Who needs Ryan when we can put Rosey's smile on the wing with Staal?
Good idea. The opposing team will be distracted by Rosey's smile and leave Patty open for a backdoor play. But becaues Patty's such a nice guy and team player he'll dump it in the corner and go off on a line change. Gleason will respond to this by punching the goalie.
Trade LaRose. But take his teeth out so we can always have his smile.
Why would other GMs want him then? They want his nice smile, intangibles, compete level, and fan favoritism all at once. If you take away one piece, there's no point in trading him.
Just trying to think through it JR's way. Which then leads to JR wanting that nice smile, intangibles, compete level, and fan favoritism to stay on his team.
This is the last ill post on this part of the topic......even Gleason supporters on this board have said he is a #4 at best but believe he could be a good #4. So I dont get all the outrage. Even some of his detractors have stated that at best he is a #4. We agree!!!! Though some of us feel better about ripping a guy rather than just accepting that he isnt exactly what JR told us he was(which i think we all agree on)
WE ARE ALL SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING!!!
other than Totalkev who thinks Gleason is an AHLer and should die. (sarcasm)
This is the last ill post on this part of the topic......even Gleason supporters on this board have said he is a #4 at best but believe he could be a good #4. So I dont get all the outrage. Even some of his detractors have stated that at best he is a #4. We agree!!!! Though some of us feel better about ripping a guy rather than just accepting that he isnt exactly what JR told us he was(which i think we all agree on)
WE ARE ALL SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING!!!
other than Totalkev who thinks Gleason is an AHLer and should die. (sarcasm)
I'd hate if Gleason died (before we traded him).
Look, I don't dislike him any more than anyone. I've just seen through the delusion that's he's a shutdown defenseman for much longer than anyone, so I guess I'm upset we didn't trade him three years ago when he was a pending free agent. It's just a matter of time, not hate.
Look, I don't dislike him any more than anyone. I've just seen through the delusion that's he's a shutdown defenseman for much longer than anyone, so I guess I'm upset we didn't trade him three years ago when he was a pending free agent. It's just a matter of time, not hate.
He's just not THAT good. And there is probably at least 1 or 2 GMs out there who think the guy is better than he his...JR made that mistake too. JR jumped on the Gleason trade instead of being patient with Johnson. It was a mistake, and Gleason never panned out to be what some thought he projected to. Not the end of the world. The Canes just seem to have a knack for grabbing floundering d-men. Unfortunately, I think Gleason's career path will be similar to Commodore. He's struggled a few years, may have a good year, get another shot, etc. And some GM may even pay him $3.5-4 million, but that GM won't be named Rutherford. Forget about the few hundred fans who think he's the best d-man ever, trade him and move along.
Think about how bad our defense really is. Basically two rookies (I know McBain isn't technically a rookie), a guy who had trouble even sticking with an NHL roster (Harrison), a guy that a sh1tty Florida team couldn't wait to get rid of and even took Samsonov to get rid of him (Allen), a guy who the Canadiens couldn't wait to get rid of and even took Kaberle off our hands (Spacek) and Gleason.
Good news though. We have Joslin and Sanguinetti waiting in the wings.
EDIT: Not that our forward ranks are much better. A few years ago, who would have thunk that we'd have the likes of Patrick Dwyer, Jiri Tlusty, Andreas Nodl, Ponikarovsky and Samson in our top 9. Remember a few short years ago when guys like Doug Weight, Ray Whitney, and Matt Cullen were relegated to the 3rd line? My how times have changed.
Last edited by Boom Boom Anton: 01-11-2012 at 06:48 PM.
On defense we at least have good depth in terms of futures.
Ryan Murphy, Brian Dumoulin, Mark Alt, Austin Levi, Danny Biega, Keegan Lowe, Michal Jordan, Rasmus Rissanen, Tommi Kivisto. Even if only 1/3rd of those makes the league we're in good shape. Especially since we have Joni locked up for a few years, and Faulk and McBain are looking legit.
Up front we're actually worse off. Staal, Skinner, Sutter are legit long term. But out of possible top 6ers we only have Boychuk, Bowman, Dalpe, Rask, Terry, and Samson. Everyone else looks like a 3rd line type at best though at least in the case of Nash and Brett Sutter they're safe bets with what they've shown so far. Zero depth up front, and that needs to be the focus of our trades this deadline IMO. Problem is, we have a bunch of junk that's under contract beyond this season.
On defense we at least have good depth in terms of futures.
Ryan Murphy, Brian Dumoulin, Mark Ali, Austin Levi, Danny Biega, Keegan Lowe, Michal Jordan, Rasmus Rissanen, Tommi Kivisto. Even if only 1/3rd of those makes the league we're in good shape. Especially since we have Joni locked up for a few years, and Faulk and McBain are looking legit.
Up front we're actually worse off. Staal, Skinner, Sutter are legit long term. But out of possible top 6ers we only have Boychuk, Bowman, Dalpe, Rask, Terry, and Samson. Everyone else looks like a 3rd line type at best though at least in the case of Nash and Brett Sutter they're safe bets with what they've shown so far. Zero depth up front, and that needs to be the focus of our trades this deadline IMO. Problem is, we have a bunch of junk that's under contract beyond this season.
How many of those defensive prospects do you realistically think will be full time, solid NHL players though? Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm thinking 1/3rd is a stretch. I'm guessing Dumoulin has the best chance? Murphy's small size scares the **** out me. Other than that, those guys are kind of a long shot..no? I'd love for guys like Alt or Lowe to develop into a nasty, physical defenseman, but just not sure. I don't know enough about all of the guys you listed to be honest.
Funny, after drafting Sutter, Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman etc..and getting Osala and Nash.... a few years ago we were all convinced we were OK on the forward side, but weak defensively. Now the general consensus is the opposite.
