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Pierre Gauthier moves as GM

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01-11-2012, 01:41 PM
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habs03
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Pierre Gauthier moves as GM

Hey I posted this on the main board, but thanks to "sheed36" suggestion, I thought I'd post there here. Again I'm not so much saying he is a good GM, but is he as bad as ppl some people make him seem. Because to me, he has made a Gomez/Ribeiro type mistake..

I noticed that PG gets a lot of heat from Hab fans and around the league, so I tried to break down most of his moves as the GM of the Habs, and tried to put my 2 cents in it. Wondering what you guys think, because I don’t think he is as bad as people make him seem. I try to touch all the bases, like cap issue, trades, singings, MTL size issue etc.

1: Pulushaj for Matt D’agostini

D’agostini had 2 goals and 4 points in 44 games at the time of the trade and would have needed to go through waivers to be sent down.
Pulushaj was a 2nd round draft pick, and hasn’t shown much in the NHL yet, but is still only 22 and in two AHL season he has put up 22G,57P in 68 games, and this year: 23 points in 21 games in the AHL.
I would say this was a win for the Habs, because it gave them a decent prospect for a guy that most likely would have lost through waivers.

2: 2nd round pick for Dominic Moore

Moore was good for the Habs during their playoff run in 2010.
He was let go, but PG signed Halpern to a 1 year 600K, and IMO Halpern has just as good as Moore was last year.
I’d say this was a decent move aswell, but seeing how Halpern went to the Caps July 1st, and Blair Betts claim on waivers didn’t work for the Habs, PG had to trade Brocks Trotter (AHL) and a 7th round pick for Joe Cllahan (AHL) and Nokelainen.
I’d say that was a bad move in not addressing it earlier and using a 7th round pick for Nokelainen.

3: Lapierre for a 5th: Then Traded the 5th for Mara.

Basically traded Lapierre for Mara.
IMO could have waited a little long and got a bit more for Lapierre, like a 3rd which the Ducks traded him for at the deadline, but Lapierre did ask for a trade out of MTL.

4: Sopel, Dawes(AHL), for Maxwell and a 4th.

Basically a 4th for Maxwell, Sopel was really good for us so I think this was a really good trade even though PG let him walk, but it was just for a 4th round pick.
5: Ryan O’byrne for Michael Bournival: I think this is a lot like the Dags for Pulashaj trade, O’byrne is a 5-6 depth D-man, and Bournival has the could possible become a good 3rd-4thliner.

6: S.Kostitsyn for Boyd and Ellis:

Horrible trade, traded a 2-3rd line player, for basically nothing. But S.kost did have some problems with MTL, but PG should have tried to get some picks instead.

7: Halak for Eller and Schultz:

First, he had the guts to trade Halak when almost everyone was expecting Price to be traded. And Price has shown that it was the right choice.
But the trade itself. Some say he could have waited, but IMO if he had waited, he could have risked having to take a 1st round pick and 3rd instead of Eller and Schultz, who were actually former 1st round picks and 3rd round picks themselves. Had PG waited to July 1st, say St Louis signed Halak to an offer sheet of 3.75M per, MTL would have gotten a 1st, and 3rd the next year, and MTL valued Eller Schultz>1st/3rd in 2011, so I would call this a good trade for MTL.

8: Wiz for a 2nd/Markov 5.75/3 years:

PG was able to get Wiz for only a 2nd round pick and got him for 43 games, while other guys Macable went for a 3rd at the dealine, and Kaberle went for a 1st/2nd and a prospect.
But he chose to sign Markov at 3 years 5.75 instead of Wiz at 6 year 5.5. Now I would not have signed Wiz, but so far the Markov signing which was a risk has been very bad. The only bright spot is that Markov should be back after the All Star break which should he him finish the season and play about 30 game, this allows MTL an Markov to see if he can still play hockey and if so great, if not they know he will be on the IR for the rest of contract.

9: Kaberle for Spacek:

IMO this trade is basically like signing Kaberle for 4.25M for 2 years, seeing Spacek would have been a UFA after this season. Kaberle has been decent in MTL 8 points in 13 games, only -2 on a bad team, but he has been player in a 3rd pairing role. Seems like a decent move. His 4.25 cap hit is only 6.75% of the cap, and if you look down below on the team chart, you could see that his cap hit doesn’t affect the team resigning key players.

