With Jackman and coliacavo having the potential to leave this off-season, I think we need a good left handed dman, even if it takes longer for them to develop, Ian Cole is not a long term replacement IMO
I don't get why people don't like Cole. What are you expectations for the kid anyway?
I don't get why people don't like Cole. What are you expectations for the kid anyway?
idk, he made some bad plays against Carolina, but I dont think he was playing with petro, who he seems to flourish with, but I guess all that is expected with young developing dmen, and it may just be me because Id consider myself a poor evaluater of defensmen
I don't get why people don't like Cole. What are you expectations for the kid anyway?
He's made some pretty bad mistakes out there but that's to be expected with any young D-man. We even see it time to time with Petro still. I do agree with you though, I don't understand the hate for Cole. He's had some really solid games filling in. It can take years for young dmen to fully develop. Have to be patient.
I saw D-man Mike Matheson in person last week and he's really improved since early in the season. Good frame, really good offensive ability, and a terrific skater who loves to rush the puck. Like most rookies and despite the hype (one of the best Quebec midget players last season and not going Major Junior), he was a little lost in his own zone at the beginning of the USHL season but he plays on one of the better teams in the league and for a highly regarded coaching staff and has really improved in that regard.
He's a left-hand shot who will be a one and done USHL player as he's heading to Boston College next season. Seems like a really good kid from the articles I've read from a good family who always wanted him to go the college route.
EDIT: And I see he was just named the USHL's Defensive Player of the Week.
He's been slotted in that 25-30 range most of the year though if anything he seems to be falling a little.
Zemgus Gergensons also returned after missing 5 games with an injury for that same Dubuque team (their 2-10-2 when he's out of the lineup this season). He's my favorite forward outside of the big 4 (Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg, Galchenyuk) as I've said for a while.
He has good puck skills but I just love this kid's competitive fire. He's just "hard." Everything he does is all out, he's mean, and is just a bear to play against. And he's their Captain this season.
I've seen him ranked as low as 22 but more than likely he'll go mid-round so it's more than likely he'll be long gone in the late stages of the first. He played on the wing in the game I saw but that was due to other injuries. He's a natural center.
He's committed to Vermont but the WHL's Kelowna Rockets are after him hard. His future probably rests on what the NHL team that drafts him feels is best for his development...much like JT Miller last season.
Last edited by TheOrganist: 03-20-2012 at 12:17 PM.
idk, he made some bad plays against Carolina, but I dont think he was playing with petro, who he seems to flourish with, but I guess all that is expected with young developing dmen, and it may just be me because Id consider myself a poor evaluater of defensmen
We've been blessed with the developments of Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Even Polak was a quick developer in his role. When Jackman was a rookie, he was able to play with MacInnis. Those are the exceptions not the rule.
Physical defensemen are going to get penalties when they first come into the league. If he is still getting dumb penalties next season and the season after, then I will be worried, but he just has to learn and adapt. It's not going to happen overnight, so we shouldn't get all over him for the penalties. The offensive production will always be decent, but nothing special with him, so I hope people aren't expecting anything crazy in that area. He has shown promise for being a mobile, physical shutdown defenseman.
His current "deficiencies" are what to be expected for young, developing defensemen of his playing style. None of areas that need improvement are anything that can't be improved upon, and none are all that worrisome. He has shown the ability to develop into what he is expected to become, which is the important thing.
I'm not saying that he is great right now, but he is performing up to what he is expected to.
We've been blessed with the developments of Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. Even Polak was a quick developer in his role. When Jackman was a rookie, he was able to play with MacInnis. Those are the exceptions not the rule.
Physical defensemen are going to get penalties when they first come into the league. If he is still getting dumb penalties next season and the season after, then I will be worried, but he just has to learn and adapt. It's not going to happen overnight, so we shouldn't get all over him for the penalties. The offensive production will always be decent, but nothing special with him, so I hope people aren't expecting anything crazy in that area. He has shown promise for being a mobile, physical shutdown defenseman.
His current "deficiencies" are what to be expected for young, developing defensemen of his playing style. None of areas that need improvement are anything that can't be improved upon, and none are all that worrisome. He has shown the ability to develop into what he is expected to become, which is the important thing.
I'm not saying that he is great right now, but he is performing up to what he is expected to.
Polak earned his strypes with 2 years in the AHL. And it took him a good season or two in the NHL to be the punishing player he has become.
Polak earned his strypes with 2 years in the AHL. And it took him a good season or two in the NHL to be the punishing player he has become.
I remember when he made his debut at age 20, and looked pretty good. Cole and Polak will have similar developments, with Cole having more offensive upside, and Polak being stronger. Both got cups of coffee in their first 2 seasons, both at young ages. Then Polak became part of the full-time roster the season after, like Cole will next season.