Murphy is a pretty sure bet IMO. He might never live up to his billing as a potential stud offensive defenseman but his offensive game and skating will allow him to, at worst, be another Corvo.
Dumoulin is looking like a pretty safe best to at the worst be a #5/6 guy, with top 4 upside pretty easily.
Alt is a project. Could prove to be a good physical top 4 guy, could be a career AHLer.
Levi I think will be something of a #6 at worst. His skating is something that Borer and Carson never really had, and he has more of an edge then those two to be sure. He's already one of the best defensive dmen in the OHL. I know the same was said of Bellemore but again, Bellemore isn't nearly the skater that Borer or Carson were, yet alone that Levi is.
Beyond those 4, Biega or Lowe probably have the best chances. Biega simply because he's a physical freak and can likely adapt his game to be more of a stay at home guy. Lowe just plays a solid defensive game.
Murphy is a pretty sure bet IMO. He might never live up to his billing as a potential stud offensive defenseman but his offensive game and skating will allow him to, at worst, be another Corvo.
Dumoulin is looking like a pretty safe best to at the worst be a #5/6 guy, with top 4 upside pretty easily.
Alt is a project. Could prove to be a good physical top 4 guy, could be a career AHLer.
Levi I think will be something of a #6 at worst. His skating is something that Borer and Carson never really had, and he has more of an edge then those two to be sure. He's already one of the best defensive dmen in the OHL. I know the same was said of Bellemore but again, Bellemore isn't nearly the skater that Borer or Carson were, yet alone that Levi is.
Beyond those 4, Biega or Lowe probably have the best chances. Biega simply because he's a physical freak and can likely adapt his game to be more of a stay at home guy. Lowe just plays a solid defensive game.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm still somewhat skeptical of Murphy. Unless he bulks up, I'm worried about a 5'10 175lb guy playing defense in the NHL no matter what his skill is (Corvo is at 6' 200lbs). I know he's still young and can still put on pounds but we said the same thing about Sutter 4 years ago and he still hasn't added much weight. Until he shows some more size and strength, I'll remain skeptical. There are a few guys on the smaller side that have been successful NHL defensemen (Robidas is 5'11, 190, Campbell 5'11, 185), but they are the exception and not the rule and even they are bigger than Murphy. I really hope they don't rush this kid as I think he is a case where developing him slowly is the right approach.
Anyhow, even if only 2 of them end up being on the roster, that is still a good thing for Carolina having 4 homegrown defensemen (McBain, Faulk and 2 others).
I think Alt and Lowe have an advantage in that their fathers were professional athletes. They've been around a pro game and have seen what it takes to become a successful professional. Not saying they'll make it solely because of that, but I do think that gives them a leg up.
That was my line of thinking. If he can move the puck like Karlsson or Green, his size won't be a big problem. Granted, they're more like a 4th forward than anything, but still better than nothing.
We are so caught up in the minutiae of what "type" of game a guy plays, or which way he shoots, or how big he is, that we overlook the fact that there are huge differences in how good these guys are.
There's no recipe of a successful team. It's not like if we get two puck-moving defensemen who shoot left, one who shoots right, two defensive d-men (one lefty who plays the right side and one righty who plays the left side) and a stud No. 1 d-man who plays all situations, that we'd be guaranteed to have a first-rate defense. It doesn't work that way.
Right now, the Canes need to focus on upgrading the talent level. Guys who can make NHL-level decisions at NHL speed. Guys who can make -- and receive -- an NHL pass. Guys who put in NHL effort to improve and learn.
I don't think it matters one iota what position they play, which way they shoot, or what color hair they have. We just need more of 'em.
Since I didn't get my Gleason 2 cents in before the last thread got closed here it is now:
I'm a big Gleason fan, but he's played like **** for the last two years. However, I do feel on a different team, he can be a very good #4 shutdown guy for them. For whatever reason, he's lost that toughness he had/showed under Lavi.
I also believe there will be a few GMs in playoff position come deadline day who will want Gleason on their team.
Erik Karlsson is a midget and he, well, does anythIng need to be said about him?
That's fair. And I'm not saying Murphy won't be successful, just that small, successful, NHL defensemen are the exception rather than the rule and I remain skeptical. That's all. I hope Murphy does come in and do as well as guys like Karlsson, Robidas or Campbell and if he does, I'll be pleased. God knows the Canes lack guys with talent and hockey sense so it would be a breath of fresh air to have a guy that has that.
Re: Totalkev's comments. I agree 100% that the Canes need more guys with NHL talent and hockey sense (and that put forward the effort) and I am not trying to insinuate anything otherwise. My only concern with Murphy is will his "talent" translate to the NHL or will his size limit that. I'm not predicting either way, just that part of me is still skeptical.
I was always under the Rafalski comparison mindset myself. I was quite disappointed he didnt make the WJ team, as I wanted to see him play a few games to get a better idea of what I should be looking forward to.
As for his weight....at 18 I was 165....now I am 235....granted I am 6'4, but frames (shoulders) do widen and fill out as you go into your mid 20's.
I was always under the Rafalski comparison mindset myself. I was quite disappointed he didnt make the WJ team, as I wanted to see him play a few games to get a better idea of what I should be looking forward to.
As for his weight....at 18 I was 165....now I am 235....granted I am 6'4, but frames (shoulders) do widen and fill out as you go into your mid 20's.
A lot of Canadian fans are disappointed that he didn't get the nod the past two years now given the teams results.
And as someone in the 5'11-6' range myself, I went from 155 when I graduated HS to 195 by 23. Didn't even really change my diet, my frame just got bigger and I got stronger. Of course, I've gone up a bit more since then but that's another matter.