10: Signed Cole/Daiz and Emelin/Campoli

All seem to be really good additions. Campoli hasn’t been that good, but he left Hamrlik walk when he wanted a 2 year deal, so it good that he signed Campoli instead, who could probably get us a draft pick at the deadline, than have Hamrlik for another year.

11: Scouting changes

PG made a big change to the scouting staff for the Habs, and while I don’t know much about the changes, put I do know he bought in Ryan Jankowski would was Ast GM for the Islanders and head of their scouting, he drafted guys like Andrew Macdonald, Travis Hamonic, De Haan.

12: MTL “size issue”

A lot of fans think MTL is too small to win, while I don’t agree with it, pretty much all of PG moves has been to bring more size to the team. Eller and Schultz, both 6’2, signing of Cole, bring over Emelin, even small deals like Bluden 6’4 for Russel (AHL), letting Pyatt walk and replace him with White.

13: “Management”

I remember someone made a thread because he thought PG was a rat or something, because he said “were sorry if we offended anyone’ for hiring a English only speaking coach. Now I think that’s misguided. When he first fired JM (who was not his choice for coach), he said RC was the best guy at the moment, and that French isn’t an issue and it’s something that can be learnt. After the backlash, it was the owner(to be fair, the money he borrowed came from companies like Bell Media which owns RDS) that made a statement saying sorry to offered anyone and that RW is just an interim and things will be revaluated in the summer.

Also some say blame him that he didn’t talk contact with Wiz and Halak, when he didn’t want to resign either and he felt that he knew what their value was, (he was right on Halak).

When Spacek was trade for Kaberle, PG told Spacek that he had been traded, but he couldn’t tell him where because it didn’t get NHL approval yet and that it would be best to wait until the other GM got in touch with him. Some say why even tell Spacek he was traded if I wasn’t official, but on the other hand, how bad would it have looked if the Canes actually called Spacek to welcome and tell him the travel without him knowing he was even traded by the Habs.

Also this seems to go against some of what other player agents have been saying . Gorges for example, said that he appreciated how PG was always honest with him in contract talks, and give him details of why they could only offer him 1 year deal in the summer.

Also Price agent also said that PG was great in the sense that when though Price only said a few days before Camp started, that PG would let them know whenever rumors came up about MTL going after another goalie that they weren’t true/

14: Cap:

When the Kaberle trade happened, and also recently, PG was asked about how the trade made no sense because of cap space for the next year, and he responded, by saying that cap space is an issue that can be resolved, and it won’t affect signing players they want, and recently he said that he had “all the resources” to him in regargs to cap space. IMO that clearly is a sign that Gomez will not be with the team beyond this season, IMO most likely loaned to Europe like Heut. With that, Mtl would easily have a line going into next season of, this is with this year cap, and trying a realistic salary for eacher player signing or resigning. Added Bryan Allen type player for 3.5M per, and Stoll type player for 3.75, a guy that can play Centre or Wing, incase MTL want doesn’t want to go with Plek-DD-Eller, someone like Stoll, Ruutu or Brodizak are guy that could fit that role IMO.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Mike Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($3.750m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.750m)
Travis Moen ($1.500m) / Petteri Nokelainen ($0.550m) / Ryan White ($0.625m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.000m)
Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.000m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($5.000m)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,100,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,200,000

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01-11-2012, 01:42 PM
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Are are you discussion they were on the main thread...


Originally Posted by Uncle Howie
I think the biggest issue is the debacle with the coach.... he basically made Cunningworth a lame duck coach, and took the rug right beneath him.


Originally Posted by habs03

I honestly feel bad for RC and how he has been treated by the Habs management.
Very true, I think Molson had a lot of pressure from above him to make that comment in saying that RC was just here until the end of the season, because when PG fired JM he said RC was the best option and that him speaking French is something that could be learnt. And its funny that PG was the guy to hire a none French speaking coach, but I think he is one of a few GM lately that doesn't care all that much about having French content on the team. He was asked if two players were of equal talent, would you pick the French player? He responded with saying that there were no such thing as equal talent.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/301294.html

Now Cammy and Gionta, how overpaid are they?

If you don't mind, I wanna take their first 2 seaosn in MTL, seeing how this season has been bad all around. Including play-offs

Gionta
Season 1: 80 Games, 37 goals
Season 2: 89 games 32 goals
5M per year, how much is Gionta actually overpaid?