Could maybe fall to Blues in the second round. LHD
33. D, Adam Pelech, 6-3, 215 lbs. Erie Otters OHL, 65 GP, 1 G, 12 A, 13 PTS
He has a huge frame which makes him a very intimidating player to the opposition, he can rush the puck, makes accurate, quick, crisp passes out of the zone, has a long stick that gives him great range, and is a strong skater. There isn’t much not to like about the young thoroughbred, who’s older brother Matt Pelech was a first round pick of the Calgary Flames in 2005, and their middle brother Mike was drafted by the Los Angeles Kings. It doesn’t hurt they are nephews of Vancouver Canucks general manager Mike Gillis either, as the bloodlines run deep in the Pelech family.
At the moment, Anaheim's got the 6th overall pick, so owning their 3d rounder will also be a high pick in that round. Should still be some decent players available there.
I don't know, the trade does actually sound enticing, I mean, they still do get a 1st round pick and an NHL starter who still can score in the 20s and upwards, I don't know, it might be something they would look at
Here's the Blues pick in this mock Sounds like a very good choice who could fall to the Blues.
29. Henrik Samuelsson, C, Edmonton Oil Kings, WHL, 6'2" 205
THW’s Dustin Twin sums up Henrik, son of Ulf, nicely: “He is not an absolutely offensive dynamo, nor is he just a big grinding forward who is hell on defensemen. He is one of those rare players who has a unique mix of size and skill that can play a variety of roles for teams. He is good enough to play with the top guys on his team offensively while being able to disrupt and check the other teams top guys in all three zones. Everything he has done in Edmonton hints at him having what it takes to be this type of player for an NHL team. Henrik has a great one-time shot and can score goals on the PP and set-up offense as well as on the rush. He has really good puck skills for a bigger player and is great at finding open teammates. In the corners and in front of the net Henrik is very hard to handle for opposing players because of his size but also because he is great with the puck in tight and has a number of go-to moves that he uses to create space for himself in those areas. “
I don't get why people don't like Cole. What are you expectations for the kid anyway?
To make the team soon after the draft. If you go back and watch the draft special from that year (no idea where to find it, so good luck) I seem to remember that the Blues really liked that Cole had an NHL-ready body.
(I also remember one scout being very pro-Perron, and one being fairly anti-Perron, they picked him because with three first rounders the Blues felt they could take the risk.)
That, and with the recent first round success the Blues have had, Cole is the one that stands out as not doing much. Oshie, Berglund, Perron all have panned out. Eller looked decent and got us Halak. Rundblad got us Tarasenko, and he and Schwartz are very highly touted prospects.
Now don't get me wrong. Ian Cole is no Shawn Belle. BUT since the rebuild began with drafting EJ number one overall, Cole has shown the least of all of the first round picks. Throw in that Nikitin and Polak were drafted in the fifth and sixth rounds, its a bit understandable why the average fan is disappointed in Ian Cole.
Here's the Blues pick in this mock Sounds like a very good choice who could fall to the Blues.
29. Henrik Samuelsson, C, Edmonton Oil Kings, WHL, 6'2" 205
THW’s Dustin Twin sums up Henrik, son of Ulf, nicely: “He is not an absolutely offensive dynamo, nor is he just a big grinding forward who is hell on defensemen. He is one of those rare players who has a unique mix of size and skill that can play a variety of roles for teams. He is good enough to play with the top guys on his team offensively while being able to disrupt and check the other teams top guys in all three zones. Everything he has done in Edmonton hints at him having what it takes to be this type of player for an NHL team. Henrik has a great one-time shot and can score goals on the PP and set-up offense as well as on the rush. He has really good puck skills for a bigger player and is great at finding open teammates. In the corners and in front of the net Henrik is very hard to handle for opposing players because of his size but also because he is great with the puck in tight and has a number of go-to moves that he uses to create space for himself in those areas. “
Hmmm, sounds like Backes, Oshie, and Steen. Should fit right in with the type of player that the Blues love. Well-rounded, two-way players that do a little bit of everything. I like.
I'm glad he is a center. I want the Blues to draft a center or a defenseman.
Hmmm, sounds like Backes, Oshie, and Steen. Should fit right in with the type of player that the Blues love. Well-rounded, two-way players that do a little bit of everything. I like.
I'm glad he is a center. I want the Blues to draft a center or a defenseman.
That report on Samuelsson sounds a lot like Wannstrom to me. Samuelsson's already playing in N.A. though. Sounds like a good two-way player.
Mock drafts mean virtually nothing though, especially for a team that's going to be picking late (hopefully 30th overall!) and this far from the drafts. I think after the first 10 picks or so, mocks are completely useless.
