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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 2.0

View Poll Results: Which would you draft this upcoming summer?
Mikhail Grigorenko 53 42.40%
Nail Yakupov 54 43.20%
Other 18 14.40%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #651
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
People need to stop saying Grigorenko is what we need, you never draft for need, especially when for the first time in long time you have a potential top 4 pick, you pick the best player available, even if that is a Dman
We "need" Yakupov, a winger who makes the players around him better and can score from anywhere (including the dirty areas) as much as we "need" Grigorenko. Forsberg, a big speedy winger with the most offensive upside of a Swedish prospect since Backstrom, fits a "need" too.

If there's anything worse than drafting for need, it's drafting entirely because of height. This isn't the NBA.

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02-05-2012, 01:28 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Grigorenko no points and -6 on Friday night.....

I will likely have to repeat this until draft day, but do not expect the Habs to pick Grigorenko no matter how far he may "drop" in the eyes of HF boarders - the Habs will not be risking a high pick on a risky player....period!!
Grant, you've gotta be kidding me, right? If you've watched him, you'll know that he's playing injured. If you're saying he's risky because of his injury, maybe, but because he was a -6 in a junior game? Cmon.

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02-05-2012, 01:30 PM
  #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Mikhail Grigorenko is still the prospect we should target the most in this draft. He is everything we need. But if he's not available, Alex Galchenyuk is definitely the player we should draft. Brett Connolly did only play 16 games and it didn't stop him from being pick 6th overall. And also, Galchenyuk is a much better prospect than Connolly.
I agree with this. Gigorenko has been compared by Bob Mckenzie as a "poor mans" Malkin. I think id take that any day. Also he is familiar with Quebec.

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02-05-2012, 02:32 PM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Grigorenko no points and -6 on Friday night.....

I will likely have to repeat this until draft day, but do not expect the Habs to pick Grigorenko no matter how far he may "drop" in the eyes of HF boarders - the Habs will not be risking a high pick on a risky player....period!!
I'm in no way doubting Grant's analysis, he's more of an insider than anyone else on these boards.

But just out of curiosity, how is the consensus #2 a "risky" player? I mean any player in the draft is a risk and he could turn out to be Stefan 2.0. But why would that be any more likely for him than any other high draft pick?

I'm just curious what makes him particularly risky. And then if I'm reading between the lines, should I read that that the Habs will take someone like Murray with a top-5 over Grigorenko or Galchenyuk? I'm not necessarily against the strategy of maximizing potential value with a BPA pick as good prospects always have good value. But the question is, will a log-jam of D prospects diminish the trade value of said prospects and youngsters if they never get to play in the NHL due to the logjam?

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02-05-2012, 05:33 PM
  #655
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hello gents,

just a friendly,informative post. Ive worked on gameday for the Sarnia Sting for 3 years now, Yakupov is out of the question Nail will go #1 and barring a miracle we will not slip that far. However, Alex Galchenyuk is what the team needs, i like Grigorenko but they are tqo very different players. Grigorenko is a lot less flashy, gets alot of secondary assists. Gally creates plays will his soft hands and if very good at using his body to shield his stick, im just saying, as A sarnia sting employee and Hab fan i hope we end up with Galchenyuk.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
LeBlanc - Eller - UFA/Palushaj
UFA - UFA - White

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02-05-2012, 05:41 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
hello gents,

just a friendly,informative post. Ive worked on gameday for the Sarnia Sting for 3 years now, Yakupov is out of the question Nail will go #1 and barring a miracle we will not slip that far. However, Alex Galchenyuk is what the team needs, i like Grigorenko but they are tqo very different players. Grigorenko is a lot less flashy, gets alot of secondary assists. Gally creates plays will his soft hands and if very good at using his body to shield his stick, im just saying, as A sarnia sting employee and Hab fan i hope we end up with Galchenyuk.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
LeBlanc - Eller - UFA/Palushaj
UFA - UFA - White
Thanks for the input! And yes, barring an unlikely draw with the lottery, Yakupov will be a Blue Jacket. I certainly see Galchenyuk as the very attractive consolation prize for Grigorenko. Like what I saw of him last year and I like his hockey background too.

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02-05-2012, 07:02 PM
  #657
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Forsberg isn't a bad option either,and players with the speed,playmaking and scoring he has can easily be a center as much as a winger.Galchenyuk by all counts is tremendous as well so Timmins will make the right choice and if we pick first or second its going to be a great draft day,especially if there are trades for extra picks no matter if they are 1st's or 2nd's.Looking forward to a long season,waiting for draft day and UFA the next week.

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02-05-2012, 09:50 PM
  #658
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Well if it's true that Timmins thinks Grigorenko is "risky", well they will unfortunately think that Galchenyuk will be risky as well due to injury and lack of playing time this year. I hope they go beyond that. More and more, I'm started to be more excited to get Galchenyuk than Yakupov...( I said started....I'm not there yet, and might never will....)

