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Black 'dumbfounded' by opinion that franchise isn't better off now than last Feb

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01-12-2012, 09:24 AM
  #1
puckish66
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Black 'dumbfounded' by opinion that franchise isn't better off now than last Feb

Ted said it on WGR this morning. (Show will be archived at wgr55.com.) He also said he is "pleased by the trajectory" of the franchise.

Wow, there's a huge disconnect here. He and Terry are going to learn some tough lessons about Buffalo if they continue to try and spin this team as a success of some kind.

Ted points to Terry's commitment (defining it this time as the desire to build a "championship machine") and the various signings, signings he says would never have happened under the previous owner. Fair enough. But to date none of that has produced any results on the ice.

The trajectory of the rocket? There is no trajectory. It's on the pad. In fact, the rocket is objectively worse off in Terry's first year than it was in Tom's last year. That rocket was at least starting to lift off.


Last edited by Clock: 01-12-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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01-12-2012, 09:28 AM
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Myllz
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...wut?

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01-12-2012, 09:29 AM
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I didnt hear the interview but a co-worker mentioned it. My first reaction to seeing this post is that Teddy is starting to remind me of Russ Brandon from the Bills. PR guy that doesnt have a clue about the sport he is working in.

Before I get flamed - I know, I know it hasnt been a year yet etc. and I havent listed to the interview yet either. Just a gut reaction to the OP.

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01-12-2012, 09:30 AM
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I wish people could separate the idea of the team and the franchise and the results on the ice.

They're different you know.

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01-12-2012, 09:31 AM
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I've been disliking Black for a few months now, after this I can't stand him... This guy is another Larry Quinn.Black is so clueless it's not funny.

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01-12-2012, 09:31 AM
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Completely agree with Black as long as, again, this is the evaluation period and that changes will be made at the deadline / offseason.

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01-12-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
I've been disliking Black for a few months now, after this I can't stand him... This guy is another Larry Quinn.Black is so clueless it's not funny.
LOLWUT?

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01-12-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I wish people could separate the idea of the team and the franchise and the results on the ice.

They're different you know.
+1

The overall franchise is in a better place than it was 12 months ago.

But, the team on the ice is pretty freaking bad.

I think my #1 problem is that while they keep saying "We KNOW that we need to make changes", we still have a GM that is overly cautious and doesn't tweak the roster as frequently as other GMs.

And most fans would rather have a GM that makes more moves than fewer moves.

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01-12-2012, 09:35 AM
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Said it a million times and I'll say it again. Terry thinks the only reason we haven't won a cup is because of ownership. He believes spending all this dough is going to bring a cup to Buffalo. They're going to spin it whatever way they want. Golisano indeed was a part of the reason, but there are others. Some of which are still in place.

Until these guys realize that, we won't win a cup. Lindy isn't going to win us a cup here Darcy doesn't take the gambles needed to win one. Both of them are far too stubborn to cut losses in a respectable time and way too many unworthy players stay here far too long for us to win it.

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01-12-2012, 09:38 AM
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Terry Pegula hasn't even owned this team for a full NHL season. He's not going to be reactive and start firing people now because some fans are screaming.

If Regier doesn't do what's needed to turn this around, Pegula WILL get rid of him and get someone in here who will. Just because it doesn't happen on the timeline fans expect doesn't mean it won't happen.

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01-12-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I wish people could separate the idea of the team and the franchise and the results on the ice.

They're different you know.
You can make that argument now. But at what point are they one and the same? Again, the trajectory is only a theory right now. People believe the franchise is better off because they think throwing money around will bring a Cup.

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01-12-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
+1

The overall franchise is in a better place than it was 12 months ago.

But, the team on the ice is pretty freaking bad.

I think my #1 problem is that while they keep saying "We KNOW that we need to make changes", we still have a GM that is overly cautious and doesn't tweak the roster as frequently as other GMs.

And most fans would rather have a GM that makes more moves than fewer moves.
This.

And Teddy, coaching is absolutely part of the problem. Vanek/Pominville's TOI is only the tip of the iceberg.

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01-12-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Terry Pegula hasn't even owned this team for a full NHL season. He's not going to be reactive and start firing people now because some fans are screaming.

