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Should Fighting Be Abolished?

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Old
01-13-2012, 12:56 PM
  #51
The Expert
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No and Puck Daddy is garbage and has been for a while now.

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01-13-2012, 01:22 PM
  #52
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I think fighting should be allowed. Fighting is what makes the game fun it brings action and you know hockey won't be the same.

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01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #53
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Well, it is illegal already, as previously posted.


I think there should be stiffer penalties after clean hits. Tired of seeing play being stopped after a check.

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01-13-2012, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Personally I find a good hockey fight to be entertaining. But I really don't think fighting has the desired effect of reducing cheap stuff. The NHL has always had rats, even before the instigator, and always will. Actually fighters protect the actions of the rats as much or more than they protect stars. Even if there is no instigator, all a rat has to do is turtle and get his team a powerplay. Just look at what Subban did when Ference was protecting Kreji last night or Chara getting in the way of a Nuck going after Marchand after the Salo hit. Bobby Clarke, and Ken Linesman always got away with that type of crap back in the day as well, because they were protected by fighters.

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01-13-2012, 06:10 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Personally I find a good hockey fight to be entertaining. But I really don't think fighting has the desired effect of reducing cheap stuff. The NHL has always had rats, even before the instigator, and always will. Actually fighters protect the actions of the rats as much or more than they protect stars. Even if there is no instigator, all a rat has to do is turtle and get his team a powerplay. Just look at what Subban did when Ference was protecting Kreji last night or Chara getting in the way of a Nuck going after Marchand after the Salo hit. Bobby Clarke, and Ken Linesman always got away with that type of crap back in the day as well, because they were protected by fighters.
Agreed. If you simply like fighting, and want it in the sport for its entertainment value, stand up and say so, but don't make these silly "policing the game" arguments. Fighting has very little influence on cheap shot artists, dirty plays were every bit a prevalent pre-instigator as post-instigator. Fighting is there for the entertainment of the fans, and to preserve the extremely rugged/badass spirit of the game, it doesn't do **** to prevent cheap shots.

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01-14-2012, 12:07 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
I think fighting should be allowed. Fighting is what makes the game fun it brings action and you know hockey won't be the same.
Fight much? It's not that fun really. Fun for you, maybe, but this isn't "Real Steel," these are human beings working a job; yes, gifted, handsomely paid, feted human beings working a glamourous job, but it's not Mortal Kombat. Violence in the workplace is wrong no matter the workplace, except for war when the whole point is to kill the other guy as quickly and effectively possible. Hockey will have collisions aplenty without guys breaking their knuckles on each other for our delectation.

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01-14-2012, 07:32 AM
  #57
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First of all, Im not against fighting. In fact, I'd like to see more players fight. Players not goons. However, I'd like to ask question wich been posted before, but never answered- if 90% of players like fighting so much, why so many of them doesn't fight ? Sounds hypocritical to me. Or maybe they don't want to fight ? Maybe they just want to hide behind so called "enforcers" ?

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01-14-2012, 07:42 AM
  #58
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I'll be honest, I like a heated scrum more than the fights that ensue as a result of them.

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01-14-2012, 08:04 AM
  #59
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Absolutely not, consequence would be an epidemy of cheap shots, the instigator rule combined with speed (red line removal) already created a bad chemistry, just imagine with the lack of respect between players today (Money players $$$$)......

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01-14-2012, 08:08 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Agreed. If you simply like fighting, and want it in the sport for its entertainment value, stand up and say so, but don't make these silly "policing the game" arguments. Fighting has very little influence on cheap shot artists, dirty plays were every bit a prevalent pre-instigator as post-instigator. Fighting is there for the entertainment of the fans, and to preserve the extremely rugged/badass spirit of the game, it doesn't do **** to prevent cheap shots.
alex, we have a winner.

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:51 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Yammer View Post
Fight much? It's not that fun really. Fun for you, maybe, but this isn't "Real Steel," these are human beings working a job; yes, gifted, handsomely paid, feted human beings working a glamourous job, but it's not Mortal Kombat. Violence in the workplace is wrong no matter the workplace, except for war when the whole point is to kill the other guy as quickly and effectively possible. Hockey will have collisions aplenty without guys breaking their knuckles on each other for our delectation.
Yes and I did find it fun. That's why I chose to do it multiple times per week.

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:52 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Agreed. If you simply like fighting, and want it in the sport for its entertainment value, stand up and say so, but don't make these silly "policing the game" arguments. Fighting has very little influence on cheap shot artists, dirty plays were every bit a prevalent pre-instigator as post-instigator. Fighting is there for the entertainment of the fans, and to preserve the extremely rugged/badass spirit of the game, it doesn't do **** to prevent cheap shots.
Wayne Gretzky disagrees.

