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Black 'dumbfounded' by opinion that franchise isn't better off now than last Feb

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Old
01-12-2012, 10:10 AM
  #26
ZemgusWho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Please listen to the interview before commenting...

The things that he states are better are NOT concerning the on-ice product but the results...

An owner willing to Spend to win
Marquee Free agents willing to sign
a notable player willing to waive his NTC

These things HAVE made this franchise better.

He acknowledges the problems on the ice. He acknowledges they aren't happy.

Don't go all pitchforks and fire without listening, as the context of the OP is out of line.

Not only that but everyone calling for Ted Black/Terry Pegula's head need to step back and use some reason for once. Darcy/Lindy...I'm ok with them being replaced but it is UNREALISTIC to expect it to happy upon takeover and during the first year.

Blind-logic fans are the worst ones to reason with.
THIS EXACTLY.
The team is 10,000 times better off than it was in February. and I think you're nuts if you see shades of the old regime, or the incompetent Bills empire here, you're just crazy. Give them time. I think any thread which seeks to evaluate the ownership of this team in less than three seasons of ownership is premature.

the team sucks
the coaching is suspect
we could use a new GM

But those three premises don't mean that ownership is bad. I am dumbfounded too. I'm also floored, and a little bit embarrassed to hear ungrateful Sabres fans moaning about Terry because the team (which is essentially the same as last season) posted an identical first half of the season in back to back years. This attitude of calling out the owner 6 months in is tarnishing Buffalo's reputation as a good hockey town.

In any other sport, has any fanbase turned so quickly?

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01-12-2012, 10:16 AM
  #27
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Sure, financially they are better off. There isn't any doubt that they tried to improve the team. We get that.

But, money and fancy signings doesn't mean an improved product. We are seeing that front and center. It's also the reason that, before this year, the frugal spending Sabres were better than the NY Rangers.....it's not money that makes a team better. It's making smart decisions with that money.

If the team has problems at the center position, spending 20 million dollars per year on wingers and d-men won't fix the problem you had to start with and leaves you less cap room to fix the original problem to begin with.

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01-12-2012, 10:17 AM
  #28
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Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread before posting.

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01-12-2012, 10:18 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Ted said it on WGR this morning. (Show will be archived at wgr55.com.) He also said he is "pleased by the trajectory" of the franchise.

Wow, there's a huge disconnect here. He and Terry are going to learn some tough lessons about Buffalo if they continue to try and spin this team as a success of some kind.

Ted points to Terry's commitment (defining it this time as the desire to build a "championship machine") and the various signings, signings he says would never have happened under the previous owner. Fair enough. But to date none of that has produced any results on the ice.

The trajectory of the rocket? There is no trajectory. It's on the pad. In fact, the rocket is objectively worse off in Terry's first year than it was in Tom's last year. That rocket was at least starting to lift off.
Given the context of it as ownership and off-ice improvements, it's not hard to see this team being in a better position overall than at this point last year. They aren't in the standings -- separate issue.

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01-12-2012, 10:27 AM
  #30
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The team is better than feb team. Unforunately we've been destroyed by injuries, and that has destroyed any chemistry. Also, a bunch of player are under performing.

I do think we need a shake up, but I don't disagree with Black.

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01-12-2012, 10:29 AM
  #31
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What's the current trajectory, overspending and underperforming? IMO you can't separate the franchise's standing and the on-ice result. They're both important parts of the same whole.

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01-12-2012, 10:37 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Given the context of it as ownership and off-ice improvements, it's not hard to see this team being in a better position overall than at this point last year. They aren't in the standings -- separate issue.
I think whenever you portray those pesky standings as a "separate issue" when evaluating a team, you're in trouble.

Terry can get away with being the great owner of a mediocre hockey team for a while. Time will soon run out on that.

It's almost like people are arguing that all the moves Terry made were for the purpose of establishing a footprint with no eye toward actually making the team better in the short run. Maybe that's it. Maybe they signed those players just to make a statement.

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01-12-2012, 10:40 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
It's almost like people are arguing that all the moves Terry made were for the purpose of establishing a footprint with no eye toward actually making the team better in the short run. Maybe that's it. Maybe they signed those players just to make a statement.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard about the organization in a while. I'm sure he's eating millions of dollars right now to make a statement.


