Think it's what most people dont get... while he may not be as good as they are/were...
guys like Stamkos or Robitaille/Hull/Bossy in the past were more or less the same...
- not good defensively
- not heavy hitters (Ovechkin being the exception)
- not great passers
- etc
they have one or two things for them... wich is their shots and their ability to find open spaces...
so yeah, they will complain if they dont have a great passer on their line, and they'll also complain when the play isnt focused on them...
and it's understandable since if you dont do that, they become useless...
Maybe if Cammy stopped trying to sauce pucks into the net and actually put some muscle into it he'd have a few more goals. Still can't figure out why he does that...
I'm not really sure what the problem is with him at the moment. I think his frustration reached a boiling point with his comments today.
I almost never buy the effort argument for any player, let alone Cammy. This is a guy who is probably the most health conscious player in the league and is built like a tank, albeit a small one at that.
Anyone who considers trading Subban is truly a idiot.
Wouldn't that depend on what you got in return? If Philly can move the pillars of their franchise, why can't we do the same?
We all know no player is untouchable, so why wouldn't you listen to offers? Honestly, look at the top teams in the league, the blueline isn't as important as what you can throw up front, and put in the net.
I can tell you Cammy wouldn't be soft or ineffective in Boston.
Cammy wasn't "soft" in Calgary or LA. He also wasn't as ineffective in those cities as he is in Montreal. Instead of thinking Hey, maybe this team just frigging sucks and hasn't surrounded him with the right players it's "oh he sucks". Why do players "suck" here but are good elsewhere? Ask yourself that question. Pleks would be a stud on a legit team.
You can ask for Yakupov, Getzlaf, Weber, etc... nothing will change as long as the identity remains the same. Why don't people get this?
Well some do get it. I keep asking for a change of philosophy for how many years now? Brad Marchand would play like Bambi if he played with us.
The most incredible thing for me is that that philosophy clearly didn't improve with Gainey on board. A Gainey who saw the kind of mix you needed to win. A Gainey who was actually HIMSELF a great mix of all kinds of players. A Gainey who actually PLAYED in teams with the greatest of mix possible.
But I tell you what the problem is. It's called surfing on your success and having low expectations. For years now, we keep aiming for "making the playoffs". And you keep hearing the organization saying that we didn't need to get bigger and tougher, 'cause at one point, we kept beating the Bruins who at that time were already bigger and tougher. Yet, they didn,t take 2 things into consideration. First, Bruins IMPROVED their skill level. Which OF COURSE is needed whenever you have a gritty and bigger team. You still need talent. And then, the Habs just forgot that it's all about confidence. Bruins had this loser mentality against us. But then things change, and they don't anymore. Yet, we STILL have the same mentality of puck possession supposed speed and we will win thanks to our goalie and PP. Our mentality didn't change and didn't adapt. By the way, for people who keeps bringing SPEED as our main asset and what differentiate our team from the others....sorry, but like the Habs, you also have to wake up. People should just watch hockey. There are plenty of fast teams out there and even faster than our team.
But then, how can we change mentality with that management? You just can't. Time to change. Yet, people, even wit new management, can't expect a change in one second. Kaberle, Gomez and Co, shouldn't be movable. And you can't bury everybody in the minors. But they will have to make moves to make their point understood.
When Julien was hired in Boston he said one thing. We need to be tougher to play against, we need to play the style that Boston is all about. And so they did, with the result we know. Time for our management to REALLY make some statements. And now stupid "we'll work harder" empty phrases....
Think it's what most people dont get... while he may not be as good as they are/were...
guys like Stamkos or Robitaille/Hull/Bossy in the past were more or less the same...
- not good defensively
- not heavy hitters (Ovechkin being the exception)
- not great passers
- etc
they have one or two things for them... wich is their shots and their ability to find open spaces...
so yeah, they will complain if they dont have a great passer on their line, and they'll also complain when the play isnt focused on them...
and it's understandable since if you dont do that, they become useless...
Bingo. But Habs are too busy trying to turn every player into 2 way dynamos. You can't have a team full of defensively responsible guys. Yes, you don't want them to be absolute stiffs in their own zone, but your high end goal scorers should only be focussing on scoring goals.
