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Should Fighting Be Abolished?

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Old
01-15-2012, 12:17 PM
  #76
IafrateOvie34
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Originally Posted by Eaglepride View Post
I'm so sick of these threads and some former NHL guys just wanting a spot in the limelight so lets put it this way.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

its part of the tradition, integrity of this great sport. The game is already ********* enough stop turning it into soccer, basketball or whatever.
, I 100 percent agree!

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01-15-2012, 10:55 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
As this applies to hockey, I would suggest anyone who is doing it and doesn't like it probably needs to accept responsibility and learn to make hard decisions in life. That's no reason to eliminate it for everyone else.
What are you saying? That hockey is a combat sport like judo? Really?

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01-17-2012, 03:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
I think fighting should be allowed. Fighting is what makes the game fun it brings action and you know hockey won't be the same.
I guess you must dislike the Stanley Cup playoffs as well as the Olympics, World Junior Championships, World Hockey Championships, CIS, NCAA etc as in these events there is little or no fighting.

As has already been mentioned fighting "isn't legal." It is against the rules. The question should be, does the NHL join the vast majority of the hockey world by making fighting penalties more severe?

As a prediction, as the knowledge of what damage can be done by head blows grows there will be more pressure from the NHL's insurance and one day the NHLPA as well as government's to do whatever is necessary to remove "avoidable head shots." A concussion caused by a clean hit is "part of the game." That is a danger you get in any contact sports. A concussion caused by a punch (which is a violation of the rules) is an "avoidable head shot." The last thing Mr. Bettman is going to want is to get a call from the Attorney General of a Province or State telling him that the next time there is a fight on the ice in whatever province or state is in question the police will be ordered to break it up and charges laid.

Craig

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01-17-2012, 05:18 PM
  #79
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to be honest I have no interest in seeing a hockeyfight.

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01-17-2012, 05:32 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
I guess you must dislike the Stanley Cup playoffs as well as the Olympics, World Junior Championships, World Hockey Championships, CIS, NCAA etc as in these events there is little or no fighting.

As has already been mentioned fighting "isn't legal." It is against the rules. The question should be, does the NHL join the vast majority of the hockey world by making fighting penalties more severe?

Stanley Cup Playoffs fight majors
2010-2011 - 12
2009-2010 - 10
2008-2009 - 21
2007-2008 - 7
2006-2007 - 13
2005-2006- 14

I have to disagree and say there is a healthy amount of fights in the Stanley Cup Playoffs..........

There has been quite a few altercations in the NCAA. One of them after the game in the handshake line....

The Olympics I have never witnessed a fight. It is fun to watch though as it is just a finesse game.

There are a few events that fights do not occur but now lets look at the leagues were it is against the rules and is a penalty.

NHL | AHL | KHL | FEL | SEL | EIHL | ECHL | CHL | LNAH | SPHL | FHL | OHL | QMJHL | WHL | USHL | NAHL

As much as the bleeding hearts want fighting to be abolished.........I think it is going to be quite a while until it might happen and we will see threads like this on HF for the next 10 years.

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01-17-2012, 06:09 PM
  #81
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oh i just love when the anti-fighting zealots bring up the olympics and other world championship tourneys. it makes absolutely ZERO sense!

all you have to do is think about it. or shall i repeat myself?

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01-17-2012, 06:46 PM
  #82
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18,000 fans that stand up and cheer when a fight breaks out disagree with anyone saying fighting should be banned.

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01-17-2012, 09:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by seeweed View Post
oh i just love when the anti-fighting zealots bring up the olympics and other world championship tourneys. it makes absolutely ZERO sense!

all you have to do is think about it. or shall i repeat myself?
I guess -those events have the best players in a country competing and don't need the spectacle of a circus like "freak show" to attempt to draw fans. The hockey is good enough to sell based on the skill of the game.

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01-17-2012, 11:14 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
I guess -those events have the best players in a country competing and don't need the spectacle of a circus like "freak show" to attempt to draw fans. The hockey is good enough to sell based on the skill of the game.
The only small problem is that talent is so diluted since there's too many teams and players today, just look at the overall talent of 3rd and 4th lines in general.

Replacing enforcers with 3rd and 4th line plumbers will hurt the show, and they know it, this one of many reasons why fighting will never be abolished in the NHL.

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01-18-2012, 05:32 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by bluetib View Post
The only small problem is that talent is so diluted since there's too many teams and players today, just look at the overall talent of 3rd and 4th lines in general.