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01-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Agreed. If you simply like fighting, and want it in the sport for its entertainment value, stand up and say so, but don't make these silly "policing the game" arguments. Fighting has very little influence on cheap shot artists, dirty plays were every bit a prevalent pre-instigator as post-instigator. Fighting is there for the entertainment of the fans, and to preserve the extremely rugged/badass spirit of the game, it doesn't do **** to prevent cheap shots.
Since the creation of the instigator rule in 1992-1993, the league has seen fighting drop significantly over the years, but has seen the increase in ugly incidents, more stick work and head shots to the point now where the game is in trouble. It is time for the NHL to rethink the rule.

Fighting always has and always will be a part of the game. People who dont like it or dont see the purpose of it dont understand the game. As well, lets be honest fighting serves as somewhat of a deterent in the game. I recall the days when you would have Bob Probert, Dave Brown, Tie Domi, McSorley and Dave Semenko patrolling the ice and their sole purpose was to protect the likes of Steve Yzerman, Wayne Gretzky and Doug Gilmour.

Rarely did you see Semenko lay a viscious elbow to the head of some opposing player. Nor was it common to see Probert cut across the ice and jump at an unsuspecting players head. No, they settled it the way it should be settled, man to man, fist to fist none of this garbage we see in the game now.

So how much of an impact has this rule had on the game? Well this is just one mans opinion, but the impact has been significant. No more is there the deterent to go out there and blindside a player. In the old days Cooke would have had to answer for his hit on Savard. He would have been forced to duke it out with a league heavyweight or better yet, he may have thought twice about even attempting such a move.

If the instigator rule was not in place the game would be a much safer place in my opinion. Yes fighting may increase, but in all honesty would you not rather have that then the injuries we are seeing now? Without the rule, weasels like Cooke would have to answer for their actions. The lack of respect in the game today is overwhelming and surprising.

The incidents of players being hurt in a fight are rare. Yes there were the ones like Todd Fedoruk who paid for their fisticuffs, but in the big scheme of things a player being seriously injured in a fight is uncommon. The rash of head injuries we have seen over the years are sickening. Here is just a small list of guys who have suffered serious head injuries since the inception of the rule.

Pat Lafontaine
Eric Lindros
Brett Lindros
Sidney Crosby
Willie Mitchell
Steve Moore
Matthew Lombardi
Max Pacioretty
Marc Savard

All of these guys are on the elite level of the games scale and yet all have been felled by head injuries; all since 1992. There are hundreds more who could be added to the list, and that is the tragedy of all of this, that none of them had to be even on that list.

Prior to 1992 head injuries were rare or at least not publicized to the extent they are now. Players did not miss significant time because of headaches or nausea. You rarely heard of a player blacking out or even having a career ended because they were the victim of a headshot.

Why is that? Because anyone who would have stooped that low would have had someone on them immediately. By taking away that deterent it has opened the game up to a new level of disrespect.

Here’s hoping the league can find a way to adjust the problem before someone else is seriously hurt or worse killed by a cheapshot. The instigator rule must be abolished or at the very least re-worked to protect the players because no amount of suspensions or fines at this point is going to make a difference, players are pre conditioned to the way they are playing, the only solution is to allow player to police themselves and let those cheapshotters know that this will no longer be tolerated.

I know that this will never happen as the league fears it could escalate violence and it very possibly could but this is a physical game and the players need some form of release from frustration and they are all competitive. Would you rather they release that through a stick to the head or an elbow to a guys jaw or through a fight? This is the question which now must be asked for the good of the game.

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Old
01-14-2012, 01:43 PM
  #64
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There are not that many fights in hockey games these days to warrant the abolition of fighting. If they happen spontaneously for some reason in the heat of battle so be it.
Throwing high hits, running a goaltender or pushing another players face through the plexiglas are far more dangerous than a little bit of sweater tugging trying to land a punch.

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01-14-2012, 02:12 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetib View Post
Pat Lafontaine
Eric Lindros
Brett Lindros
Sidney Crosby
Willie Mitchell
Steve Moore
Matthew Lombardi
Max Pacioretty
Marc Savard
.
you seem to be saying that without the instigator scott stevens would have been deterred. you have to be joking.

and steve moore???? are you kidding?

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01-14-2012, 02:55 PM
  #66
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Not really saying much.

If Lucian Bute suffers a few defeats, will Canada all of a sudden think of boxing as an afterthought, again?
Canada doesn't give a **** about Bute or boxing, unfortunately. Don't confuse Quebec with the rest of Canada, like so many do when they say how big boxing is in Canada.

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01-14-2012, 02:59 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
you seem to be saying that without the instigator scott stevens would have been deterred. you have to be joking.

and steve moore???? are you kidding?

Rules always have exceptions and since there is no perfect rule....