We asked Cam to buy into a defensive system, told him to focus more on his defensive game then get mad when he can't score? Subban is the same thing. He is an offensive minded Dman. He is going to turn the puck over. But people want him to become a stay at home defenseman at 22 years old. So he focuses on his D and now he can't score.
Just saying..it's too easy to just blame the player. There are many other factors to consider.
Preferably, I'd want neither, but in Subban case, it's because I don't like his lack of discipline. But Cammalleri is just a straight out loser in my mind. I could live with Subban on the team, even if I'd rather use him as a trade asset.
Lack of discipline is one thing that is fixed rather easily.
You can't fix skating. You can't fix hockey sense. You can't fix balance. You can't fix a weak shot. You can't fix bad.
But you can fix a lack of discipline. IF that is indeed the problem.
That would be the worst reason to trade Subban. I'm gonna go ahead and say that Subban in Detroit would already be an all star. Like most other good players, life got sucked out of him slowly but surely by the great Jacques Martin, and his unilingual anglo loser clone RC.
The worst top six forward is without a doubt Plekanec. This guy has absolutely no skill. He is a third line WINGER at best....IMHO.
Yes he works hard, yes he is a good penalty killer, but I am sick and tired of watching this guy shot on almost every two-on-ones, and taking wrist shots from the point. He is awful.
Also, ever notice that Cammalleri, Gionta, Cole, Kostitsyn all look out of place when playing with Pleks? This is very obvious to me.
Oh well, another day, another Habs drama.
But yet Plekanec has lead the team in points for how many seasons now? He has 5 straight 20+ goal seasons for the Habs. Plekanec is by far the best player we have on the team.....the problem is, the coaching has used Plekanec as a defensive forward and it takes away from his offensive game.
Cammalleri and Kostitsyn have both had success with Pleks centering them.
It sounds to me that you don't watch too many Hab games if you think Pleks is the worst top 6 player on the team!!
Well some do get it. I keep asking for a change of philosophy for how many years now? Brad Marchand would play like Bambi if he played with us.
The most incredible thing for me is that that philosophy clearly didn't improve with Gainey on board. A Gainey who saw the kind of mix you needed to win. A Gainey who was actually HIMSELF a great mix of all kinds of players. A Gainey who actually PLAYED in teams with the greatest of mix possible.
But I tell you what the problem is. It's called surfing on your success and having low expectations. For years now, we keep aiming for "making the playoffs". And you keep hearing the organization saying that we didn't need to get bigger and tougher, 'cause at one point, we kept beating the Bruins who at that time were already bigger and tougher. Yet, they didn,t take 2 things into consideration. First, Bruins IMPROVED their skill level. Which OF COURSE is needed whenever you have a gritty and bigger team. You still need talent. And then, the Habs just forgot that it's all about confidence. Bruins had this loser mentality against us. But then things change, and they don't anymore. Yet, we STILL have the same mentality of puck possession supposed speed and we will win thanks to our goalie and PP. Our mentality didn't change and didn't adapt. By the way, for people who keeps bringing SPEED as our main asset and what differentiate our team from the others....sorry, but like the Habs, you also have to wake up. People should just watch hockey. There are plenty of fast teams out there and even faster than our team.
But then, how can we change mentality with that management? You just can't. Time to change. Yet, people, even wit new management, can't expect a change in one second. Kaberle, Gomez and Co, shouldn't be movable. And you can't bury everybody in the minors. But they will have to make moves to make their point understood.
When Julien was hired in Boston he said one thing. We need to be tougher to play against, we need to play the style that Boston is all about. And so they did, with the result we know. Time for our management to REALLY make some statements. And now stupid "we'll work harder" empty phrases....
When I say Camille is soft...he avoids all physical situations. You do not need to be the Boston Bruins to play an engaged game. wow the excuses are incredible on this board.
The worst top six forward is without a doubt Plekanec. This guy has absolutely no skill. He is a third line WINGER at best....IMHO.
Yes he works hard, yes he is a good penalty killer, but I am sick and tired of watching this guy shot on almost every two-on-ones, and taking wrist shots from the point. He is awful.
Also, ever notice that Cammalleri, Gionta, Cole, Kostitsyn all look out of place when playing with Pleks? This is very obvious to me.
Like most other good players, life got sucked out of him slowly but surely by the great Jacques Martin, and his unilingual anglo loser clone RC.
