Setting ourselves up fro dissapointment with the massive expectations heaped on Kreider.
Agreed. Again.
I truly think Kreider will end up as a good 3rd liner. Just don't see him having the "hockey sense/IQ" to be a legitimate top-6 guy. I like what I've (admittedly little) seen of Fasth and Miller better than Kreider. Kreider has all the raw tools, but that seems to be it.
Back on topic...Erixon has been great. If he can add a bit of a physical edge, or a nice helping of Tortsy's Homemade Jam to his game, he could be a huge addition to the blueline.
Hagelin. Current NHLer vs guys we hope and expect to be NHLers. I voted Kreider first, but Hagelin absolutely deserves to be 2 at this point... THEN make your cases for Erixon and the rest
Hagelin. Current NHLer vs guys we hope and expect to be NHLers. I voted Kreider first, but Hagelin absolutely deserves to be 2 at this point... THEN make your cases for Erixon and the rest
this is how i feel... i don't know much about the other guys but i've seen hagelin and feel he's the real deal - as a versatile two-way winger. he probably won't ever score more than 20 in a season and probably won't be a big assist man either, but he can play on any line and will only continue to improve. sort of a nice kelly miller type. that's pretty good.
i'd like to add, though, that i think hagelin, as he's already with the rangers (for good, i'd say), shouldn't be in this poll. but as he is, i'm voting for him at #2.
That's why everyone is "down" on him. Some of us don't see the PPG player in Kreider that other's apparently are. I keep seeing expectations for him are a near PPG, 1st-line W. I see him as a 60-65 point 1st-2nd line tweener with a motor. Nothing terrible, but not a "can't-miss" future perennial NHL All-Star. Guys are expecting him to become the next Corey Perry/Zach Parise 80-point defensive forward, and that's just not reasonable. Erixon looks very much like a future 1st-pair star, and is doing so in the AHL. Kreider is struggling (given his hype) to really distinguish himself in the collegiate ranks.
Kreider is "struggling" to distinguish himself in the collegiate ranks?
After a long stretch of no games he's still 16th in NCAA. He's well over PPG. #1 on high ranked BC.
He's won MVP of several NCAA tournaments.
He's scored big goals while helping to lead his teams to: WJC Gold, WJC Bronze, NCAA Title. Lead both WJC teams in goals.
He was the youngest player for the Mens US WC team two years running.
And despite all this he's "struggling" to distinguish himself? Not really.
Very credible people in the sport openly recognize the talent level. Dave Starman, Pierre Mcguire, a few NHL GM's had been quoted, and Brad Richards to name a few.
Is he going to be a superstar? Who knows. But what he will be is an impact player.
I truly think Kreider will end up as a good 3rd liner. Just don't see him having the "hockey sense/IQ" to be a legitimate top-6 guy. I like what I've (admittedly little) seen of Fasth and Miller better than Kreider. Kreider has all the raw tools, but that seems to be it.
Back on topic...Erixon has been great. If he can add a bit of a physical edge, or a nice helping of Tortsy's Homemade Jam to his game, he could be a huge addition to the blueline.
Sorry but no, he doesn't have poor hockey sense and IQ.
Kreider is "struggling" to distinguish himself in the collegiate ranks?
After a long stretch of no games he's still 16th in NCAA. He's well over PPG. #1 on high ranked BC.
He's won MVP of several NCAA tournaments.
He's scored big goals while helping to lead his teams to: WJC Gold, WJC Bronze, NCAA Title. Lead both WJC teams in goals.
He was the youngest player for the Mens US WC team two years running.
And despite all this he's "struggling" to distinguish himself? Not really.
Very credible people in the sport openly recognize the talent level. Dave Starman, Pierre Mcguire, a few NHL GM's had been quoted, and Brad Richards to name a few.
Is he going to be a superstar? Who knows. But what he will be is an impact player.
Pretty much this. Kreider will probably be a top line forward for us. 65 points is first line quality
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every time I see Erixon against NHL calibre opponents, he looks overmatched.
He seems soft on the puck and easily outmuscled.
Hoping this season and maybe half of next season in the AHL helps him out.
