If people are wanting a top flight defenseman, then this is the draft to take one. As many as 17 defensemen could be taken in the first round in this year's draft and all of them have top pairing capability.
In terms of changing the culture of the defense, very simple, wait until the off season. If the Flyers let Carle walk, move Meszaros and if Pronger isn't cleared to ever play again, there's three guys out there that can probably be had - John Michael Liles, Dennis Wideman and Tim Gleason. Gleason pairs with Timonen, Liles pairs with Coburn and Wideman pairs with Gustafsson or Bourdon. You know what, that's not a bad looking defense at all from top to bottom.
and depending on who the Flyers draft (fingers are crossed for Matt Finn of Guelph), that's a potentially fine way to go for the next few years. Yes, there's the opportunity to sign a guy like Suter, but he's going to want between 6.5 and 7 million a year. He's not a 6.5 to 7 million a year defenseman. That's reserved for guys like Chara or Lidstrom or Weber or Doughty. Suter just isn't at that level.
If people are wanting a top flight defenseman, then this is the draft to take one. As many as 17 defensemen could be taken in the first round in this year's draft and all of them have top pairing capability.
In terms of changing the culture of the defense, very simple, wait until the off season. If the Flyers let Carle walk, move Meszaros and if Pronger isn't cleared to ever play again, there's three guys out there that can probably be had - John Michael Liles, Dennis Wideman and Tim Gleason. Gleason pairs with Timonen, Liles pairs with Coburn and Wideman pairs with Gustafsson or Bourdon. You know what, that's not a bad looking defense at all from top to bottom.
and depending on who the Flyers draft (fingers are crossed for Matt Finn of Guelph), that's a potentially fine way to go for the next few years. Yes, there's the opportunity to sign a guy like Suter, but he's going to want between 6.5 and 7 million a year. He's not a 6.5 to 7 million a year defenseman. That's reserved for guys like Chara or Lidstrom or Weber or Doughty. Suter just isn't at that level.
Eh, Honestly I disagree. I think without another true #1 going into next season (if Pronger isnt coming back) that defense is going to get destroyed. I like Wideman, but Gleason is alright (not a top pairing guy) and Liles is what he is, good in offensive zone but way to many breakdowns defensively. I think Suter is near top 10, but thats just me.
EDIT: I think adding guys like Liles, Gleason, and Wideman is pretty much adding players on the same level as Carle, Meszaros and Coburn. Top 4 guys who will never be #1s (and are mostly partner dependent).
If people are wanting a top flight defenseman, then this is the draft to take one. As many as 17 defensemen could be taken in the first round in this year's draft and all of them have top pairing capability.
In terms of changing the culture of the defense, very simple, wait until the off season. If the Flyers let Carle walk, move Meszaros and if Pronger isn't cleared to ever play again, there's three guys out there that can probably be had - John Michael Liles, Dennis Wideman and Tim Gleason. Gleason pairs with Timonen, Liles pairs with Coburn and Wideman pairs with Gustafsson or Bourdon. You know what, that's not a bad looking defense at all from top to bottom.
and depending on who the Flyers draft (fingers are crossed for Matt Finn of Guelph), that's a potentially fine way to go for the next few years. Yes, there's the opportunity to sign a guy like Suter, but he's going to want between 6.5 and 7 million a year. He's not a 6.5 to 7 million a year defenseman. That's reserved for guys like Chara or Lidstrom or Weber or Doughty. Suter just isn't at that level.
and outside of Timonen we have no one as good as Suter.
Gleason is a nice middle pairing defenseman. Thats all he has been. nothing special.
the 2012 draft is loaded in defensive prospects. key word prospects. look at Thomas Hickey. #4 overall in 2007. He doesnt even look like a AHL defenseman right now. i am not saying we shouldnt draft a defenseman. We should, but to think we should trade for a middle pairing guy like Gleason or Wideman and draft a defenseman who we hope is a top pairing guy is a great plan then that would be a mistake.
We will probably have to overpay for a guy like Suter. Thats how the market is in todays game.
