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Unofficial Trade Rumor/Proposal Thread Part XIII

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Old
01-08-2012, 01:11 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am not a huge fan of this idea. I think we need better passing and puck moving on the back end. Who in our system looks like a potential 40p+ D? Ellerby certainly wouldn't be the answer.
Honestly, if we did a deal like this and signed a guy like Liles to something around 2 years, 10 million (slight overpayment, but then he might come), resign Potter for ~2 years, 3-3.5 million, and our defense next year was

Whitney - Liles
Smid - Gilbert
Ellerby - Petry
Potter

Don't you think that's a solid enough group of dmen? If Whitney can't play, you bump Smid and Gilbert up and play Liles and Potter together

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01-08-2012, 01:13 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am not a huge fan of this idea. I think we need better passing and puck moving on the back end. Who in our system looks like a potential 40p+ D? Ellerby certainly wouldn't be the answer.
I think if we can build a group of good defensive dman we can probably find and offensive one through trade or free agency, not that I'd want him but MAB puts up points, we could also go the Carolina 2006 route of big stay at home solid D

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01-08-2012, 01:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Quinteoilers View Post
Do you think the Rangers would trade Dylan McIlrath for Hemsky? McIlrath is a few years off according to the prospect bio, but it says he is big and mean. Anybody seen him play is a player or another Plante?
I haven't seen him play but the guy is said to be tough as nails.

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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am not a huge fan of this idea. I think we need better passing and puck moving on the back end. Who in our system looks like a potential 40p+ D? Ellerby certainly wouldn't be the answer.
While I agree with this, IMO the biggest sticking point for me is the 2nd rounder. IMO that needs to be a 1st. If we can get a solid defender that can step in now and be a long term fixture here and a 1st, I'd be pretty happy. As for a 40 point D, I still think that Petry could be that guy.

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Would he ever be. A young, poised defenseman that would allow Petry to play to his strengths. I can just imagine. Time for Tambo to get this deal done
IMO the 2nd needs to be upgraded to a 1st. Unless this is far and away the best deal out there I'd hold out for a 1st.

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01-08-2012, 01:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 240SX93 View Post
If things were to work out perfectly, teubert,ellerby, klefbom,smid, Gilbert, Whitney(if healthy), would look pretty good if the young guys developed into good defensemen with a bit of offense.
TBH, I think its safe to take Whitney off the roster list, now and future

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01-08-2012, 01:39 PM
  #30
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2006 Carolina D roster

Glen Wesley- 37 yrs old, 6-1 207
8pts
Mike Commadore- 26 yrs old 6-4 233. 13pts

Niclas Wallin- 30 yrs old 6-3 220
8 pts
Aaron Ward- 33 yrs old 6-2 209
25 pts
Bret Hedican- 35 yrs old 6-2 210
27 pts
Frantisek Kaberle- 32 yrs old 6-0
190 44pts

Oleg Tverdovsky- 29 Yrs old 6-1 211 23pts


These were their main dman for the year.

As a group they scored a total of 29 goals between them.

They were also a combined +44.
Only Tverdovsky was a minus player... A -1 at that

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01-08-2012, 01:40 PM
  #31
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To be honest I'd rather not do something around Ellerby and Hemsky.

Like I said, from Florida, I'd want something with Petrovic and/or a guy like Corban Knight.

I'm not convinced Ellerby has higher potential than a guy like Peckham. Which doesn't help us.

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01-08-2012, 01:41 PM
  #32
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I get the feeling that Whitney will get back and play just well enough to be moved at the deadline. The emergence of Smid and Gilbert as a pairing makes this possible, imo.

I would still be willing to see the Oilers toss some decent money at Johnny Boychuk this summer. Something like 3yrs $9M, have him play with Petry.

Then maybe re-sign Sutton for a year on the cheap, and then see what you have with developing players in the 5 and 6 spots. So, the team could look like this.


Smid - Gilbert
Petry - Boychuk
Sutton - Potter
Peckham


Edit: I forgot about Potter, give him the Ryan Jones special, the 2yr deal.


Last edited by Jimmi Jenkins: 01-08-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
01-08-2012, 01:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Honestly, if we did a deal like this and signed a guy like Liles to something around 2 years, 10 million (slight overpayment, but then he might come), resign Potter for ~2 years, 3-3.5 million, and our defense next year was

Whitney - Liles
Smid - Gilbert
Ellerby - Petry
Potter

Don't you think that's a solid enough group of dmen? If Whitney can't play, you bump Smid and Gilbert up and play Liles and Potter together
We don't have the best luck at signing prominent or even decent FAs. And especially given what was paid to some d-men last summer, you'll forgive me if I don't see FA as a real solution to our D problem.