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01-12-2012, 10:43 AM
  #34
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So it what everyone is saying that we'd like to turn back the clock 365 days. When we had the same record, same problems, and nobody had uttered the name Terry Pegula yet?

No off ice improvements.
No money being pumped into the scouting office.
No money for free agents.
Knowing the Sabres reason for being was the bottom line rather than the cup.

Sure some of the moves haven't worked out. (Leino is not as bad a player as he has shown through the first half of the season.) But it is impossible to say that the team as a whole [Note: I am including everything involving the organization not just the players on the ice.] than we were last year.

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01-12-2012, 10:49 AM
  #35
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Listen, all we care about is winning. These spin games are pathetic.

We want results. Not potential.

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01-12-2012, 10:56 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
I've been disliking Black for a few months now, after this I can't stand him... This guy is another Larry Quinn.Black is so clueless it's not funny.
He's hardly clueless.
He was a part of the management team that built the Penguins.
He knows hockey, and he knows good hockey at that.
People will need to give it time for things to turn around.

Remember this, outside of Regehr, Ehrhoff and Leino, Pegula and his team came into this saddled with what Galisano, Quinn and Regier had already built.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and the Sabres as Cup Contenders won't be built in 3 seasons either.

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01-12-2012, 11:00 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CrankyJay View Post
We want results. Not potential.
Unfortunately that's all Terry can provide us. He's not on the ice playing the games. It's hard to argue the he didn't give this team the biggest shot of potential that it's had in a very long time.

That being said, we weren't winning the cup this year. If you believed otherwise you were lying to yourself. We haven't been out of the first round in years. Lets try to keep that in perspective here. Gotta learn to walk before you run.


Another thing to keep into perspective is that this year was likely always going to be an evaluation year. To see how everyone performed out from the umbrella of Galisano/Quinn.

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01-12-2012, 11:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by barnell View Post
Unfortunately that's all Terry can provide us. He's not on the ice playing the games. It's hard to argue the he didn't give this team the biggest shot of potential that it's had in a very long time.

That being said, we weren't winning the cup this year. If you believed otherwise you were lying to yourself. We haven't been out of the first round in years. Lets try to keep that in perspective here. Gotta learn to walk before you run.


Another thing to keep into perspective is that this year was likely always going to be an evaluation year. To see how everyone performed out from the umbrella of Galisano/Quinn.
No, I didn't believe we were going to win the cup this year, but I did believe we would be at least as good or the same as we were last year. This team has regressed despite the injury problems.

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01-12-2012, 11:14 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I think whenever you portray those pesky standings as a "separate issue" when evaluating a team, you're in trouble.

Terry can get away with being the great owner of a mediocre hockey team for a while. Time will soon run out on that.

It's almost like people are arguing that all the moves Terry made were for the purpose of establishing a footprint with no eye toward actually making the team better in the short run. Maybe that's it. Maybe they signed those players just to make a statement.
Terry has to work against years of stigma -- small market, rust belt backwater with a stubborn GM who has always been tight with the purse strings? That isn't going to evaporate over night. The Ehrhoff move and moreso the Regehr move are part of brand building and DID improve the blueline from last year. They want to make the town a destination for players, it's going to take the ammenities, the cash, and the winning. Right now, he's working in the area of the first two, the players they have are floundering. Is that on him?

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01-12-2012, 11:17 AM
  #40
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It took less than a year to get completely spoiled off of ownership who clearly cares and will spend money. Sigh.

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01-12-2012, 11:19 AM
  #41
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It took less than a year to get completely spoiled off of ownership who clearly cares and will spend money. Sigh.
Entitlement, taste of a new generation...

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01-12-2012, 11:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Clock View Post
It took less than a year to get completely spoiled off of ownership who clearly cares and will spend money. Sigh.
You live in Buffalo and interact with that community on a daily basis. Are you surprised?

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01-12-2012, 11:38 AM
  #43
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You live in Buffalo and interact with that community on a daily basis. Are you surprised?
To a degree, yes.