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02-05-2012, 09:56 PM
  #659
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I really like Galchenyuk, he is my #1pick for the habs to draft. Doesnt Galchenyuk have canadian roots as well? Either way I still like him over grigo.

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02-05-2012, 09:58 PM
  #660
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If the Habs pass on Grigorenko or Galchenyuk. I'm done.

We've needed a big franchise center since forever and if they pass because of risk, then, I'm done. If they pick another D, I'll be so furious.

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02-05-2012, 10:02 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If the Habs pass on Grigorenko or Galchenyuk. I'm done.

We've needed a big franchise center since forever and if they pass because of risk, then, I'm done. If they pick another D, I'll be so furious.
Pretty much this. I think 5th or 6th will probably be good enough to get Galchenyuk. Hell, it might even be good enough to snag Forsberg.

I really cant see us not going after that dynamic center we've been needing since...I can't even remember when.

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02-05-2012, 10:05 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If the Habs pass on Grigorenko or Galchenyuk. I'm done.

We've needed a big franchise center since forever and if they pass because of risk, then, I'm done. If they pick another D, I'll be so furious.
Yakupov is better than both, so if they somehow get 1st overall you'd be "done"? That's ridiculous.

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02-05-2012, 10:08 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If the Habs pass on Grigorenko or Galchenyuk. I'm done.

We've needed a big franchise center since forever and if they pass because of risk, then, I'm done. If they pick another D, I'll be so furious.
Same here...but I'll be more cautious of my reaction.... Yet, you look at the D's in place and somehow you feel that there are more guys in Timmins mold like Dumba, Trouba and Matta on D that there are as forwards.

But like you, we can't miss that opportunity to FINALLY get that big centerman we need. I mean, even if we pick a little later and those guys aren't available, I probably would even be okay if we go the Faksa or the Gaunce route. Not that Matteau one 'cause frankly, I don't believe in his upside and I don't believe he'll be a centerman in this league, so there is a limit of what centerman obsession. Though....at one point, if we pick #5 , means we are also picking #35, and that's ALSO pretty exciting.

Nieves at #35....So let's say Galchenyuk and Nieves...wow...wet dream right there. By the way people....Cristoval Nieves. Just remember that name. And note that he is headed to be a .....WOLVERINE!!!! Can't miss prospect. Make it happen Trevor!!!!

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02-05-2012, 10:09 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yakupov is better than both, so if they somehow get 1st overall you'd be "done"? That's ridiculous.
More spectacular definitively but overall better? Im not so sure..

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02-05-2012, 10:15 PM
  #665
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It is an absolute must that one of Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Yakupov must be taken.

Grant may be right, and the Habs don't want a risky prospect, but I think the philosophy has to change.

Here's why... Habs have a ton of good but not great prospects at forward... a ton of guys like Kristo, Gallagher, Bournival, Leblanc, Palushaj, Holland, who project as 2nd or 3rd liners, but they don't have that elite talent.

This is where you get that elite game changing talent.... the franchise player at forward that we desperately need.

You cant pass it up.

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02-05-2012, 10:15 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Same here...but I'll be more cautious of my reaction.... Yet, you look at the D's in place and somehow you feel that there are more guys in Timmins mold like Dumba, Trouba and Matta on D that there are as forwards.

But like you, we can't miss that opportunity to FINALLY get that big centerman we need. I mean, even if we pick a little later and those guys aren't available, I probably would even be okay if we go the Faksa or the Gaunce route. Not that Matteau one 'cause frankly, I don't believe in his upside and I don't believe he'll be a centerman in this league, so there is a limit of what centerman obsession. Though....at one point, if we pick #5 , means we are also picking #35, and that's ALSO pretty exciting.

Nieves at #35....So let's say Galchenyuk and Nieves...wow...wet dream right there. By the way people....Cristoval Nieves. Just remember that name. And note that he is headed to be a .....WOLVERINE!!!! Can't miss prospect. Make it happen Trevor!!!!
Nieves has been a name that's been on my radar all season long, but how has he been coming along? Has he really been developing?

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02-05-2012, 10:18 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Nieves has been a name that's been on my radar all season long, but how has he been coming along? Has he really been developing?
What I'm more impressed by him is his overall understanding of the game, on top of having some real upside offensively. I tell you, for the 2nd round, he's CLEARLY Habs material. My belief is that he's a whole lot of teams' material....We'll see though, he might fall due to lack of viewing and big competition, it often does it to players. But I see the upside nonetheless. And my bias tells me that Berenson in Michigan will be a tremendous coach for him. It is tough to exactly determine the real development of a player in that kind of level though. And that's what scares some people. But I see it. Let's hope Timmins does too. We need to keep that Michigan streak alive after Bennett graduate in 2013....