I was nodding in approval until I saw the bolded statement. Jacques sucked in a lot of ways but RC has nothing to do with it. RC steps in a terrible situation, with a team built in the spirit of Jacques, with a stupid language debate, **** politicians and a god-damned protest messing about with a frustrated team and what do you expect?
RC is nothing like Jacques. Nothing at all. RC is one of the brightest coaching prospects and he deserves his fair shake.
How much shooting has Cammy done on the PP versus 5-on-5?
I wonder if his lack of production isn't due to overemphasizing the point shot with traffic, which is sort of what he's pointing at. Given the Habs' lack of results, a change of tactics may not be wholly inappropriate.
It doesn't matter where the shots come from, only that they come, remember, your rules, not mine, if the volume is there, it will turn around, hahaha.
just to note: Cammy wasn't soft here either. Hindsight is fuzzy sometimes. He played like a warrior in his first two seasons. His style of play this year is overtly less "intense". He tries to anticipate where the loose puck will be rather than fight for it. Also his playmaking skills have decreased. He used to be great with pleks cuz their give and go was tape to tape. Cammy has the potential not to be soft and I thought it was this year that we were going to see him the LEAST softest after all the hype about his regimen. He's just off his game, intrinsically he is not a soft player, this year he's just playing that way.
When I say Camille is soft...he avoids all physical situations. You do not need to be the Boston Bruins to play an engaged game. wow the excuses are incredible on this board.
What excuses? I'm not Cammalleri biggest fan for starters and I obviously know that you do not need to be Boston to be engaged. Not sure the point you're trying to make here.
My point was that the way the team is build, does make everybody more on their heels than on their toes. And it's not an excuse, it's a fact. Yet, the whole team are satisfied with that way of playing. Maybe if they would be taking everything in their whole hands, we would be able to be engaged. So the players themselves are responsible for it. But whether it's Boston, St-Louis or name 15 more teams if you want, you will become more engaged when the team is actually playing that way. Surely when a player is like that and belives in it, he will be a leader and show the way. But Cammy isn't. And he needs other to lead the way. We don't have that.
If this is your definition of excellent........... Cammalleri is averaging a point for every 32 minutes of ES play.
Going purely by 5-on-5, and no need to do the math because it's on behindthenet.ca:
Cammy: 2.03 / 60 5-on-5
DD: 2.00
Cole: 2.08
Plekanec: 2.07
2.00 is actually pretty typical of first-line producers. Moreover, it's actually fairly typical of Cammy, who historically has been more of a PP producer.
You also have to factor in that the Habs spent most of the season giving everyone (and especially Plekanec and Cammy's line) the toughest opposition so as to shelter DD. In the circumstances, Cammalleri is doing quite well 5-on-5.
I was nodding in approval until I saw the bolded statement. Jacques sucked in a lot of ways but RC has nothing to do with it. RC steps in a terrible situation, with a team built in the spirit of Jacques, with a stupid language debate, **** politicians and a god-damned protest messing about with a frustrated team and what do you expect?
RC is nothing like Jacques. Nothing at all. RC is one of the brightest coaching prospects and he deserves his fair shake.
RC is just another ex-senator loser like Jacques and Pierre. He's shown me nothing exceptional so far except being the wrong guy in the wrong situation.
The first sign he is an idiot was when he got hired he said (paraphrased) nothing would change and things would be more or less the same as under Martin.
I chalked it up to a guy who had not had much time to prepare but nothing since has given me any reason to believe the guy is smart.
Nothing wrong with what he is saying ! Does t hurt to hear what everyone is thinking. management is horrible and the ice time is the *****. Guys like Darche shouldnt be getting Cammys ice time. This whole thing is ****ed up. Its alright we will trade him to Toronto where he will go on to score 30 goals a season with the Leafs.
I think that a lot of people see things differently. He wasn't saying that they are losers. He was saying is that they are playing like a team afraid to lose and it's translating into losses. He goes on to say that he's been on a lot of different teams and when your attitude is to play every game like you can win it as opposed to if you lose too many we won't make the play-offs, your game will improve and the attidue alone can lead to wins. He stresses that even if you make a mistake and a player like Malkin or Ovechkin does something good, don't think "Crap, we can lose!" Instead focus on your next play and "Who cares, we can win against any team!"
