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Blues 2012 amateur draft -- Jordan Schmaltz 1st Round Pick

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Old
06-18-2012, 05:44 PM
  #251
sdaltons
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Not for me. His skating is terrible, and while it can be worked on, it would need drastic improvements. He is a big guy, but he doesn't really use his size, or know how to effectively. I agree with letmesleep, he'll probably be taken in the late 3rd or 4th round because some scouts will just love the fact it is such a big body with soft hands.
thanks. the terrible skating thing is the type of response i was looking for. the numbers are awfully intriguing though.

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06-18-2012, 07:58 PM
  #252
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Will be interesting to see tomorrow's mock draft. I'd be pissed if the Blues took a goalie in the first round, as that's almost always foolish, but as far as pure BPA McKenzie's 21-30 is:

21. Finn
22. Skjei
23. Matteau
24. Vasilevski
25. Subban
26. Matheson
27. Collberg
28. Laughton
29. Pearson
30. Di Giuseppe

(Kerdiles is 40th.)

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06-18-2012, 08:28 PM
  #253
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Assuming no trades, based off McKenzie's list, I'm thinking the Blues come away with one of:

Sebastien Collberg
Scott Laughton
Ludvig Bystrom
Mark Jankowski

There's a lot of talent after 25 according to McKenzie's list.

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06-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Rattie straight up for the #14 overall makes sense, if there is someone available that we are really high on. There is no need for us to be adding our first there though, his stock has risen significantly in the year since he was drafted. Should work for Calgary in the sense that they'll know all about Rattie and having a guy a year closer to NHL action is better for them.
The only way I'd make that deal, or trade the 25th + Rattie, is if Zemgus Girgensons was still on the board at #14.

Girgensons is the only player who projects to be reasonably available in the 10-15 range, for whom I would trade up in order to draft.

Someone asked earlier about trading up for Koekkoek if he's still there at #21 or #22. My answer is, I don't think I'd trade a first and a second in this year's draft to move up four spots, and I'm "iffy" on Koekkoek anyway. There are plenty of other defensemen who have considerable upside and who project to be available in that range, as opposed to spending assets to move up a handful of spots and draft a guy who suffered a serious injury this year.

I say let someone else take the risk that Koekkoek will completely recover and get all of his game back; the Blues should have other targets.

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06-18-2012, 10:43 PM
  #255
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The only way I'd make that deal, or trade the 25th + Rattie, is if Zemgus Girgensons was still on the board at #14.

Girgensons is the only player who projects to be reasonably available in the 10-15 range, for whom I would trade up in order to draft.

Someone asked earlier about trading up for Koekkoek if he's still there at #21 or #22. My answer is, I don't think I'd trade a first and a second in this year's draft to move up four spots, and I'm "iffy" on Koekkoek anyway. There are plenty of other defensemen who have considerable upside and who project to be available in that range, as opposed to spending assets to move up a handful of spots and draft a guy who suffered a serious injury this year.

I say let someone else take the risk that Koekkoek will completely recover and get all of his game back; the Blues should have other targets.
The only way the Blues trade Rattie and a 1st is to move up into the top 7 or higher. Rattie is a GREAT prospect who is a year closer to the NHL than this years draft class (most at least). If Rattie were available this year, he would be a high 1st in his own right. That's a lot to give up just to move up ten spots. Take the Runblad trade, he alone got us the number the #16 pick, Rattie would at least be able to land us that spot, then we would be adding a 1st to go along with him, I would only move that package if the top 7 are available at a lower spot than expected, like if Reinhart were to fall or if Grigs took a tumble in the draft. I guess I'm saying I would only move Rattie and a 1st in an extraordinary circumstance. Moving up 10-12 spots isn't that situation.

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06-19-2012, 08:33 PM
  #256
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Craig Button has us picking Henrik Samuelsson in the TSN mock draft.

They also think Grigorenko falls to 17. If he is still available in the middle of the first, I'll be furious if we don't move up to get him. He is worth the risk, size, good 2-way player and will likely be NHL ready next year.

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06-19-2012, 11:32 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Craig Button has us picking Henrik Samuelsson in the TSN mock draft.

They also think Grigorenko falls to 17. If he is still available in the middle of the first, I'll be furious if we don't move up to get him. He is worth the risk, size, good 2-way player and will likely be NHL ready next year.
You realize it's not exactly easy to move up in the draft, right? Army can try as hard as he can to move up but that's no guarantee he's going to find another GM willing to move down to 25...especially when there's likely many other GM's also trying to move up.

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06-20-2012, 12:07 AM
  #258
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This is one of those drafts where there's multiple attractive options. Even a home run, big center attempt at a player like Jankowski would be legit. They should be able to get a solid player. Lindholm definitely has that late rising feel. Though someone surprising will still be on the board I really doubt it'll be him.

