IIHF World ChampionshipDiscuss International Tournaments like the WJC, Olympics, and World Cup, as they take place, or discuss past tournaments. performances.
“It’s the European illness,” said the International Ice Hockey Federation president as amused Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson chimed in with, “I like that question.”
“It’s a culture question,” Fasel continued. “You know football — soccer — is big, and (injuries are a) part of the game.”
Does it embarrass him as much as it bothers Canadian fans who booed most European players for their theatrics?
“What can we do?” Fasel asked.
“The football federation is trying to correct it. We in our sport should also do so.”
Indeed, they should. Different from the type of diving the NHL has cracked down on to draw penalties, many European players writhe on the ice as if seriously injured following harmless contact, a la soccer.
It's the same thing I noticed when playing against Sweden but through my BlueN'White glasses I really didn't notice Finland doing it (well might have been one or two occasions). I can't call if Russians or Czechs (the only game I didn't watch vs. Finland) dove in their games because I only watched Finland's games but is the reason behind it bigger rinks and nonphysicality of European leagues? That saying Finland is the one of the most if not most physical league around Europe.
I think it might very well be true. Tbh even I'm not sure what I think about it. it's quite common opinion that diving is more mistake of the ref than of a player. The player is only taking opportunity that is given to him. The ref isn't doing his work properly during that moment. Of course not every European says this, but many do IMO.
For example example in very important soccer game last year of Czech Republic agaisnt Scotland, the Czech player dove to get a penalty and it worked. It's not right for sure, but I didn't mind it at the end of the day. I was jsut thinking what I wrote above - the ref did the mistake.
I think it might very well be true. Tbh even I'm not sure what I think about it. it's quite common opinion that diving is more mistake of the ref than of a player. The player is only taking opportunity that is given to him. The ref isn't doing his work properly during that moment. Of course not every European says this, but many do IMO.
For example example in very important soccer game last year of Czech Republic agaisnt Scotland, the Czech player dove to get a penalty and it worked. It's not right for sure, but I didn't mind it at the end of the day. I was jsut thinking what I wrote above - the ref did the mistake.
In my opinion a large portion of the calls in football are more or less dives. That's why the refs are allowed to decide for themselves when it comes to the magic 16.5. I used to play junior football at the national level and up until 14-15 years the rules were same for the normal & penalty offense.. You can probably imagine the "culture shock" when suddenly you don't get a penalty shot for a clear violation.
I can see it being true. Europe has this kind of culture thanks to football. Football doesn't have protective gear other than the leg(don't know what the part is in English) and when someone comes at you with full force it VERY easily has the potential to ruin your life...
I haven't noticed it being a problem in Finnish hockey or in SM-liiga. There are few players who have a reputation for diving, but that's about it.
I'm not a huge fan of the term "European". There are so many different countries, peoples and cultures etc. in Europe that it seems silly to put us all in the same basket. "Europeans" is such a broad term.
And BTW, Northern Europeans don't dive... it's the Southern Europeans and Slavs.
I haven't noticed it being a problem in Finnish hockey or in SM-liiga. There are few players who have a reputation for diving, but that's about it.
I'm not a huge fan of the term "European". There are so many different countries, nations and cultures etc. in Europe that it seems silly to put us all in the same basket.
Tru dat. When it comes to SM it's mostly the Czechs and Slovaks.
Wow, what a bunch of crock. Embarrassing statements by both Nicholson and Fasel. I didn't see anyone really faking an injury except for that one Russian player in the semi-final. One European player did it, according to the article, Canadians "booed most European players for their theatrics." Just ridiculous.
"Injuries are part of the game" says Fasel. Well, yeah? What does that have to do with this?
There's no problem in the Swedish league, at least. Actually, believe it or not, the domestic football league doesn't have a problem with it either. There's more embellishment in the NHL to be honest. And even if it's spread out, some of the more known embellishers are in fact Canadians. For every European diver, I can name a North American. Carcillo, Avery, Ribeiro etc. In other words, a load of crap.