If Regier doesn't do what's needed to turn this around, Pegula WILL get rid of him and get someone in here who will. Just because it doesn't happen on the timeline fans expect doesn't mean it won't happen.
That's just as speculative as the people saying Lindy and Darcy have lifetime contracts. You can't say either way what he will or won't do, since we just don't know.

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01-12-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
You can make that argument now. But at what point are they one and the same? Again, the trajectory is only a theory right now. People believe the franchise is better off because they think throwing money around will bring a Cup.
Purchasing a new business is a multi-step process.

1. Complete the sale, evaluate what you have. Pegula did this. He sought advice, and decided to keep Regier and Ruff in place. He was advised that the people were fine, but the circumstances they had to work under were subpar. He changed things to give them the tools they needed to succeed.

2. Make operational changes. Pegula and Black went through, changed how the business functioned. Made fan friendly improvements. Took suggestions.

3. Operate, and continuously re-evaluate. The business side is good, the hockey side sucks right now. They need to decide what it is they need to do to improve the hockey side of the house. That might be firing Ruff or Regier, or both, or it might not be. They clearly aren't sure yet, so they haven't yet made a change.

For me, the key will be the offseason. If the team one the ice rolls like this all year, and they make no hockey side changes, I'll start to question their ability.

Until that happens, I, as a fan, will **** and let ownership do their damn jobs.

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01-12-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
That's just as speculative as the people saying Lindy and Darcy have lifetime contracts. You can't say either way what he will or won't do, since we just don't know.
You're right. In my opinion, Pegula will do what's necessary when it's time to do so. If he doesn't, well, he has a problem.

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01-12-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
I wish people could separate the idea of the team and the franchise and the results on the ice.

They're different you know.
Exactly, the team IS better. They lost Connolly, Butler, and Grier and added Ehrhoff, Regehr, and Leino. There is no way around it, that's an upgrade. The results on the ice are not showing it thus far but the team is better on paper. Why that's not translating to the ice, I'm not sure. Coaching, chemistry, could be a lot of things. It's not fair to jump on ownerships back after 3 months this season. We were all excited this off-season, the team looked great on paper. They haven't performed on the ice and people are upset sweeping changes haven't been made.

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01-12-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Until that happens, I, as a fan, will **** and let ownership do their damn jobs.
I'm inserting various curse words there, and they're all funny.

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01-12-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
You can make that argument now. But at what point are they one and the same? Again, the trajectory is only a theory right now. People believe the franchise is better off because they think throwing money around will bring a Cup.
Not exactly. It's not just about attracting free agents; it's also about keeping the guys who should be kept. Do you think Briere and Drury would've left if Terry owned the team at that point? I'd be shocked.

Beyond that, having someone owning the team who legitimately cares about the team is a positive.

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01-12-2012, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The overall franchise is in a better place than it was 12 months ago..
This is an assumption - one that I don't necessarily disagree with, but an assumption none the less.

Objectively, we can say that the franchise has more resources at it's disposal. But what we don't know is how willing the new owner is to make changes when necessary. Changes to the "core", changes behind the bench, changes in the front office - I think everyone agrees that changes need to be made in at least one of those areas, but we don't have enough of a track record to know whether Pegula is of the same mind, and willing to do what's necessary.

We also don't know to what degree Terry is involved in making decisions that would typically be the responsibility of the GM. Picking a coach? He already came out and told the press that Lindy was here to stay. Not that I think Regier was looking to can Ruff, but that sure looks like an example of Pegula pulling rank on Regier to me. They've also said that Pegula and Black will be involved in all the major player decisions, and we've already seen them go out and personally recruit players to come here - without Regier.

So while I think the Quinn/Golisano situation was antithetical to winning a Cup, I honestly don't think we have enough of a track records yet to say if or by how much the franchise is improved with a deep-pocketed owner willing to spend big $$$. Subjectively, I think we almost certainly are better off now and going in to the future, even if the short term situation looks pretty dismal. But big money can make big, costly mistakes, especially in a salary-capped league. Buyouts and waivers still usually count against the cap - even if it's only a fraction of the original cap hit.

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01-12-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Purchasing a new business is a multi-step process.

