HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lineup Takes Shape In Victory

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2004, 04:19 AM
  #1
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Lineup Takes Shape In Victory

http://www.ctnow.com/sports/hockey/h...adlines-hockey

I really like this Cuthbert kid. I hope he sticks with the Pack and if plays well maybe earn a contract from Rangers in the future. I wonder who the final cuts will be. Im guessing Liffiton and Taylor will play in the ECHL but I wonder if that is good for their development. I also like Craig Weller. I wonder if he has an NHL future in front of him. Has good size is physical, plays D and RW. And why is Grenier on the roster? All he does is take penalties. 39 in one game is alot. I wonder how his fights start. I wonder if he gets alot of instigating penalties which is not good. I remember when we got Grenier, he had 105 pim in 12 games. I would have asked for Ruutu when we dealt Rucinsky.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 04:28 AM
  #2
Prucha73
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
11 defensemen

Tyutin
Kondratiev
Pock
Lampman
Nycholat
MacMillan
Grenier
Rawlyk
Liffiton
Taylor
MacIntyre

How do they plan to sort this mess?

Prucha73 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 04:33 AM
  #3
Prucha73
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
The lines were (left to right): Ryan Hollweg-Blair Betts-Jed Ortmeyer, Alexandre Giroux-Layne Ulmer-Jozef Balej and Chad Wiseman-Dominic Moore-Craig Weller. Trevor Gillies and Michael Henrich, who is on a tryout, were the spare forwards, and Hollweg occasionally moved to center.
Is it safe to say that McGill will not roll all 4 lines?

Prucha73 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 04:52 AM
  #4
BLACKBURN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
11 defensemen

Tyutin
Kondratiev
Pock
Lampman
Nycholat
MacMillan
Grenier
Rawlyk
Liffiton
Taylor
MacIntyre

How do they plan to sort this mess?
Now your down to 7. I would expect The pack to keep Grenier and send Taylor or Liffiton down, perhaps both.

BLACKBURN is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 07:50 AM
  #5
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
Now your down to 7. I would expect The pack to keep Grenier and send Taylor or Liffiton down, perhaps both.
Kondratiev may still return home as well.

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 09:05 AM
  #6
Fish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 2,177
vCash: 500
The Courant is saying that last night's roster was close to what they intend to keep for the season. That would mean that Rawlyk, Taylor, Liffiton and MacIntyre will be sent down...

Fish is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 09:49 AM
  #7
BLACKBURN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Kondratiev may still return home as well.
Good call, forgot about him. He would obviously take the place of those two if they were allocated one. I think it's an important year for him, he has to prove he can stick it out in North America.

BLACKBURN is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 10:09 AM
  #8
NYRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Grenier was insane last night. 39 PIM.

NYRangers is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 10:10 AM
  #9
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 17,507
vCash: 500
it's a possibility, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Kondratiev may still return home as well.
He'd be wise to stick around.

Playing with Tyutin is pretty much a precursor to what he's going to be doing once the NHL starts, be it in January or next year.

Getting some chemistry back with your old partner to prepare for the bigger stage of the NHL would be the wise choice.

Yes, he could still choose to go home, and that's his right. But, I think that the situation is different here than it was for him up ib Tor. and would probably be a bit more receptive to the idea of sticking it out in a league that is going to be very very competitive this year.

pld459666 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 10:41 AM
  #10
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
Is it safe to say that McGill will not roll all 4 lines?
as of right now he doesn't have the option to roll 4 lines. in the AHL you are only allowed to dress 19 players, which means you have to either have 3 lines and 2 spare forwards (with someone double-shifting) or you can dress 4 forward lines and only 5 dmen...

but according to sportsnet, there is a very good chance that rosters will be expanded to 20 players dressed this year to accomadate for the extra players from the NHL. nothing official yet, but it sounds like it will happen...and if it does (and hopefully it does) then mcgill can roll 4 lines and 3 d pairs.

