priced assets, we have in the young forwards and defense, and we already flipped two of the more redundant ones for Regehr. We can bury money salary if need be.

This franchise is pretty much at the crossroads of dumping inexpensive assets for a currently underachieving but marquee guy, versus cutting the cancer out of the core and preparing for the future. Darcy has shown he'd rather keep spackling the cracking walls since 2006 than addressing the crumbled foundation. That approach hasn't gotten it done. It's time to try to move out the overpriced underachievers to clear salary space for the big move in the offseason. That means Roy, Stafford, Gaustad. These are the guys who've proved they can't/won't get it done here. Maybe even Miller if someone gives up the farm.

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01-09-2012, 10:58 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ralonzo View Post
And so it was with the Thornton deal... Boston got low-priced assets back which allowed them to nab Chara in free agency. It ends up at the end of the day as a lateral move from Thornton to Chara, and a few journeyman assets acquired. The low priced assets, we have in the young forwards and defense, and we already flipped two of the more redundant ones for Regehr. We can bury money salary if need be.

This franchise is pretty much at the crossroads of dumping inexpensive assets for a currently underachieving but marquee guy, versus cutting the cancer out of the core and preparing for the future. Darcy has shown he'd rather keep spackling the cracking walls since 2006 than addressing the crumbled foundation. That approach hasn't gotten it done. It's time to try to move out the overpriced underachievers to clear salary space for the big move in the offseason. That means Roy, Stafford, Gaustad. These are the guys who've proved they can't/won't get it done here. Maybe even Miller if someone gives up the farm.
Who's going to be our Chara? I feel that you're implying we'd make some huge splash in UFA after we moved out these assets, but what is that move? Are we going to continue pretending that the truly elite UFAs (usually between 27-30 years old) are going to pick Buffalo, NY over places like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, Vancouver, Washington, and Los Angeles? Especially when Buffalo is a bottom-tier team? (Which we are right now.) Maybe after Parise or Suter signs with the Rags this summer people will finally give up that ghost.

The only way we're getting elite players into this organization is by drafting and developing them, or overpaying for them in a trade. It's not happening via the UFA route, not with progressively weaker UFA classes where the few stars will be the belles of the ball and can pick amongst several cities superior to Buffalo.

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01-09-2012, 04:44 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Hanzal doesn't even know who Sting is, and yet he respects the fact that he's out there doing whatever he does. If he's not the answer then who is?
No, I just meant that I haven't really watched Hanzal's play closely so now I am going to pay more attention and take a closer look.

I really, really like O'Reilly's game but he ain't going anywhere. And I watched Geztlaf last night (Ducks/BJs) and that reconfirmed my earlier sentiments.

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01-09-2012, 04:50 PM
  #89
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No, I just meant that I haven't really watched Hanzal's play closely so now I am going to pay more attention and take a closer look.

I really, really like O'Reilly's game but he ain't going anywhere. And I watched Geztlaf last night (Ducks/BJs) and that reconfirmed my earlier sentiments.
Hanzal is going nowhere. He's arguably Tippett's favorite player, and he matches up with the opponent's top line every night. He's precisely the type of guy we need, but PHX won't be selling him.

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01-09-2012, 05:00 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post

The only way we're getting elite players into this organization is by drafting and developing them, or overpaying for them in a trade. It's not happening via the UFA route, not with progressively weaker UFA classes where the few stars will be the belles of the ball and can pick amongst several cities superior to Buffalo.
Excellent point that reflects today's CBA salary cap UFA management environment. I give credit to Pegula for trying to turn Buffalo into a destination with his locker room construction, willingness to pay for talent, etc..

At one time, players desperately wanted to play for/in Buffalo. Mainly because of the combination of players, coaches and ownership and that we were seen as a destination where there was a strong opportunity to win a Cup.

I also remember a time when no one wanted to play for Detroit. But Holland and ownership changed that.

So keep the faith. We finally have an owner with deep pockets. Step one achieved.