Last edited by bluetib: 01-14-2012 at 02:59 PM. Reason: mistake
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Old
01-14-2012, 03:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Yes and I did find it fun. That's why I chose to do it multiple times per week.
I did martial arts for a few years, though not for fun reasons. Sure, there are combat sports. It is my belief that hockey is not one of them. Or at most it is a hybrid in which there are combatants and non combatants, which to me is an untenable problem given the intermix of play and the size differences.

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01-14-2012, 04:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by bluetib View Post
Rules always have exceptions and since there is no perfect rule....
which of those guys you mention above was concussed out of his career by a cheap shot?

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01-14-2012, 05:14 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
which of those guys you mention above was concussed out of his career by a cheap shot?
Just a few examples:

Pat Lafontaine (Francois Leroux)
Eric Lindros (Scott Stevens)
Marc Savard (Matt Cooke)

First of all the real issue is an overall lack of respect between players, also speed and size are contributing factors to the equation.

The real question is do you prefer cheap shots and players
(pests) like Lapierre, Burrows, Cooke, Subban, Ruutu, Carcillo, Avery, Marchand, Ott, Bolland, Kaleta, etc... or enforcers with
skills like Lucic (Neely style).

The only comparison that comes to my mind is Ulf Samuelson and Ken Linseman for the pre-1992 era and they where timid when confronted to enforcers in the pre-instigator rule era.

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Old
01-14-2012, 08:29 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Yammer View Post
I did martial arts for a few years, though not for fun reasons. Sure, there are combat sports. It is my belief that hockey is not one of them. Or at most it is a hybrid in which there are combatants and non combatants, which to me is an untenable problem given the intermix of play and the size differences.
As this applies to hockey, I would suggest anyone who is doing it and doesn't like it probably needs to accept responsibility and learn to make hard decisions in life. That's no reason to eliminate it for everyone else.

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Old
01-14-2012, 08:31 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by bluetib View Post
Just a few examples:

Pat Lafontaine (Francois Leroux)
Eric Lindros (Scott Stevens)
Marc Savard (Matt Cooke)

First of all the real issue is an overall lack of respect between players, also speed and size are contributing factors to the equation.

The real question is do you prefer cheap shots and players
(pests) like Lapierre, Burrows, Cooke, Subban, Ruutu, Carcillo, Avery, Marchand, Ott, Bolland, Kaleta, etc... or enforcers with
skills like Lucic (Neely style).

The only comparison that comes to my mind is Ulf Samuelson and Ken Linseman for the pre-1992 era and they where timid when confronted to enforcers in the pre-instigator rule era.
NVM.

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Old
01-14-2012, 10:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
you seem to be saying that without the instigator scott stevens would have been deterred. you have to be joking.

and steve moore???? are you kidding?
scott stevens, the man HIMSELF, said that he would have never played the way he did if the instigator rule wasn't introduced.

please go watch european hockey and see just how much "better" the game is without fighting. just one game! you will not believe how much stickwork and cheap play there is. that's what we are heading towards.

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Old
01-14-2012, 11:16 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Rubber Biscuit View Post
Staged fights, enforcers, instigator rule all need to go.

It should be noted that the three players who tragically passed away this summer, no disrespect intended, but they were goons. I'd like to see brain damage tests done on a player who fought and scored. Someone who didn't make a living by fighting.

It isn't the fights that need to go, it's the enforcers who play a few shifts just to fight.
Show me any credible evidence that fighting contributed to their deaths.

Rick Martin had CTE and he had a whopping 10 career NHL fights.

The bottom line is that hockey is a concussion sport and that head injuries are going to happen. Trying to outlaw fighting even more certainly won't help anything.

Also, all this talk about how since the league is cracking down on headshots, that they should take a look at fighting is bogus. People getting clocked in the head on a hit generally are vulnerable and defenseless. In a fight, you have the option to choose whether or not you want to fight (most of the time) and you have the ability to defend yourself in a fight.

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:07 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 27Niedermayer View Post
Show me any credible evidence that fighting contributed to their deaths.

Rick Martin had CTE and he had a whopping 10 career NHL fights.

The bottom line is that hockey is a concussion sport and that head injuries are going to happen. Trying to outlaw fighting even more certainly won't help anything.

Also, all this talk about how since the league is cracking down on headshots, that they should take a look at fighting is bogus. People getting clocked in the head on a hit generally are vulnerable and defenseless. In a fight, you have the option to choose whether or not you want to fight (most of the time) and you have the ability to defend yourself in a fight.
correct. rick martin got conged on the coconut regular thru clean hits, elbows, high sticks and so on during the pre instigator days where these players were supposedly protected.

as to deciding to fight. next time a guy turtles i'll be sure to see how many in these boards here are giving him credit for defending himself.

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