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01-12-2012, 11:38 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Terry has to work against years of stigma -- small market, rust belt backwater with a stubborn GM who has always been tight with the purse strings? That isn't going to evaporate over night. The Ehrhoff move and moreso the Regehr move are part of brand building and DID improve the blueline from last year. They want to make the town a destination for players, it's going to take the ammenities, the cash, and the winning. Right now, he's working in the area of the first two, the players they have are floundering. Is that on him?
I don't know. It's all so murky. Ehrhoff and Regehr improved the blueline, but it's not showing up on the ice. The franchise/the team/"we" are better off than they were in February, but the standings say otherwise. It's kind of like an ink blot test right now.

The players floundering is on Pegula in the sense that coaching is a big problem IMO and he decided to keep Ruff. You want to change the stigma? Get rid of Ruff. How do you think having one coach for almost 15 years plays around the league. Just my opinion... no one needs to jump on me and say I have no proof; I don't... but there can't be one player in this league who is excited at the prospect of playing for Lindy Ruff in Buffalo. There just can't be.

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01-12-2012, 11:41 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Clock View Post
It took less than a year to get completely spoiled off of ownership who clearly cares and will spend money. Sigh.
Since when does fair criticism of the owner equate to being spoiled or entitled?

Now I'm gonna go watch Ruff eff up practice... again.

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01-12-2012, 11:42 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I don't know. It's all so murky. Ehrhoff and Regehr improved the blueline, but it's not showing up on the ice. The franchise/the team/"we" are better off than they were in February, but the standings say otherwise. It's kind of like an ink blot test right now.

The players floundering is on Pegula in the sense that coaching is a big problem IMO and he decided to keep Ruff. You want to change the stigma? Get rid of Ruff. How do you think having one coach for almost 15 years plays around the league. Just my opinion... no one needs to jump on me and say I have no proof; I don't... but there can't be one player in this league who is excited at the prospect of playing for Lindy Ruff in Buffalo. There just can't be.
Matt Ellis. Where else would he get crunch-time minutes when the team is down a goal?

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01-12-2012, 11:50 AM
  #47
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The franchise isn't better off points wise and likely won't be this year and possibly next year. Pegula will figure out how to be a great owner it's just going to take time, once he does we will win and win big.

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01-12-2012, 11:51 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
I don't know. It's all so murky. Ehrhoff and Regehr improved the blueline, but it's not showing up on the ice. The franchise/the team/"we" are better off than they were in February, but the standings say otherwise. It's kind of like an ink blot test right now.

The players floundering is on Pegula in the sense that coaching is a big problem IMO and he decided to keep Ruff. You want to change the stigma? Get rid of Ruff. How do you think having one coach for almost 15 years plays around the league. Just my opinion... no one needs to jump on me and say I have no proof; I don't... but there can't be one player in this league who is excited at the prospect of playing for Lindy Ruff in Buffalo. There just can't be.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/alls...e-to-play-for/

Ruff wasn't in the top 5 of the HNIC/NHLPA Players Poll of "Which coach would you least like to play for?"

So, I doubt that there are no players that would want to play for him.

Plus, it's obvious that Ruff wasn't an issue with getting Regehr to waive his NTC this summer.

You could say that the money made Ehrhoff and Leino swallow having to play for Ruff. But, Regehr didn't get a dime more to come to Buffalo and had to be convinced to leave the only NHL city he's ever known. And Ruff was a big part of that recruiting process.

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01-12-2012, 11:54 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Please listen to the interview before commenting...

The things that he states are better are NOT concerning the on-ice product but the results...

An owner willing to Spend to win
Marquee Free agents willing to sign
a notable player willing to waive his NTC

These things HAVE made this franchise better.

He acknowledges the problems on the ice. He acknowledges they aren't happy.

Don't go all pitchforks and fire without listening, as the context of the OP is out of line.

Not only that but everyone calling for Ted Black/Terry Pegula's head need to step back and use some reason for once. Darcy/Lindy...I'm ok with them being replaced but it is UNREALISTIC to expect it to happy upon takeover and during the first year.

Blind-logic fans are the worst ones to reason with.
Can you change the thread title then, please mods?

Bit misleading as it is.

Maybe something who don't think the franchise is better than it was in Feb...?

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01-12-2012, 11:56 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by puckish66 View Post
Since when does fair criticism of the owner equate to being spoiled or entitled?

Now I'm gonna go watch Ruff eff up practice... again.
Well, that's sort of the point. Some folk are being overly critical without properly evaluating the situation. It's getting more than a bit ridiculous.

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