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01-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #91
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Hanzal is going nowhere. He's arguably Tippett's favorite player, and he matches up with the opponent's top line every night. He's precisely the type of guy we need, but PHX won't be selling him.
That's the problem I have with what-if trade threads.... There are so many guys I'd like to have play for Buffalo but it doesn't matter if they aren't available or too expensive.

I can rail on and on about Roy and a couple of others but no one has been able to convince me (and apparently Regier) that there's anyone else we can get that will make us better.

I keep hearing Ducks, Hawks and Wings. Really.....? Seems like we aren't dealing from a position of strength at this point. So how would we get anyone decent from one of those teams w/o gutting our own squad. Seems like it would have to be a deal heavy loaded with prospects (giving and taking).

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01-09-2012, 05:10 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
That's the problem I have with what-if trade threads.... There are so many guys I'd like to have play for Buffalo but it doesn't matter if they aren't available or too expensive.

I can rail on and on about Roy and a couple of others but no one has been able to convince me (and apparently Regier) that there's anyone else we can get that will make us better.

I keep hearing Ducks, Hawks and Wings. Really.....? Seems like we aren't dealing from a position of strength at this point. So how would we get anyone decent from one of those teams w/o gutting our own squad. Seems like it would have to be a deal heavy loaded with prospects (giving and taking).
The reality is that you have to dump the core, for prospects, picks, young players and rebuild.

Continuing to try and win with this core is a waste of time.

blow it up, start over, be REALLY bad for a year or two IF YOU HAVE TO. But just start over already.

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01-09-2012, 05:52 PM
  #93
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The reality is that you have to dump the core, for prospects, picks, young players and rebuild.

Continuing to try and win with this core is a waste of time.

blow it up, start over, be REALLY bad for a year or two IF YOU HAVE TO. But just start over already.
I'm not an advocate of keeping the old Rochester core intact either. They were handed the opportunity to make this work and haven't. Changes are necessary.

I agree that our best option is to accept that a minor rebuild is needed (at a minimum) and let this bust of a team go.

I just don't want us to further validate some's precept that we are the Edmonston-East of the NHL.

I like a lot of the kids we already have in the system and would am dissapointed that certain ones were returned to the AHL.

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01-09-2012, 07:49 PM
  #94
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why not send Roy and a winger to Anaheim for Bobby Ryan? Anaheim's gm basically said he'd move anyone for the right price...that seems like the kind of move that could be pulled off immediately and really give the Sabres a chance to win games this year, rather than looking for prospects and giving up on this season

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01-09-2012, 08:05 PM
  #95
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No, I just meant that I haven't really watched Hanzal's play closely so now I am going to pay more attention and take a closer look.

I really, really like O'Reilly's game but he ain't going anywhere. And I watched Geztlaf last night (Ducks/BJs) and that reconfirmed my earlier sentiments.
Hanzal is just really BIG, but he's fast too. Not bad skills, he's like a bigger faster Goose. Ironically, he had ZERO problems keeping Roy in check earlier this season.

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01-10-2012, 09:44 PM
  #96
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Look at this team light it up without Roy in the lineup.

Jets- 1 goal
Toronto- Shutout...I'm just sayin'

If anything we need more centers not less.

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01-10-2012, 10:01 PM
  #97
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why not send Roy and a winger to Anaheim for Bobby Ryan?
because it's going to cost A LOT more than that?

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01-11-2012, 05:14 AM
  #98
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Someone in the chat last night said that there were people from the Anaheim front office, at the ACC watching the game last night.

It could mean anything, especially given Burke's past with the Ducks. But we are all fairly certain that we were shopping Roy to them earlier...

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01-11-2012, 05:20 AM
  #99
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Someone in the chat last night said that there were people from the Anaheim front office, at the ACC watching the game last night...
Well, then I hope they didn't pay attention to the game. Because a shutout loss is no advertisement for any forward of our roster.

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01-11-2012, 05:21 AM
  #100
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If we keep on losing for the next month, I see no choice but to call this season as a losing one. From there we should attempt to draft a number 1 center, along with trade for one. We are deficient in this category and need to set this team up for a season next year. Fire Ruff, Fire Regier, and Fire our strength and conditioning coach. We need a clean sweep across the management/coaching board. Roy needs to go along with stafford.

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