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Originally Posted by 240SX93 View Post
I think if we can build a group of good defensive dman we can probably find and offensive one through trade or free agency, not that I'd want him but MAB puts up points, we could also go the Carolina 2006 route of big stay at home solid D
See above

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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
While I agree with this, IMO the biggest sticking point for me is the 2nd rounder. IMO that needs to be a 1st. If we can get a solid defender that can step in now and be a long term fixture here and a 1st, I'd be pretty happy. As for a 40 point D, I still think that Petry could be that guy.
Agreed. That makes the deal that much worse. But beyond getting screwed on the pick, I'd far prefer to target Nashville and Ellis or Carolina and Murphy or McBain. We have lots of big low offense guys like Musil, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Teubert, etc. but no offensive PP QB. And yeah Petry could turn into that guy, but I'm not as sold on him doing it as I once was. A plan B would be nice.

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Old
01-08-2012, 01:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
To be honest I'd rather not do something around Ellerby and Hemsky.

Like I said, from Florida, I'd want something with Petrovic and/or a guy like Corban Knight.

I'm not convinced Ellerby has higher potential than a guy like Peckham. Which doesn't help us.
I'd love Petrovic too, but my dream out of FLA is Bjugstad, big, fast center.

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01-08-2012, 01:45 PM
  #35
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Apparently this guy is the source of the rumour, never heard of him before.

*************************************

Hemsky rumours have turned up again, Tallon is believed to have offered Ellerby and a 2nd for Hemsky...will look father into it

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01-08-2012, 01:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NoLocus View Post
Apparently this guy is the source of the rumour, never heard of him before.

*************************************

Hemsky rumours have turned up again, Tallon is believed to have offered Ellerby and a 2nd for Hemsky...will look father into it
lol Looks like he's reading HF, and toss in a pick for "spice"

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Old
01-08-2012, 01:48 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by NoLocus View Post
Apparently this guy is the source of the rumour, never heard of him before.

*************************************

Hemsky rumours have turned up again, Tallon is believed to have offered Ellerby and a 2nd for Hemsky...will look father into it
Thx for finding this. Brief scan of the twitter account screams Ek wannabe to me. I'm comfortable completely disregarding this "rumour"

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Old
01-08-2012, 01:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
To be honest I'd rather not do something around Ellerby and Hemsky.

Like I said, from Florida, I'd want something with Petrovic and/or a guy like Corban Knight.

I'm not convinced Ellerby has higher potential than a guy like Peckham. Which doesn't help us.
But if he's a better skater and stronger than Peckham is that really a bad thing? Upgrading is never a bad thing IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
I get the feeling that Whitney will get back and play just well enough to be moved at the deadline. The emergence of Smid and Gilbert as a pairing makes this possible, imo.

I would still be willing to see the Oilers toss some decent money at Johnny Boychuk this summer. Something like 3yrs $9M, have him play with Petry.

Then maybe re-sign Sutton for a year on the cheap, and then see what you have with developing players in the 5 and 6 spots. So, the team could look like this.


Smid - Gilbert
Petry - Boychuk
Sutton - Potter
Peckham


Edit: I forgot about Potter, give him the Ryan Jones special, the 2yr deal.
I doubt that Whitney will return to form by the deadline, if we move him it would likely be next deadline.

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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Agreed. That makes the deal that much worse. But beyond getting screwed on the pick, I'd far prefer to target Nashville and Ellis or Carolina and Murphy or McBain. We have lots of big low offense guys like Musil, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Teubert, etc. but no offensive PP QB. And yeah Petry could turn into that guy, but I'm not as sold on him doing it as I once was. A plan B would be nice.
Ellis could be a possibility I suppose, I do agree that Ellerby sounds to be cut from a similar cloth as some of our other D, however IMO you always look to upgrade. Adding him could allow guys like Musil and Klefbom more time to develop and maybe give Petry a steady partner to help grow his game. I really think that we will see good things from Petry, that said I agree that it wouldn't hurt to have another guy just in case.

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Old
01-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
If you could do the same for Ellerby, I'd appreciate it.