Cammy
Season 1: 84 games, 39 goals
Season 2: 72 games, 23 goals

6M per, how much is Cammy overpaid, 1M, 1.5 max?


Last edited by habs03: 01-11-2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: merge
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01-11-2012, 01:44 PM
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forgot the Noke trade.

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01-11-2012, 01:45 PM
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The Blues lost every trade, which is why they're doing so poorly and are 2-0 against the Habs.

Stats don't lie.

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01-11-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
forgot the Noke trade.
I tried to connect some of the trades, example after the Moore trade, he left him walk but he signed Halpern, and try to connect that to the claim he made for Betts, and finally led to the Noke trade.

Sorry if it isn't well written out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC Vapo View Post
The Blues lost every trade, which is why they're doing so poorly and are 2-0 against the Habs.

Stats don't lie.
I'm not sure if your just trolling, here and on the main board, but I'm looking at it from a MTL point of view. Whether not or how much the Blues gained both trades with MTL is pointless in this discussion.


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01-11-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC Vapo View Post
The Blues lost every trade, which is why they're doing so poorly and are 2-0 against the Habs.

Stats don't lie.
I don't mind the Halak trade at all and love Eller, still think we could have had a little more but I'm ok with that deal

D'Agostini is a type of player we would all love on our 3rd line and we traded him for a future AHLer, anyone saying we won that trade has problems

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01-11-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Are are you discussion they were on the main thread...


Originally Posted by Uncle Howie
I think the biggest issue is the debacle with the coach.... he basically made Cunningworth a lame duck coach, and took the rug right beneath him.

I honestly feel bad for RC and how he has been treated by the Habs management.
Very true, I think Molson had a lot of pressure from above him to make that comment in saying that RC was just here until the end of the season, because when PG fired JM he said RC was the best option and that him speaking French is something that could be learnt. And its funny that PG was the guy to hire a none French speaking coach, but I think he is one of a few GM lately that doesn't care all that much about having French content on the team. He was asked if two players were of equal talent, would you pick the French player? He responded with saying that there were no such thing as equal talent.

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/301294.html

Now Cammy and Gionta, how overpaid are they?

If you don't mind, I wanna take their first 2 seaosn in MTL, seeing how this season has been bad all around. Including play-offs

Gionta
Season 1: 80 Games, 37 goals
Season 2: 89 games 32 goals
5M per year, how much is Gionta actually overpaid?

Cammy
Season 1: 84 games, 39 goals
Season 2: 72 games, 23 goals

6M per, how much is Cammy overpaid, 1M, 1.5 max?
A lame Duck coach is one on the last year of his contract.

Cunneyworth was made interim coach, because he was the best internal option and external ones were probably not available till the summer anyways so he gets 50 games to see what Cunneyworth can do. I doubt PG cares about language, but Molson does a bit just because of PR reasons. If Cunneyworth had gone 10-2-1 as a coach nobody would be talking language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I don't mind the Halak trade at all and love Eller, still think we could have had a little more but I'm ok with that deal

D'Agostini is a type of player we would all love on our 3rd line and we traded him for a future AHLer, anyone saying we won that trade has problems
So with everybody complaining about having a small, soft team you want another one on the 3rd line instaed of Eller, AK or Moen?


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01-11-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
1: Pulushaj for Matt D’agostini

D’agostini had 2 goals and 4 points in 44 games at the time of the trade and would have needed to go through waivers to be sent down.
Pulushaj was a 2nd round draft pick, and hasn’t shown much in the NHL yet, but is still only 22 and in two AHL season he has put up 22G,57P in 68 games, and this year: 23 points in 21 games in the AHL.
I would say this was a win for the Habs, because it gave them a decent prospect for a guy that most likely would have lost through waivers.
Really ? Really ? Palushaj will always be a AHLer and D'Agostini is a solid 3rd liner in the NHL, who can take a spot in the top 6 if there are injuries.

I do not say it was a bad move at the time, but St-Louis win this one easily

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01-11-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I'm not sure if your just trolling, here and on the main board, but I'm looking at it from a MTL point of view. Whether not or how much the Blues gained both trades with MTL is pointless in this discussion.
Gauthier has not been very impressive on the trade front in his whole gM career! alot of small forgetable trades too many he has come up the loser-Hope Julien Brisbois is NOT hired as next GM- another gainey Cronie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So with everybody complaining about having a small, soft team you want another one on the 3rd line instaed of Eller, AK or Moen?
AK and Moen will not be a hab next season--


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01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
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A lame Duck coach is one on the last year of his contract.