As for top pairing? I think that is pretty far fetched
I agree with you that to this point Erixon has shown me no indications of being a top-pairing guy in his limited time in the NHL this year. Not saying he should be stepping right in but I would expect a flash or two.
As MDZ has shown, patience is key with young D. He can get there for sure but it may take a bit.
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Bourque should not even be in our top 20 with his injury history and horrible play. He will likely be retired within 2-3 years.
I didn't think he was that bad in camp.
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I feel like this is such an appropriate quote for these boards...
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"-Mark Twain
Bourque should not even be in our top 20 with his injury history and horrible play. He will likely be retired within 2-3 years.
Really? Injury proneness is a reason to drop him on the poll? Did you have Sauer around 20-30 also when he was in juniors and injured all the time?
Yes is obviously been tougher for him to adjust to the AHL, not every player is going to make the jump from juniors to the AHL and put up a point per game. He still has more skill then anyone past the top 10 on our list. And he's the furthest thing from a lazy player on the ice.
He will be locked in before 20, as much resistance as you put up with that.
every time I see Erixon against NHL calibre opponents, he looks overmatched.
He seems soft on the puck and easily outmuscled.
Hoping this season and maybe half of next season in the AHL helps him out.
As for top pairing? I think that is pretty far fetched
Erixon looked better the second call up but I agree his strength and compete level need some tweaking. He's not far away. Like you I like Miller better. Miller is very strong for his size and age. Like another Dubinsky.
Sorry but no, he doesn't have poor hockey sense and IQ.
Ok, SupersonicMonkey says he does indeed have it, so all my concerns are thrown out the window.
Sorry, but no, I do not see him having that sense, or enough of it for so many Ranger fans to be so hyped about him. Not much of a playmaker or play-reader at all.
Hagelin. Current NHLer vs guys we hope and expect to be NHLers. I voted Kreider first, but Hagelin absolutely deserves to be 2 at this point... THEN make your cases for Erixon and the rest
This^. Had Hagelin not proved himself, I'd have gone with Erixon, who is doing reasonably well in spotty up and down duty with the big club. But let's face it, Hagelin is pulling a McDonagh and fits like a hand in glove.
As to order:
1 Kreider
2 Hagelin
3 Miller (based on higher potential, but this is a subjective guess)
4 Erixon,
5 Thomas
6 Fasth (add)
7 McIlrath
8 gotta consider everyone else left, but leaning toward St. Croix
Ok, SupersonicMonkey says he does indeed have it, so all my concerns are thrown out the window.
Sorry, but no, I do not see him having that sense, or enough of it for so many Ranger fans to be so hyped about him. Not much of a playmaker or play-reader at all.
Ill take the word of professionals.
Kreider is an intelligent kid. He's a reactionary player. But, you're wrong because he does read plays. Maybe its the fan with no hockey sense? Possible. Because I've seen Kreider read plays and step up in the neutral zone many times, as well as at his own blueline on penalty kills. Things like that don't appear in box scores, so, its understandable why one would assume it doesn't happen. Same thing with people stat surfing to try and make a justified argument why McIlrath is garbage. Its baseless crap.
NO player, not on the NHL roster or prospect pool is anywhere close to Kreider's physical ability.
A kid like Stepan HAS to depend on his brain, because his physical tools pale in comparison.
Kreider is an intelligent kid. He's a reactionary player. But, you're wrong because he does read plays. Maybe its the fan with no hockey sense? Possible. Because I've seen Kreider read plays and step up in the neutral zone many times, as well as at his own blueline on penalty kills. Things like that don't appear in box scores, so, its understandable why one would assume it doesn't happen. Same thing with people stat surfing to try and make a justified argument why McIlrath is garbage. Its baseless crap.
NO player, not on the NHL roster or prospect pool is anywhere close to Kreider's physical ability.
A kid like Stepan HAS to depend on his brain, because his physical tools pale in comparison.
Good one.
And quit pretending as if you're writing to someone who hasn't watched him play before. So to sit here and say I'm just reading box scores is a bit assumptive. And it's really tiring to have some posters think their opinion is the end-all, be-all. We have differing opinions. IMO, he will not fit into an NHL top-6. I see him as a great 3rd-liner, decent/streaky 2nd-liner.
Also I take the player with the brains over the player with the physical ability every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