Ales Hemsky:

The good:

- Great skater
- Hands are some of the best in the league
- If given the chance, can take over a game.
- Great vision for passing
- Worked his ass off to become a average defensive player

The bad:

- After 2 season ending shoulder surgeries, he doesn't really go into dirty areas as much
- We've tried to find him the perfect playing mate unsuccessfully for the past 4-5 years. He really doesn't have consistent chemistry with anyone apart from one Shawn Horcoff.- Sometimes makes poor plays which question his Hockey IQ
- Injury prone


His recent form might be human nature playing for this team rather a reflection of his abilities. The has, before this season, given everything for this team. He went into dirty areas, got obliterated and got straight back up. This team sucking for another year has probably left him sick of losing.
A fair assesment.
I agree in part with the highlighted part. In Hemsky's carreer in E Town he was barely, apart from Samsonov that played only in 2006, really given an elite ceterman or Left winger to play with. He was basically trying to be CREATIVE on his own, because he was teamed up with plugs, including Horcoff, except for a breif stint.

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01-08-2012, 02:05 PM
  #40
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It really depends on what is added with Ellerby.

If we were able to get Ellerby and upgrade our pick from 31 to the 13-16 range, then maybe it starts to look a little bit better.

The kid was obviously highly touted coming into the draft, but has progressed slower than the Panthers had hoped. That being said, d-men take a while so it will come down to what our pro scouts and Stu think of his game and progression.

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01-08-2012, 02:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Ellis could be a possibility I suppose, I do agree that Ellerby sounds to be cut from a similar cloth as some of our other D, however IMO you always look to upgrade. Adding him could allow guys like Musil and Klefbom more time to develop and maybe give Petry a steady partner to help grow his game. I really think that we will see good things from Petry, that said I agree that it wouldn't hurt to have another guy just in case.
Ahh I guess that is where we differ. I'm not sure I see much more upside in Ellerby than I see in say Tuebert, Klefbom, or Marincin.

I still like Petry and think he's really stepped up his play recently when he rediscovered his physical side. Now if he could only do the same with his offense. But it's always good to plan for contingencies, and Petry is really the only guy we have even close to being described as a somewhat promising, developing puck mover. So if we're moving a solid asset like Hemsky for D help I think a puck mover would be a bigger need than a stay at home or a two-way guy. Jmo

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01-08-2012, 02:15 PM
  #42
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maybe Hemsky to Anaheim...could join Sellane and Koivu to form an awesome Finnish line...perhaps a 2nd round pick and a prospect in return

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01-08-2012, 02:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Ahh I guess that is where we differ. I'm not sure I see much more upside in Ellerby than I see in say Tuebert, Klefbom, or Marincin.

I still like Petry and think he's really stepped up his play recently when he rediscovered his physical side. Now if he could only do the same with his offense. But it's always good to plan for contingencies, and Petry is really the only guy we have even close to being described as a somewhat promising, developing puck mover. So if we're moving a solid asset like Hemsky for D help I think a puck mover would be a bigger need than a stay at home or a two-way guy. Jmo
I'm thinking that he could be an upgrade on Teubert and Peckham. Klefbom IMO should end up being the better player. I also believe that you underrate Klefbom's ability to move the puck.

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maybe Hemsky to Anaheim...could join Sellane and Koivu to form an awesome Finnish line...perhaps a 2nd round pick and a prospect in return
Only one problem. Hemsky isn't Finnish......

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01-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #44
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I'm thinking that he could be an upgrade on Teubert and Peckham. Klefbom IMO should end up being the better player. I also believe that you underrate Klefbom's ability to move the puck.



Only one problem. Hemsky isn't Finnish......
sorry my bad lol...well if he got to play with those 2 he could pretend he was

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01-08-2012, 02:32 PM
  #45
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Agreed. That makes the deal that much worse. But beyond getting screwed on the pick, I'd far prefer to target Nashville and Ellis or Carolina and Murphy or McBain. We have lots of big low offense guys like Musil, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Teubert, etc. but no offensive PP QB. And yeah Petry could turn into that guy, but I'm not as sold on him doing it as I once was. A plan B would be nice.
Agreed completely. I don't like the idea of an Ellerby-Hemsky swap one bit, we have tons of Ellerbys in the system and i don't want to trade an asset as valuable as Hemsky can be despite his declining value for a prospect/player like Ellerby.

I really wanted a guy like Josi from Nashville but it appears that they are really high on him and the same with McBain but i'm not sure that Carolina moves him since he has been putting up some good numbers this year. Also, it makes no sense for Carolina to trade a solid young defenseman for Hemsky since they aren't contending for anything anytime soon.