Cunneyworth was made interim coach, because he was the best internal option and external ones were probably not available till the summer anyways so he gets 50 games to see what Cunneyworth can do. I doubt PG cares about language, but Molson does a bit just because of PR reasons. If Cunneyworth had gone 10-2-1 as a coach nobody would be talking language.
Exactly, there were actually two posters by different ppl in the one you quoted, but I copy pasted it wrong, so I fixed it.

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01-11-2012, 01:58 PM
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Exactly, there were actually two posters by different ppl in the one you quoted, but I copy pasted it wrong, so I fixed it.
but he hasnt- thats the point

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01-11-2012, 01:59 PM
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So with everybody complaining about having a small, soft team you want another one on the 3rd line instaed of Eller, AK or Moen?
You seriously have trouble reading don't you. I said he traded D'agostini a solid player that would be a perfect 3rd liner who is 6 feet and 200 pounds for a career AHLer Palushaj at 5'11" and 185 pounds. Yes we got bigger in that deal

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01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
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You seriously have trouble reading don't you. I said he traded D'agostini a solid player that would be a perfect 3rd liner who is 6 feet and 200 pounds for a career AHLer Palushaj at 5'11" and 185 pounds. Yes we got bigger in that deal
HABS lost that trade- no doubt

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01-11-2012, 02:00 PM
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Really ? Really ? Palushaj will always be a AHLer and D'Agostini is a solid 3rd liner in the NHL, who can take a spot in the top 6 if there are injuries.

I do not say it was a bad move at the time, but St-Louis win this one easily
Like I said, trying to look at it from a Habs point of view, Dags had 2 goals and 4 points in 44 games that year, and had to pass to through waivers if we sent him down. Pulashaj might not have a future with the Habs becuase we have a lot of RW, but at the same age as Dags was, he is produce and has had more impact in the AHL.

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01-11-2012, 02:02 PM
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Like I said, trying to look at it from a Habs point of view, Dags had 2 goals and 4 points in 44 games that year, and had to pass to through waivers if we sent him down. Pulashaj might not have a future with the Habs becuase we have a lot of RW, but at the same age as Dags was, he is produce and has had more impact in the AHL.
He also had 21 pts in 53 games the year before. He was unlucky and suffered an injury that year that set him back a little. I think it was a concussion against the Hawks. Way to soon to give up on young players but we seem to do that quite often

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01-11-2012, 02:03 PM
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Yeah, I'm really not trolling, he paced your first and second liners in points last season when he had to step up due to injuries, and he's been incredibly solid defensively this season, and pretty decent offensively considering he's getting 3rd line minutes.

I'm not trying to stoke the fire, but really, you got a career, undersized AHLer for a solid 2nd or 3rd line NHLer who has proven he can step it up on the first line if needed, and he's also not afraid to shy away from physical play, which is something the Habs need.

Right off the bat, saying Montreal won that trade is a joke. Sorry.

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01-11-2012, 02:04 PM
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If I was Molson even with the moves he did I would fire him because of :

- Markov signing (3 years contract and he did not play yet... even if it is the evaluation of the doctors at fault someone need to be blamed)

- Unilingual coach (PR point of view)

- Performance of the team as a whole this season

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01-11-2012, 02:06 PM
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Aw Shoot!

I read the title of the thread and thought it was going to go like this...........

Pierre Gauthier moves as GM to <pick any team>.

But now I get it - he's still here and we're discussing his moves or lack thereof. Back to being depressed. (well not really, lol). It's all kinda funny now.

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01-11-2012, 02:06 PM
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Yeah, I'm really not trolling, he paced your first and second liners in points last season when he had to step up due to injuries, and he's been incredibly solid defensively this season, and pretty decent offensively considering he's getting 3rd line minutes.

I'm not trying to stoke the fire, but really, you got a career, undersized AHLer for a solid 2nd or 3rd line NHLer who has proven he can step it up on the first line if needed, and he's also not afraid to shy away from physical play, which is something the Habs need.

Right off the bat, saying Montreal won that trade is a joke. Sorry.
Very good point, but Pulashaj is doing very well in the AHL, and maybe he could be used as trade bait.

But like I said, if the worst move PG has made was trading Dags for Pulashaj, he clearly isn't as bad as he is made out to be.