Replacing enforcers with 3rd and 4th line plumbers will hurt the show, and they know it, this one of many reasons why fighting will never be abolished in the NHL.
The only logical argument I have ever heard in favor of fighting is that the NHL season is so long and has so many meaningless games that fights are there to encourage people to pay huge ticket prices and show up or watch on TV. The hockey isn't good enough to sell itself.

As for will the penalties be increased? It may not be up to the NHL in the future. As concern over head shots continue the NHL may have problems getting disability or injury insurance for their players if fighting continues to be penalized as it is. Or the NHLPA could step in and file charges under OSHA and/or provincial legislation like Bill 168 and insist the NHL do more to keep their workplace safe. Remember - the NHL isn't about sport. It is a business and is bound by the same laws as all firms in North America. Add to that the political climate of today. All it will take is a players death in a fight and the law will move in. Hockey has already had the dubious honor of having players like Rick Jodzio, Wayne Maki, Dave Williams, Dan Maloney, Todd Bertuzzi, etc arrested for on-ice violence. Isn't it time players began acting like mature, adults, who can control their emotions and practice some self control?

Craig


Last edited by cam042686: 01-18-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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01-18-2012, 07:41 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
18,000 fans that stand up and cheer when a fight breaks out disagree with anyone saying fighting should be banned.
People gawk at car accidents - does that mean they support them? Many people are drawn to blood and violence. Does that mean in a modern society that is right and we want that?

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01-18-2012, 07:58 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
People gawk at car accidents - does that mean they support them? Many people are drawn to blood and violence. Does that mean in a modern society that is right and we want that?
Yes.. now stop crying about it, and using a psuedo intellectual argument. Fighting has been in the game forever. You can't legislate it out and yes.. while most fans love a good talented player they also love the fighters. I think most fanbases do. I don't get why people get all up in arms about fighting. These are big boys, they can handle it. If you don't like it.. change the channel to tennis.

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01-18-2012, 07:58 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
People gawk at car accidents - does that mean they support them? Many people are drawn to blood and violence. Does that mean in a modern society that is right and we want that?
Well it is definatly not what you want. We get it. You don't like violence and you do not like fighting. Reality is modern society is more violent and enjoys violent specticals as entertainment. Point in case would be stunning rise in viewership and participation in the MMA realm with north America leading the way.

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01-18-2012, 07:24 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Yammer View Post
What are you saying? That hockey is a combat sport like judo? Really?

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01-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
The only logical argument I have ever heard in favor of fighting is that the NHL season is so long and has so many meaningless games that fights are there to encourage people to pay huge ticket prices and show up or watch on TV. The hockey isn't good enough to sell itself.

As for will the penalties be increased? It may not be up to the NHL in the future. As concern over head shots continue the NHL may have problems getting disability or injury insurance for their players if fighting continues to be penalized as it is. Or the NHLPA could step in and file charges under OSHA and/or provincial legislation like Bill 168 and insist the NHL do more to keep their workplace safe. Remember - the NHL isn't about sport. It is a business and is bound by the same laws as all firms in North America. Add to that the political climate of today. All it will take is a players death in a fight and the law will move in. Hockey has already had the dubious honor of having players like Rick Jodzio, Wayne Maki, Dave Williams, Dan Maloney, Todd Bertuzzi, etc arrested for on-ice violence. Isn't it time players began acting like mature, adults, who can control their emotions and practice some self control?

Craig
Your lack of acceptance of a hypothesis doesn't make it illogical.

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01-18-2012, 07:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
I guess -those events have the best players in a country competing and don't need the spectacle of a circus like "freak show" to attempt to draw fans. The hockey is good enough to sell based on the skill of the game.
I always find this to be the strangest argument as it pertains to hockey.

The only place hockey (NHL) has trouble selling is in the US, you know, the area Bettman force fed the league to and in doing so added all these 3rd and 4th liners who lack the ability to compete and have to resort to other means to stay up? What truly gets me though is the notion that we have to have a non violent game to sell to the US.

Let's think about that for a minute. There is no country out there that more glorifies violence than the US. At any hour of the day, TV programming is filled with explosions and violence. The news outlets target their main stories around violence. They have "sports" that get more viewership than hockey where the purpose of the event is to light another human being on fire. Yet show them a nipple and it is the end of the world.

If you want to "sell" the game to the American audience, it would appear that ramping up the violence is your strategy.

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01-18-2012, 07:39 PM
  #92
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Fighting is apart of Hockey, it least in North American style hockey.

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01-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I always find this to be the strangest argument as it pertains to hockey.

The only place hockey (NHL) has trouble selling is in the US, you know, the area Bettman force fed the league to and in doing so added all these 3rd and 4th liners who lack the ability to compete and have to resort to other means to stay up? What truly gets me though is the notion that we have to have a non violent game to sell to the US.