I also don't particularly covet anyone in this draft enough to forfeit assets to move up. Just pick a strong player at 25 and leave it at that.

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06-20-2012, 06:05 AM
  #259
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This is one of those drafts where there's multiple attractive options. Even a home run, big center attempt at a player like Jankowski would be legit. They should be able to get a solid player. Lindholm definitely has that late rising feel. Though someone surprising will still be on the board I really doubt it'll be him.

I also don't particularly covet anyone in this draft enough to forfeit assets to move up. Just pick a strong player at 25 and leave it at that.
Personally, I would move up 5 spots if a couple of guys were still on the board. We have 2 3rds and I would love to move up. If not, maybe move those two 3rd to get back into the last 2nd round.

I also think Lindholm will be gone in the top 15. Too bad really, would have enjoyed following him in the Note.

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06-20-2012, 09:18 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
You realize it's not exactly easy to move up in the draft, right? Army can try as hard as he can to move up but that's no guarantee he's going to find another GM willing to move down to 25...especially when there's likely many other GM's also trying to move up.
That depends on what you are willing to give up. Of course it isn't easy, but if you are willing to pay a premium price for something outside the top 10 then teams will listen.

I really don't see Grigorenko falling outside the top 10, but if he does then we have to ask how often we are going to be able to get a big, 2-way centre that could make the team next season and has the potential to be a top 15 centre in the League? That, IMO, is worth paying Rattie + our 1st to get.

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06-20-2012, 11:44 AM
  #261
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That depends on what you are willing to give up. Of course it isn't easy, but if you are willing to pay a premium price for something outside the top 10 then teams will listen.

I really don't see Grigorenko falling outside the top 10, but if he does then we have to ask how often we are going to be able to get a big, 2-way centre that could make the team next season and has the potential to be a top 15 centre in the League? That, IMO, is worth paying Rattie + our 1st to get.
I've heard of many times where offers to move up that were well above fair value were turned down. Sometimes, teams just get fixated on a guy and simply won't budge.

The reason why Grigorenko is falling in rankings and might tumble down the draft is because he takes a lot of shifts and games off as well as the Russian factor (which is more of a factor for him because he might struggle in his develop due to his inconsistency which may lead to him eventually returning home if he's not an instant NHL success). I personally wouldn't give up Rattie and the 25th for Grigorenko.

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06-20-2012, 12:39 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I've heard of many times where offers to move up that were well above fair value were turned down. Sometimes, teams just get fixated on a guy and simply won't budge.

The reason why Grigorenko is falling in rankings and might tumble down the draft is because he takes a lot of shifts and games off as well as the Russian factor (which is more of a factor for him because he might struggle in his develop due to his inconsistency which may lead to him eventually returning home if he's not an instant NHL success). I personally wouldn't give up Rattie and the 25th for Grigorenko.
I don't have the quote but Grigorenko talked about being asked about not always giving 100%. He would asked them how many games they watched him play and normally the response is they never saw him play in person.

If he was Canadian I think he would be considered that top pick easily.


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06-20-2012, 12:54 PM
  #263
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I don't have the quote but Grigorenko talked about being asked about not always giving 100%. He would asked them how many games they watched him play and normally the response is they never saw him play in person.

If he was Canadian I think he would be considered that top pick easily.
It would make sense that reporters wouldn't have watched him at much at all, if any. Scouts have though and that's where the info is coming from and why the reporters are asking him about it. Yakupov is Russian. Why aren't there consistency concerns about him?

I'm not saying that I'm an expert on Grigirenko or anything but I'd certainly be a bit wary. He doesn't seem to be as safe of a pick as Tarasenko was for example. That said, I trust the Blues scouts as they've shown that they always do their homework on players so if they end up with this kid (which is quite unlikely give where they're picking) or another kid this board might question, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

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06-20-2012, 01:49 PM
  #264
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It would make sense that reporters wouldn't have watched him at much at all, if any. Scouts have though and that's where the info is coming from and why the reporters are asking him about it. Yakupov is Russian. Why aren't there consistency concerns about him?

I'm not saying that I'm an expert on Grigirenko or anything but I'd certainly be a bit wary. He doesn't seem to be as safe of a pick as Tarasenko was for example. That said, I trust the Blues scouts as they've shown that they always do their homework on players so if they end up with this kid (which is quite unlikely give where they're picking) or another kid this board might question, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
This was posted by a Montreal fan about him in the prospect forums. Kind of mocking people who have him dropping. Having mono would really explain why people think he takes shifts off.

Hurts Ankle and keeps playing = He quit on his team
Gets 10p in 11 GP in the playoffs = Disappeared in the playoffs
Plays through Mono in the playoffs = Lazy Russian

I think when all is said and done he could be the best player in the whole draft. If he falls someone could get a real steal like some of the players in the past that have fell.