To make the team soon after the draft. If you go back and watch the draft special from that year (no idea where to find it, so good luck) I seem to remember that the Blues really liked that Cole had an NHL-ready body.
(I also remember one scout being very pro-Perron, and one being fairly anti-Perron, they picked him because with three first rounders the Blues felt they could take the risk.)
That, and with the recent first round success the Blues have had, Cole is the one that stands out as not doing much. Oshie, Berglund, Perron all have panned out. Eller looked decent and got us Halak. Rundblad got us Tarasenko, and he and Schwartz are very highly touted prospects.
Now don't get me wrong. Ian Cole is no Shawn Belle. BUT since the rebuild began with drafting EJ number one overall, Cole has shown the least of all of the first round picks. Throw in that Nikitin and Polak were drafted in the fifth and sixth rounds, its a bit understandable why the average fan is disappointed in Ian Cole.
I'm not disappointed in Cole at all and do haven't gotten the impression that a lot of other fans are disappointed in him either.
He's a d-man and they usually take quite a while to develop. Petro is a freak and Shatty and EJ are also way above the curve too. Cole's simply not at their level and while he's basically NHL ready IMO, there's not much room for him at all in STL right now, especially in the left side. He could've had an NHL sized body years ago (I'll never forget Jarmo saying "He's a maaaan!") but that doesn't mean he was anywhere near ready skill-wise and mentally. I think Cole is fine. He's in path to be a Jackman type d-man and that's pretty much been his projection since he was drafted.
Also, the scout who wanted to pick Perron was Bill Armstrong (now Director of Scouting) and the scout against drafting Perron was Mike Antonovich. I'll note that Oshie, Backes and Schwartz were primarily Antonovich picks though.
That report on Samuelsson sounds a lot like Wannstrom to me. Samuelsson's already playing in N.A. though. Sounds like a good two-way player.
Mock drafts mean virtually nothing though, especially for a team that's going to be picking late (hopefully 30th overall!) and this far from the drafts. I think after the first 10 picks or so, mocks are completely useless.
Not very Wannstrom like. Samuelsson has been suspended three times in the WHL since coming over in January. He's very chippy apparently and 25 pounds bigger than Wannstrom.
1: Daniil Zharkov, LW, OHL - Big, 6'3" goal scorer who plays a decent all-around game with good hockey sense and great speed. He's Russian but plays in the OHL.
2: Michael Matheson, D, Canada: Offensive minded lefty defenseman. Somewhat like Shattenkirk in that he is smart and loves to move the puck up ice. Will need work on his defensive game but he isn't awful in his own end.
3: Tomas Hertl, C/LW, Czech Republic: Good sized center that produces. He looked great in the WJC and has the tools to become a good 2nd line forward.
1: Daniil Zharkov, LW, OHL - Big, 6'3" goal scorer who plays a decent all-around game with good hockey sense and great speed. He's Russian but plays in the OHL.
2: Michael Matheson, D, Canada: Offensive minded lefty defenseman. Somewhat like Shattenkirk in that he is smart and loves to move the puck up ice. Will need work on his defensive game but he isn't awful in his own end.
3: Tomas Hertl, C/LW, Czech Republic: Good sized center that produces. He looked great in the WJC and has the tools to become a good 2nd line forward.
I'm not disappointed in Cole at all and do haven't gotten the impression that a lot of other fans are disappointed in him either.
He's a d-man and they usually take quite a while to develop. Petro is a freak and Shatty and EJ are also way above the curve too. Cole's simply not at their level and while he's basically NHL ready IMO, there's not much room for him at all in STL right now, especially in the left side. He could've had an NHL sized body years ago (I'll never forget Jarmo saying "He's a maaaan!") but that doesn't mean he was anywhere near ready skill-wise and mentally. I think Cole is fine. He's in path to be a Jackman type d-man and that's pretty much been his projection since he was drafted.
Also, the scout who wanted to pick Perron was Bill Armstrong (now Director of Scouting) and the scout against drafting Perron was Mike Antonovich. I'll note that Oshie, Backes and Schwartz were primarily Antonovich picks though.
I'm not disappointed in Cole per se. I guess that draft special just made me have unreasonable expectations of how quickly Cole would be in the NHL. I'm just disappointed those expectations, no matter how unreasonable they may have been, have not been met.
If Cole came along after the lock out he would have played a regular shift since day one once he left ND. Just sayin. The Blues can afford to be patient.
He was 12-13-25 & +9 in 38 games for Slavia Prague this season, the second worst team in the League. Jaškin is on the same team and was 1-1-2 & -7 in 30 games. As I said earlier in the thread, Hertl is the player I really want but don't expect him to be available beyond the 20th pick.
Maybe the fact that players out of the Czech League haven't been drafted in the first round since 2006 might mean he drops a little further, but I'd be surprised.