Cunneyworth seems like an alright guy to me. But let's be real, he was given his first NHL coaching job on the Titanic. He's under a lot of stress and might be going about some things the wrong way because he might be into panic mode a little. He's human, and humans are expected to bend a little under pressure no matter who you are. He's trying to get a team with little identity to turn their game around halfway through the season with a lot of vets injured. He also has to carry the extra weight the media and fans are putting on him and the team because he can't speak French already. So Cunneyworth might be doing good things with some issues and working overtime to change the system at a rate the team can execute with little practices, but he might not be doing such a great job with the attitude side of things. Which again is only understandable. Cunneyworth is in a position very little people have ever been in.
So let's not dump too much on Cammy for speaking his mind. He wants to win too.. He didn't sign in Montreal to be told, "Ok this is the thing, If we lose more that X games till the end of the season, we won't make the play-offs. So let's go out there tonight and limit the mistakes OK guys!?" He chose to come here.. He had offers elsewhere. I'd feel the same in his shoes. Martin's system was always, "You make a mistake, you sit for the period." Cunneyworth might be using the same mindset and god forbid if he is, I'm not happy either. If I was any player in any room, I would rather hear the following, "Ok so they scored a goal. That's what happens in hockey, goals are scored. But we are a talented guys too and we'll just score one more than them. Go out there and show them who's boss!!"
Anyways, I just feel bad Cammy has to go out and say it in the first place. I'm assuming he's spoken to management and they just blew him off and that's why he's upset now and talking to the press about it. But I could me wrong. But again, If I was a player who sat and listens to management worry about losing and see fear in the players eyes when they make a mistake or get scored on and wanted to help turn the season around, I'd be vocal too..
And his ice time? I'll admit that he isn't having a very good season, but I'll say this in his defense. No team can win if you roll all 4 lines equally. I've never seen it and if you can give me an example of an offensive team playing every forward 12-15 min a game I'll eat crow.
To win games you need goals. On any given night you have to play your top 6 more minutes than your bottom 6 unless you are on the penalty kill all night. So in that case, I'll agree with Cammy. How can he score 30-40 goals like he did in the past when his ice time is reduced by 30%????
But yet Plekanec has lead the team in points for how many seasons now? He has 5 straight 20+ goal seasons for the Habs. Plekanec is by far the best player we have on the team.....the problem is, the coaching has used Plekanec as a defensive forward and it takes away from his offensive game.
Cammalleri and Kostitsyn have both had success with Pleks centering them.
It sounds to me that you don't watch too many Hab games if you think Pleks is the worst top 6 player on the team!!
But yet Plekanec has lead the team in points for how many seasons now? He has 5 straight 20+ goal seasons for the Habs. Plekanec is by far the best player we have on the team.....the problem is, the coaching has used Plekanec as a defensive forward and it takes away from his offensive game.
Cammalleri and Kostitsyn have both had success with Pleks centering them.
It sounds to me that you don't watch too many Hab games if you think Pleks is the worst top 6 player on the team!!
Sorry if he is your favorite player. I like him too, but never on the top two lines. I watch the games, I see what he does and I really and honestly think he is far overrated. Way too much ice time. That is my opinion. To me, he is starting to look like Gomez. Lost in the defensive zone and zero offensive ability. Now in all fairness, I will say that this is the worst I've seen him play.....and frankly, it might be because of what the coaches tell him to do. Net, net, right now, I feel is is awful....and believe me, I wish this wasnt the case.
Going purely by 5-on-5, and no need to do the math because it's on behindthenet.ca:
Cammy: 2.03 / 60 5-on-5
DD: 2.00
Cole: 2.08
Plekanec: 2.07
2.00 is actually pretty typical of first-line producers. Moreover, it's actually fairly typical of Cammy, who historically has been more of a PP producer.
You also have to factor in that the Habs spent most of the season giving everyone (and especially Plekanec and Cammy's line) the toughest opposition so as to shelter DD. In the circumstances, Cammalleri is doing quite well 5-on-5.
Not sure why you keep mentioning the "sheltering" of DD. Pleks and Cammy are paid to get the toughest opposition. They are players who are supposed to take the heavy stuff while DD is still a pretty young guy out there. So okay they don't benefit from a solid 2nd centerman behind them. But I would not count on them, as vet players as they are, with the money that they are making to be relieved from heavy duty when this is probably what we are expecting from them.
Credit to one of my workmate