Unless we pick a little later and we do go the Trouba way, which would also keep the Michigan streak.....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 02-05-2012 at 10:26 PM.
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02-05-2012, 10:24 PM
  #668
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I havent seen Nieves, but the report is intriguing.

Can you describe him a little more?

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02-05-2012, 10:26 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
People need to stop saying Grigorenko is what we need, you never draft for need, especially when for the first time in long time you have a potential top 4 pick, you pick the best player available, even if that is a Dman
People need to stop saying "draft the BPA" because no one knows who the BPA is!, if they did there would never be a "steal" or "sleeper".

Habs need offense, drafting another dman is downright idiotic when you have a deep defensive pool. When you have a pick in the top 5 and they are all so incredibly talented you take the player that you need/fits your team the most.

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02-05-2012, 10:29 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yakupov is better than both, so if they somehow get 1st overall you'd be "done"? That's ridiculous.
It was implied that Yakupov would already off the board. Said poster said he would be done if they went with a D over Grigorenko/Galyenchuk

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02-05-2012, 10:29 PM
  #671
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I don't think that a team should operate with a strict needs based philosophy or a strict BPA philosophy, but a mix of both.

I.E. you need to weigh how big is the need and how much of a difference there is between the two players.

If there is a defenceman who is head and shoulders above everyone else in your scouts eyes, who is just a cant miss guy, we still take him.

But if the D is only a small bit ahead of the forward, take the forward, because we have a lot of D already in the system.

Making yourself set in stone one way or the other is how you make mistakes.

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02-05-2012, 10:32 PM
  #672
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I havent seen Nieves, but the report is intriguing.

Can you describe him a little more?
A great skater, with a great offensive mindset that improved his defensive play and has now become pretty reliable on both sides. Like some of the reports are mentioning, the only real thing is that you hope he becomes more an initiator and used his body more frequently 'cause while it's not all filled up, it is pretty big compared to the opposition he has right now and I guess he is taking it easy. But once in the NCAA, he will understand he has to use it way more. Has a lot of untapped offensive potential for me. Just a great nice body with some pretty impressive skating to go with that. Honestly, while the skating is not as impressive, he might be this year's Chris Kreider. Though Kreider filled up a lot in his last years so you hope Nieves would do that as well but he has the body to fill it up.

But it always come down to being able to analyse who is just way better than the competition he's playing against. We have seen A LOT of examples of players who destroyed that league and have a lot of trouble just to find a niche in the NCAA. Somehow, I just don't believe it will be the case with him. Though, as much as I'm a big Michigan fan, who says Michigan says A LOT of competition within the team and you REALLY have to win your spot. So he might even have to miss some games in his 1st year. Yet, I see him as a 3-year NCAA project.

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02-05-2012, 10:38 PM
  #673
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What I'm more impressed by him is his overall understanding of the game, on top of having some real upside offensively. I tell you, for the 2nd round, he's CLEARLY Habs material. My belief is that he's a whole lot of teams' material....We'll see though, he might fall due to lack of viewing and big competition, it often does it to players. But I see the upside nonetheless. And my bias tells me that Berenson in Michigan will be a tremendous coach for him. It is tough to exactly determine the real development of a player in that kind of level though. And that's what scares some people. But I see it. Let's hope Timmins does too. We need to keep that Michigan streak alive after Bennett graduate in 2013....

Unless we pick a little later and we do go the Trouba way, which would also keep the Michigan streak.....
All I know about Nieves is that he has some of the softest mitts, and one of the smoothest strides I've seen on a kid his size in a while.

There's only one vid of him out there, but in it he just walks through 2 russian defenders and the goalie. It looked effortless.

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02-05-2012, 10:55 PM
  #674
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Same here...but I'll be more cautious of my reaction.... Yet, you look at the D's in place and somehow you feel that there are more guys in Timmins mold like Dumba, Trouba and Matta on D that there are as forwards.

But like you, we can't miss that opportunity to FINALLY get that big centerman we need. I mean, even if we pick a little later and those guys aren't available, I probably would even be okay if we go the Faksa or the Gaunce route. Not that Matteau one 'cause frankly, I don't believe in his upside and I don't believe he'll be a centerman in this league, so there is a limit of what centerman obsession. Though....at one point, if we pick #5 , means we are also picking #35, and that's ALSO pretty exciting.

Nieves at #35....So let's say Galchenyuk and Nieves...wow...wet dream right there. By the way people....Cristoval Nieves. Just remember that name. And note that he is headed to be a .....WOLVERINE!!!! Can't miss prospect. Make it happen Trevor!!!!
If Timmins gets those two they better start planning the route for the Stanley Cup Parade.

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02-05-2012, 11:32 PM
  #675
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Gosh I hate when we win these days. We are playing bad, but the team isn't supposed to be as bad as others around our position. Right now, we have a top 5 pick, but we could very well get the 10th pick + at the draft...we need to lose!

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