1. Complete the sale, evaluate what you have. Pegula did this. He sought advice, and decided to keep Regier and Ruff in place. He was advised that the people were fine, but the circumstances they had to work under were subpar. He changed things to give them the tools they needed to succeed.

2. Make operational changes. Pegula and Black went through, changed how the business functioned. Made fan friendly improvements. Took suggestions.

3. Operate, and continuously re-evaluate. The business side is good, the hockey side sucks right now. They need to decide what it is they need to do to improve the hockey side of the house. That might be firing Ruff or Regier, or both, or it might not be. They clearly aren't sure yet, so they haven't yet made a change.

For me, the key will be the offseason. If the team one the ice rolls like this all year, and they make no hockey side changes, I'll start to question their ability.

Until that happens, I, as a fan, will **** and let ownership do their damn jobs.
Exactly.

As soon as Pegula said that "Lindy ain't going nowhere" and he retained Regier, I expected that Lindy & Regier would get three years minimum.

Pegula isn't in this for the short term. If it takes him 10 years to win a Cup, he'll still be the first owner in the team's history to win one!

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01-12-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I'm inserting various curse words there, and they're all funny.
Sometimes I like the way your mind works.

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01-12-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
+1

The overall franchise is in a better place than it was 12 months ago.

But, the team on the ice is pretty freaking bad.

I think my #1 problem is that while they keep saying "We KNOW that we need to make changes", we still have a GM that is overly cautious and doesn't tweak the roster as frequently as other GMs.

And most fans would rather have a GM that makes more moves than fewer moves.
To be honest, All I care about is the team winning games and Championships. I don't care if the arena walls are pink, if the dressing room is an outhouse, or if programs are $60 a piece.

Don't shove down my throat how much money you've spent on immaterial things when the team is playing .415 hockey at home. Don't shove down my throat about how great you think everything is when the only thing that matters is being overlooked by "the big picture." (This is directed at Black, not you)

I know its a process and it isn't going to be done over night, but stop bringing these things up. We all know how much money was spent last off season. Us fans (might not say it all the time) are grateful for everything he's done so far, but don't try to spin all of this off as a positive when the organization is under fire for being lousy in the standings. All we care about is results. Saying things like this really come across as bragging about mommy and daddy spending more money on a car for you than your friends parents did for them. Its sickening.

One of the Pegula daughters posted something on twitter after the Leino signing and it stuck out at me...

"Jeez, people can't be greatful for anything can they?" Something along the lines of that... and a few tweets back and forth and I found out she was referring to people talking bad about how much money they gave Leino. I'm sure this is a family wide thing. We're supposed to be greatful and not complain because Terry is dumping money. Black making these statements, the daughter saying what she said, and I'm sure there is more...

Sorry dude dumping **** loads of cash doesn't matter to me unless there are results.

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01-12-2012, 09:57 AM
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Please listen to the interview before commenting...

The things that he states are better are NOT concerning the on-ice product but the results...

An owner willing to Spend to win
Marquee Free agents willing to sign
a notable player willing to waive his NTC

These things HAVE made this franchise better.

He acknowledges the problems on the ice. He acknowledges they aren't happy.

Don't go all pitchforks and fire without listening, as the context of the OP is out of line.

Not only that but everyone calling for Ted Black/Terry Pegula's head need to step back and use some reason for once. Darcy/Lindy...I'm ok with them being replaced but it is UNREALISTIC to expect it to happy upon takeover and during the first year.

Blind-logic fans are the worst ones to reason with.

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01-12-2012, 10:03 AM
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Sigh. From a front office/organizational perspective, it's MUCH better. These things are being taken out of context.

On that note, I'm starting to get annoyed by the constant on ice hockey questions Ted Black gets. (Though I understand it.) That's not really his domain.

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01-12-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clock View Post
Completely agree with Black as long as, again, this is the evaluation period and that changes will be made at the deadline / offseason.
Agree.

I have no problem with Black looking, evaluating, taking notes. Then when it is the right time, (not a fans perspective of the right time) he helps make the team and organization better. This organization is so freaking solid financially. He's helped to make the organization a more stable environment. And that is awesome!

No reason at THIS time to pile on Black or Pegula.

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