Let's think about that for a minute. There is no country out there that more glorifies violence than the US. At any hour of the day, TV programming is filled with explosions and violence. The news outlets target their main stories around violence. They have "sports" that get more viewership than hockey where the purpose of the event is to light another human being on fire. Yet show them a nipple and it is the end of the world.

If you want to "sell" the game to the American audience, it would appear that ramping up the violence is your strategy.
If this was the case why did both the NHL and WHA fail to catch on in the US in the 1970's when violence was at its' peak? NBC dropped their TV contract with the NHL at the "boom period" of the Flyers. The US saw the NHL's violence and turned away from it.

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01-18-2012, 08:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
If this was the case why did both the NHL and WHA fail to catch on in the US in the 1970's when violence was at its' peak? NBC dropped their TV contract with the NHL at the "boom period" of the Flyers. The US saw the NHL's violence and turned away from it.
I think you may be missing the point. It isn't violence that's turning them off and it is high time the NHL stop catering to markets and people that don't care and starts catering to markets and people that DO care and keep their league afloat.

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01-18-2012, 08:53 PM
  #95
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The days of the two minute heavyweight are pretty much gone. So I'm not sure what more needs to be done to remove them. The writing was inked on the wall following the lockout. Big heavies couldn't keep up with the game and have since been phased out.

As far as a staged fight, I never understood the term... nor do some that use it. What they fail to miss is that a fight off of faceoff happens for a number of reasons: 1) momentum swings; 2) retribution; 3) both guys are fresh. They're not pointless as some would lead you to believe.

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01-19-2012, 05:31 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
I think you may be missing the point. It isn't violence that's turning them off and it is high time the NHL stop catering to markets and people that don't care and starts catering to markets and people that DO care and keep their league afloat.
You have a very good point here. If I were running the league then we'd be looking at teams in Quebec City, Hamilton and Europe. Europe and Canada love hockey - most of the US couldn't care less about it.

But going back to fighting - if you moved into Europe you'd have a problem with it. Most fans there would react with disgust at a fight and turn away. Most Canadians truly love the game and don't watch it for the fights. They watch it for the game. So move out of the US and maybe to Europe and fighting penalties would need to be greatly increased or you would damage your business.

Craig

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01-19-2012, 08:09 AM
  #97
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Fighting in hockey should not be banned. But, sniff punishment should be handed out.
I'm think you fight you get tossed from the game and miss the next game. here is how I'd break it down.
1-4 fights - kicked out of the game + 1 game
5-9 fights - kicked out of the game + 3 games
10+ - kicked out of the game + 5 games.

The key is to remove the Goon or hired gun. Have to make the players more accountable and removing the Goon/Hired Gun is a start.

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01-19-2012, 08:12 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog View Post
Fighting in hockey should not be banned. But, sniff punishment should be handed out.
I'm think you fight you get tossed from the game and miss the next game. here is how I'd break it down.
1-4 fights - kicked out of the game + 1 game
5-9 fights - kicked out of the game + 3 games
10+ - kicked out of the game + 5 games.

The key is to remove the Goon or hired gun. Have to make the players more accountable and removing the Goon/Hired Gun is a start.
How about we leave it the way it is. I really don't see the problem with it, if you don't like it change the channel. Many people like it and would actually prefer the amount of fights to go up.

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01-23-2012, 03:16 AM
  #99
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Someone will die from a hit to the head LONG before a fight kills anyone in the NHL.The speed and armor will kill a person.The amount of injuries due to fighting is very low,how many are due to dirty hits.I know yes anti fighting people a person died in a fight couple years back,also fans die in mlb stadiums every year,and MLB dont see needs to change,and MLB has more retaliation then NHL,you hit a guy in MLB the pitcher throws at you then a bench brawl errupts.Nascar and racecar driving have deaths almost every season,nascar dont change.Why do the NHL need to change due to something happening,3 deaths were far from due to fighting,just overreactions.NHL famious for it 1 fan dies netting goes around net,mlb how many fans have died,im not saying the netting is bad just pointing out it was a overreaction

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Old
01-23-2012, 04:31 AM
  #100
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As sad as I would be to see it go, I think in this PC culture of ours fighting is eventually going to find its way out of the NHL. There will still be fights in combustible situations, bad hits, unavoidable heat of the moment anger. They will just be accompanied like in the other sports with stiff fines and suspensions. I don't like it and will be upset when they move in this direction, but I have to admit it to myself. I think the ball is already rolling down the hill and there is no stopping it.

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