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01-11-2012, 02:10 PM
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You seriously have trouble reading don't you. I said he traded D'agostini a solid player that would be a perfect 3rd liner who is 6 feet and 200 pounds for a career AHLer Palushaj at 5'11" and 185 pounds. Yes we got bigger in that deal
So instead of trading Dagostini for a younger asset he should have just been put on waivers? Because that's what was happening, we had no room for him top 6, 3rd line he was a poor fit on the 3rd and 4th lines.

D'agostini may be slightly bigger but Palushaj plays a more gritty game.

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01-11-2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
You seriously have trouble reading don't you. I said he traded D'agostini a solid player that would be a perfect 3rd liner who is 6 feet and 200 pounds for a career AHLer Palushaj at 5'11" and 185 pounds. Yes we got bigger in that deal
So a 22 year old Palushaj is already a future AHLer? D'Agostini was splitting time in the AHL and NHL when he was Palushaj's age and Palushaj has put up similar numbers to him. The difference is when D'Agostini got called up at first he was getting top six minutes unlike Palushaj who basically was getting 5 minutes a game on our fourth line when he got called up. We give up young players too early according to posters here then people are already calling a guy who's over a PPG in the AHL a career AHLer despite still only being 22...

Pretty funny how when D'Agostini got traded most people here were expecting he'd get waived and were surprised we even got a prospect for him since he was soft, couldn't play D and had only 4 points in over half the season. We didn't win that trade but D'Agostini wasn't going to become a productive player for the Habs and needed a change of scenery.

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01-11-2012, 02:12 PM
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Very good point, but Pulashaj is doing very well in the AHL, and maybe he could be used as trade bait.

But like I said, if the worst move PG has made was trading Dags for Pulashaj, he clearly isn't as bad as he is made out to be.
That I agree with, he really wasn't going anywhere with Montreal, so I guess he shouldn't really be faulted for that

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01-11-2012, 02:14 PM
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He also had 21 pts in 53 games the year before. He was unlucky and suffered an injury that year that set him back a little. I think it was a concussion against the Hawks. Way to soon to give up on young players but we seem to do that quite often
What do you want to do, keep all the young players and have a roster of 38? You can only have 23 players and after 3 years they have to pass waivers, so at some point players have to be moved. Not everybody is a perfect fit and you have to make moves.

Guys like SK and Dagostini wouldn't be playing ahead of Gionta Cammalleri Pacioretty AK and Cole so they would have less ice time, less PP time nowhere near the numbers they had last year. I have to laugh when people talk about them like they were major losses.

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01-11-2012, 02:16 PM
  #24
Habs Icing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post

12: MTL “size issue”

A lot of fans think MTL is too small to win, while I don’t agree with it, pretty much all of PG moves has been to bring more size to the team. Eller and Schultz, both 6’2, signing of Cole, bring over Emelin, even small deals like Bluden 6’4 for Russel (AHL), letting Pyatt walk and replace him with White.
This is typical of the spinning in your post. PG brought more size really?

Before his tenure we had
Pleks
Cammy
Gionta
Gomez

During his tenure we got
Pleks
Cammy
Gionta
Gomez
campoli
Diaz
DD
Kaberle.

Our small and/or soft players increased did not decrease. True he brought in Eller & Cole but the fact is the number of small players increased, did not decrease. Some of the small players are good players but thrown into a small team they become useless.

If Gauthier wanted to address the size issue he would have done it. Look at Dale Tallon, in three years he turned the Hawks around from a bottom feeder to the class. Lucky, you say. Well, he goes to Florida and in a little over one year he turns that team from a joke to a contender.

So Gauthier with Gainey pulling the strings has had enough effing time. No more effing &*^% excuses.

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01-11-2012, 02:17 PM
  #25
Habs 4 Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What do you want to do, keep all the young players and have a roster of 38? You can only have 23 players and after 3 years they have to pass waivers, so at some point players have to be moved. Not everybody is a perfect fit and you have to make moves.

Guys like SK and Dagostini wouldn't be playing ahead of Gionta Cammalleri Pacioretty AK and Cole so they would have less ice time, less PP time nowhere near the numbers they had last year. I have to laugh when people talk about them like they were major losses.
They're not major loses CP, but I honestly think we could have done better trade wise. That's it, it's not that hard to understand. If a team is calling YOU and they REALLY want that certain player, then pay up or look elsewhere it's simple

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