It's the same thing I noticed when playing against Sweden but through my BlueN'White glasses I really didn't notice Finland doing it (well might have been one or two occasions). I can't call if Russians or Czechs (the only game I didn't watch vs. Finland) dove in their games because I only watched Finland's games but is the reason behind it bigger rinks and nonphysicality of European leagues? That saying Finland is the one of the most if not most physical league around Europe.
Discuss.
Not only goal scoring but we suck at diving as well...
Personally I agree, diving is a problem in Europe but the problem in soccer is at least 10 times bigger than in hockey.
Regarding diving in hockey, we need an attitude change and much tougher referees.
Diving has to be considered extremely unsportsmanslike and not tactical.
One problem in hockey is that it's such a huge advantage with PP.
Some also has to do with the big difference between North American hockey and European hockey. The difference is smaller now than before but it's still a big difference.
North American still is a lot more physical and sometimes when these two styles meet it looks a bit weird, almost like two different sports with different rules. Some European players may actually be a little bit shocked, they are simply not used to it. A Canadian fan would scream "diving" immediately but it's not that easy.
This game from 1972, Canada vs Sweden is a bit comical. Two totally different styles colliding and Canada roughing it up... I guess for the Swedes it must have felt like playing a bunch of bad guys just released from prison or something. I'm not sure I would call the reaction from the Swedes diving though, they were in shock? An awful lot of high sticking in the game. Börje Salming and Hedberg (both playing) later showed that Europeans could adjust to Canadian style of hockey though, for sure!
"Salming, like most of Europe, was shocked at how violent the Canadians were.
"The only facet of the game in which we were clearly overmatched was the bodychecking, whacking, and tackling."
"The rough play was new to us. According to Swedish rules, violent tactics drew penalties. but the referees looked away and we were unprepared to handle it on our own. Before the second game, our coach, Kjell Svensson, ordered us to abandon our passive ways and play an eye for an eye style."
The Salming brothers were quite endeared to the physical game, and made an impression in the games.
However it wasn't in these games that Leafs scout Gerry McNamara noticed Salming. It wasn't until approximately Christmas time 1972 that that happened. A Canadian amateur team, the Barrie Flyers, was touring Sweden, and McNamara made the trip to scout the Swedish team and specifically goalie Curt Larsson.
The Barrie Flyers continued the slashing and hacking tactics, this time the Salming brothers had a better understanding of Canadian hockey thanks to the Team Canada '72 initiation back in September. The Salmings refused to back down and instead returned everything they got. Borje was so exuberant he actually flattened the referee and was kicked out of the game."
Last edited by 21: 01-10-2012 at 02:43 AM.
Reason: spelling issues ;-)
Yeah, well, Bob Nicholson hails from a country that still thinks Bobby Clarke did nothing wrong by two-hand chopping Valeri Kharlamov across the ankle in the 1972 Summit Series. In fact, they think he's a hero for it.
When things don't go the Europeans' way, they start diving. When things don't go the North Americans' way, they start "gooning." Until we're squeaky-clean in the sportsmanship department, we have no right to complain about Eurodiving.
I don't want to categorize ALL europeans. Russia for me is the worst. They have a tremendous skill set and play well together and it can be sometimes mesmerizing. You feel like hey I can handle these guys they're skilled their good then bam they start laying on the ice all over the time except for a few. ovie, kasperitis, volchenkov. and the czechs and slovaks and belarussians they all love to dive as well. the fins and the swedes they have adapted to the physical style of play i dont really have an issue with them. Those two countries play fair and hard.
Yes, Europeans are horrible with their diving. They should take a page out of North Americans' book where diving is taken to an art form. If a European slips and falls once, he gets booed for diving; when a Canadian dives 10,000 times, he gets his number 99 retired.
I wouldn't label an entire Europe to be pro-diving. Finns hate it and I doubt Swedes, Norwegians or Danes like it any better.
I don't want to express an opinion for all Europe as well but i do not think that the Swiss are pro-divers !
maybe my red-with crossed glasses somehow deform my vision.
In the Swiss championship, some teams, depending on the coaches actually, would tend to be more "divers"than others but on an international level ... i never saw that.
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By the way, i do not consider diving as a problem in hockey. For soccer it is a seriuos problem, all simulation, all hidden faluts .... . But i do not see hockey spoiled because of that.