I would say that Ellis is attainable and even though i'm not a fan of his lack of high end skating ability, he can turn out to be a hell of a PP QB and general puckmover at the NHL level if he pans out and we need that more than another shutdown type of defender.

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01-08-2012, 03:04 PM
  #46
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I'm thinking that he could be an upgrade on Teubert and Peckham. Klefbom IMO should end up being the better player. I also believe that you underrate Klefbom's ability to move the puck.
Perhaps I am. He does have a great tool kit, but so far he hasn't put it together and show the numbers. I still see a future for him, but he could easily top out at a 20-30pp season type guy. Not saying he will for sure, but I do think that is more likely than him becoming a 40-50p guy. Prove me wrong Oscar, prove me wrong.

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Agreed completely. I don't like the idea of an Ellerby-Hemsky swap one bit, we have tons of Ellerbys in the system and i don't want to trade an asset as valuable as Hemsky can be despite his declining value for a prospect/player like Ellerby.

I really wanted a guy like Josi from Nashville but it appears that they are really high on him and the same with McBain but i'm not sure that Carolina moves him since he has been putting up some good numbers this year. Also, it makes no sense for Carolina to trade a solid young defenseman for Hemsky since they aren't contending for anything anytime soon.

I would say that Ellis is attainable and even though i'm not a fan of his lack of high end skating ability, he can turn out to be a hell of a PP QB and general puckmover at the NHL level if he pans out and we need that more than another shutdown type of defender.
I agree with your assessments of the players and the team's situations.

In terms of other guys that might be targets from teams looking for offense. Maybe Voynov from LA or Rundblad from PHX? Maybe if we add a lot we could pry Kulikov from FLA? Pretty sure the last one is just a fantasy though.

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Old
01-08-2012, 03:06 PM
  #47
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Perhaps I am. He does have a great tool kit, but so far he hasn't put it together and show the numbers. I still see a future for him, but he could easily top out at a 20-30pp season type guy. Not saying he will for sure, but I do think that is more likely than him becoming a 40-50p guy. Prove me wrong Oscar, prove me wrong.



I agree with your assessments of the players and the team's situations.

In terms of other guys that might be targets from teams looking for offense. Maybe Voynov from LA or Rundblad from PHX? Maybe if we add a lot we could pry Kulikov from FLA? Pretty sure the last one is just a fantasy though.
Now you're cooking with gas. Kulikov is a pipe dream, however the other two are definitely guys that I'd target.

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01-08-2012, 03:25 PM
  #48
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To be honest I'd rather not do something around Ellerby and Hemsky.

Like I said, from Florida, I'd want something with Petrovic and/or a guy like Corban Knight.

I'm not convinced Ellerby has higher potential than a guy like Peckham. Which doesn't help us.
I've seen you bring up Corban Knight a couple times now. Any reason?

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01-08-2012, 03:28 PM
  #49
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Perhaps I am. He does have a great tool kit, but so far he hasn't put it together and show the numbers. I still see a future for him, but he could easily top out at a 20-30pp season type guy. Not saying he will for sure, but I do think that is more likely than him becoming a 40-50p guy. Prove me wrong Oscar, prove me wrong.



I agree with your assessments of the players and the team's situations.

In terms of other guys that might be targets from teams looking for offense. Maybe Voynov from LA or Rundblad from PHX? Maybe if we add a lot we could pry Kulikov from FLA? Pretty sure the last one is just a fantasy though.
I would love Voynov but i doubt that L.A. parts with him, he has been very good for them. I'm not a big fan of Rundblad, he is beyond bad defensively although he's still very young and Kulikov is a complete pipedream unless we offer one of the big three and even then, i'm not sure that Florida would bite.

It's funny because we would have laughed at the idea of getting only Voynov, Ellis or Rundblad for Hemsky a year ago. There were a bunch of posters here who didn't want to trade Hemsky for Schenn straight up, oh my how things have changed. This is an example of Tambellini's patience hurting the team.

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01-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #50
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But if he's a better skater and stronger than Peckham is that really a bad thing? Upgrading is never a bad thing IMO.
The problem is, how much of an upgrade is it?

I just don't see him better than a #4 at best. Is that really the centerpiece you want coming back for our best trading chip?

If we're trading Hemsky, I'd rather get someone who has the potential to be better. Ellerby's skillset is limited, and his development hasn't gone to plan.

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