Timonen is likely to retire after the 12/13 season. We will need to have someone in place before next season IMO. Coburn/Mez as a top pairing doesnt exactly strike fear in anyone. not now, not after next season.
We'd be without Jagr most likely. Hopefully there'll be a cap raise, I don't know if there's been any rumours yet on where it might land (without a new CBA yet, I can't imagine anyone would know though). There were some talk about it going up pretty significantly thanks to the new TV deal though, I believe. Is this at all possible?
Edit: Forgot about being able to use the bonus cushion... that makes it being able to give a more reasonable contract assumption to Suter...
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.400m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.875m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.850m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,743,373; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,111,627
Obviously it requires signing Suter to a long contract. Shelley is also waived, just to drive home the point that this is all just a fantasy.
The problem with our d-core, especially in Prongers absence, is that none of our defensemen are good shut down guys, and none of them are good offensive guys or ppqbs. Timonen is a great two way player, but he isn't really a shutdown. All our defensemen are basically "band-aid" panic solutions, see: Carle, Mez. We have a bunch of project guys who have panned out well, but aren't complete players.
If the Flyers go out and move big pieces for a dman, I wouldn't want another band aid solution. We aren't going to solve every problem with one move. I think bottom line though, we need a crease clearer type because we are awfully soft in our crease and its a real big liability, esp. With swiss cheese bryz.
Gleason may be that guy, but I'm really surprised everyone thinks he is going to come cheap. I'd reckon to believe A LOT of teams are going to be seeking his services. I'm think Allen would be a good compromise without compromising the farm.
I'd look at Jeff Schultz. He's the guy who made Mike Green look like an all-world defenseman. Locked in for 3 more years though. Can manage it. Assuming Holmgren feels like it. Put him with Carle and let him run loose.
Let's not forget that the cap is unlikely to go up next year. the NHL has already said the goal is to cut the players share from 57% to something closer to 50%
Eh, Honestly I disagree. I think without another true #1 going into next season (if Pronger isnt coming back) that defense is going to get destroyed. I like Wideman, but Gleason is alright (not a top pairing guy) and Liles is what he is, good in offensive zone but way to many breakdowns defensively. I think Suter is near top 10, but thats just me.
EDIT: I think adding guys like Liles, Gleason, and Wideman is pretty much adding players on the same level as Carle, Meszaros and Coburn. Top 4 guys who will never be #1s (and are mostly partner dependent).
Gleason is a not bad Dman, nice for a rental but I'd still rather have Carle and Mesz. Wideman and Liles are smurfs, you can't have them on a D with Kimmo and Gus, that's 4 smurfs, plus Gleason who is only 6' with Coburn. Wow, that's a playoff missing formula right there.
I don't think they can afford Suter's cap space, even if they can get him. He's looking at $7M/yr, given how much teams have paid for garbage like Wisniewski or avg guys like Ehrhoff.
Best bet right now is to get a guy who is going to make Carle money (mid to low $3Ms) and keep Carle using Pronger's $4.9M space.
Getting Suter before July 1 will cost too much, and means letting Carle and/or Mesz go, and it will still cause havoc if somehow Pronger comes back.
Homer has a tough balancing act. He has to start planning for Pronger never coming back, but he has to leave cap room in case he shows up and passes his physical.
I'd look at Jeff Schultz. He's the guy who made Mike Green look like an all-world defenseman. Locked in for 3 more years though. Can manage it. Assuming Holmgren feels like it. Put him with Carle and let him run loose.
I respect you GKJ, but you got this one wayyyy wrong.
It was Mike Green who made Jeff Schultz look respectable. Mike Green's Corsi with / without Schultz has always been great. And he's always put up the points. And his defensive play has definitely improved... he's a true #1 defenseman.
Jeff Schultz without Mike Green? Consistently the worst Corsi on the team. Total pylon, getting abused by other teams, hated by all Washington fans. Offered on these boards consistently for a bag of pucks.
Nobody ever wants to give Mike Green credit, but I'd 100% say he carried that pairing.
Let's not forget that the cap is unlikely to go up next year. the NHL has already said the goal is to cut the players share from 57% to something closer to 50%
I clearly said "Don't ruin my dreams now"...