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06-20-2012, 06:43 PM
  #265
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If they don't grab a Scott Laughton type in the first round then Brady Vail seems like a guy who has a lot of assets that the Blues covet in terms of character, compete level, hockey sense, and makeup when it comes to the 56th pick. He's ranked 58th by the Hockey News.

As for Jankowski, the Blues have shown in the past that they aren't afraid to use a high pick to draft a player that didn't play against high caliber competition. If they project the upside to be huge they'll take a chance. They've drafted their fair share of Minnesota High Schoolers with Oshie being the primary example.

Looks like next year he'll either play in Dubuque of the USHL (Gergensons/Matheson's team this year) and then go to Providence or he'll go the major junior route with Saginaw owning his rights.

Either way, he's the definition of a project.

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06-20-2012, 07:32 PM
  #266
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Matheson wouldn't be a bad pick either. One of you guys mentioned him awhile back. There are a good 6-7 guys I'd be satisfied with in that range.

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06-20-2012, 07:52 PM
  #267
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That was yours truly.

Matheson would be a very good pick.

He's a little under the radar b/c he didn't have a very noteworthy Ivan Hlinka and played solely in the USHL throughout the year. (Gergensons got the exposure of playing in the World Juniors for Latvia).

The Hockey News writeup wasn't very accurate as he struggled early in the season in his transition to the USHL from Quebec Midget hockey but got much, much better as the season went along especially in his own zone.

THN pretty much said the opposite...that he got worse as the season went along.

His puck skills, offensive instincts, and character are off the charts.

Going to a great college for defenseman in BC so his development should proceed very smoothly once drafted.

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06-20-2012, 11:33 PM
  #268
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I just checked my guide on Uverse and it says the NBC Sports Network will air the draft Friday from 6:00pm til 8:00pm, and then the US Olympic Track and Field Trials go from 8:00pm to 10:00pm. The draft usually last around 4 hrs, so does anyone know if they changed the format this year, or is there something that I'm not aware of?

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06-21-2012, 01:01 AM
  #269
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I say we pick Tomas Hertl.

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06-21-2012, 01:21 AM
  #270
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I just checked my guide on Uverse and it says the NBC Sports Network will air the draft Friday from 6:00pm til 8:00pm, and then the US Olympic Track and Field Trials go from 8:00pm to 10:00pm. The draft usually last around 4 hrs, so does anyone know if they changed the format this year, or is there something that I'm not aware of?
The draft is being held on Friday and Saturday.

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06-21-2012, 01:38 AM
  #271
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I just checked my guide on Uverse and it says the NBC Sports Network will air the draft Friday from 6:00pm til 8:00pm, and then the US Olympic Track and Field Trials go from 8:00pm to 10:00pm. The draft usually last around 4 hrs, so does anyone know if they changed the format this year, or is there something that I'm not aware of?
I thought that there was usually at least 3 hours scheduled for first round, I wonder why it's less this year. I'm sure if the draft goes over the 2 hours it'll just overlap into the next timeslot.

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06-21-2012, 07:06 AM
  #272
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I thought that there was usually at least 3 hours scheduled for first round, I wonder why it's less this year. I'm sure if the draft goes over the 2 hours it'll just overlap into the next timeslot.
Yeah, the 1st round is usually at least 3 hrs long, so I wasn't sure if that is just an error by Uverse or if the time allotted for each team to pick may have changed.

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06-21-2012, 07:08 AM
  #273
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I say we pick Tomas Hertl.
Hertl is the guy that I've hoped the Blues would come away with, but I just don't see it happening unless we move up in the draft to get him.

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06-21-2012, 08:34 AM
  #274
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I'm starting to like Tanner Pearson a lot

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06-21-2012, 09:00 AM
  #275
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I say we pick Tomas Hertl.
I agree, I really hope the Blues get lucky and he falls into the Blues lap, but it is unlikely. He would be a great fit in the prospect pool, a good lanky center with room to grow. He's a good playmaking center, he can score, and he's already playing in a mans league AND producing. If not him then Laughton would be a great selection too.

I really like Redline for their mocks but they have Scott Laughton going at 10, so he may get taken much higher than some people are expecting, beside Reinhart, he may be the big draft day riser.

I hope the Blues take BPA, hopefully it's a center, but Army squared will do a great job and should still be able to land a solid player with 25. The Rattie pick has worked out so far, and I believe that this draft is deeper than people are giving it credit for. Alot of these high 1st rounders got injured this year and it took the shine off of this draft class. Last year this was considered to be a great draft full of top 4 dman and strong 10-12 forwards.

I hope the Blues take a gamble and draft Ebert in the 2nd, he's fallen like a rock, but last year he was expected to go in the top 15. The talent is there, he just may take a while to fully reach it.

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