Damn... I was actually hoping that my team was at least slightly realistic.
I should perhaps add that while I really, really hope we can land Suter in the summer, and I think that that is what Homer should really go for, I don't really believe that he'll be a Flyer next year. If he's not re-signing with the Preds, a team like Detroit is in a pretty good position to go out and get him I believe. Depending on what will happen with Rask, Boston might make a push as well. A few other teams are probably lining up to make a bid for him as well.
There are a few decent consolation prizes out there though.
Detroit is in a pretty good position to go out and get him I believe.
I was actually looking at Detroit's cap number for the next few years. The way they handle contracts is pretty masterful. They have a projected cap space of 24.6 million next year and a ton of open cap space down the road. They lose a ton of contracts yet manage to keep everyone they want.
I was actually looking at Detroit's cap number for the next few years. The way they handle contracts is pretty masterful. They have a projected cap space of 24.6 million next year and a ton of open cap space down the road. They lose a ton of contracts yet manage to keep everyone they want.
Ken Holland is a pretty damn good GM, and he surrounds himself with pretty smart people as well. I don't think there's any doubt about that.
The contracts given to Zetterberg, Franzén and Kronwall might not work out for them in the end though. They are signed for a very long time, and as we know, injuries happen. Kronwall and Franzén especially are troublesome for them I think. Zetterberg is a smart player, so he'll adapt as he slows down.
They seem to be able to get guys for 3M where most others have to pay 4 somehow though. 3.25M to Ericsson was a bit much however, imo.
I'd look at Jeff Schultz. He's the guy who made Mike Green look like an all-world defenseman. Locked in for 3 more years though. Can manage it. Assuming Holmgren feels like it. Put him with Carle and let him run loose.
I don't get why people think Suter is a great defenseman. The system in Nashville makes him look better than what he really is. I think if the Flyers give up a goldmine for him, they're going to be sorely disappointed in the results. It's easy to look like a rock star when the coach basically plays a system that makes all five players on the ice look like defensemen.
The Flyers need is basic for the blue line - they need a defensive defenseman who can play 20+ minutes a night in a shut down role and has a whole lot of mean to his game. Suter doesn't have that type of snarl in his game. A guy like Gleason is needed more than Suter. Matt Greene in Los Angeles would be another good fit if could be done.
I'm sharing your concern.
Smells like another 9 year 51M deal after we will already have been ripped off for acquiring his rights.
Jus for the sake of this team: DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO INSANE CONTRACTS BEFORE YOU HAVE SEEN THEM PERFORM IN YOUR SYSTEM.
I'm sharing your concern.
Smells like another 9 year 51M deal after we will already have been ripped off for acquiring his rights.
Jus for the sake of this team: DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO INSANE CONTRACTS BEFORE YOU HAVE SEEN THEM PERFORM IN YOUR SYSTEM.
If we trade any of our young talent i'm going to freak out. I want gleason for a "prospect" and a 2nd. We can look at replacing Pronger in the offseason.
I'm sharing your concern.
Smells like another 9 year 51M deal after we will already have been ripped off for acquiring his rights.
Jus for the sake of this team: DON'T SIGN PLAYERS TO INSANE CONTRACTS BEFORE YOU HAVE SEEN THEM PERFORM IN YOUR SYSTEM.
then you can forget about signing anyone then. there arent any "key" free agents who are going to sign one year deals so we can see if they can play in the system.
Bryzgalov better get his **** together or it wont matter who the Flyers sign for the blueline.
For those questioning if Suter is "that good"--he is. If you watched the Olympics, you should know that. His game has absolutely no flaws, and if he played in TOR, he's regarded as the legit superstar that he is.
The rumor out there is that the terms of a deal are agreed upon--it looks similar to Rinne's in length and amount--it's just waiting on Suter's decision to sign or not, which likely hinges on the Preds showing how serious they are about being a legit cup threat. If they can land one of the guys they're rumored after--Ryan or Getzlaf--then I think you'll see Suter and then weber extended shortly after.
With that said, if Suter is traded at or before the deadline, it's because someone paid dearly in "now" assets.