NYR469 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 12:04 PM
  #11
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
i gotta say that i will be EXTREMELY disappointed if everyone is healthy and the pack go with the lineup suggested by the courant...

the way i look at it, that lineup tells me that the pack are putting the priority on winning and putting out the team that has the best chance of winning the calder cup, NOT putting the priority on developing the top prospects. and if the rangers are rebuilding, like they claim to be, then the developing those top prospects needs to be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. during a rebuild the top prospects and future rangers MUST play over ahl-lifers (does anyone think that macmillan, grenier, gillies & cuthbert are part of the rangers future? or more importantly have a better chance of being part of the rangers future then helminen, pock & liffiton?)

and the reason why this is a concern to me is that simply i don't trust sather to stick with the rebuild completely post-lockout, and i think that they are putting priority on winning so from a PR standpoint they can promote the 'rebuild' by telling fans in ny that the pack are in 1st place and hope that people accept that to mean that the future is bright. instead of doing what SHOULD be done and putting the focus on actually developing the right guys and not on how it can be spun in the media. and IMO until the rangers start worrying more about actually fixing the problems in the organization and worry less about public perception during the process, nothing is going to change.

and don't get me wrong...i want the pack to win, but the objective should be to win while developing the top prospects. if the top prospects win, that is awesome...but winning without developing those guys is pointless (and does anyone really think that the pack won't be a top team by playing helminen over gillies?)

the way i see it the following guys MUST play (if all healthy) Balej, Helminen, Hollweg, Murray, Moore, Wiseman, Ortmeyer, Betts, Giroux, Tyutin, Kondratiev, Pock, Lampman, Liffiton...and that leaves 1 defensive spot and 2-3 forward spots for Nycholat, Taylor, Ulmer, Grenier, Gernander, Gillies, Macmillan, Henrich, Weller, Falardeau, Stals, Cuthbert, etc to fight over...a guy like liffiton might struggle early in the year compared to macmillan, but playing liffiton is far more important for the future of the organization and i think that by mid-season liffiton will be rock solid.

and not only would my lineup make sure the top 14 prospects are getting playing time, but i'd argue that the team would be BETTER then the one suggested in the courant because it has more skill, more speed, more potential and with those 3-4 extra spots there won't be a lack of experience, leadership or toughness either...

NYR469 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 12:22 PM
  #12
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Nyr...

agreed, but it is possible Liffiton, Helminen and Taylor just are not currently good enough to play in the AHL. If it's best for their development to be sent to Charlotte, so be it - their development does not have to be in Hartford today. No need for them to play poorly because a league is too fast, too big, etc. All three are under 20, I believe, or just about 20, and two are big defensemen who may take longer to develop.

Fletch is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 12:33 PM
  #13
Fish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 2,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
agreed, but it is possible Liffiton, Helminen and Taylor just are not currently good enough to play in the AHL. If it's best for their development to be sent to Charlotte, so be it - their development does not have to be in Hartford today. No need for them to play poorly because a league is too fast, too big, etc. All three are under 20, I believe, or just about 20, and two are big defensemen who may take longer to develop.
Well Helminen is hurt...so it may be just an oversight by the Courant at this point. There'll also be at least 3 reserves on the AHL roster, and they will possibly rotate in more than you'd normally see at the NHL level.

Fish is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 01:17 PM
  #14
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Slight concussion, right?

I remember seeing that now and was scratching my head when I saw slight concussion, thinking a concussion is always a pretty serious thing. Guess they know us Rangers fans are all too familiar with concussioned (not just from Lindros, but there has to be something wrong with us if after 7 seasons of futility we still spend hours each week talking about the team, players, etc.).

Fletch is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 02:11 PM
  #15
Prucha73
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
the way i look at it, that lineup tells me that the pack are putting the priority on winning and putting out the team that has the best chance of winning the calder cup, NOT putting the priority on developing the top prospects. and if the rangers are rebuilding, like they claim to be, then the developing those top prospects needs to be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. during a rebuild the top prospects and future rangers MUST play over ahl-lifers (does anyone think that macmillan, grenier, gillies & cuthbert are part of the rangers future? or more importantly have a better chance of being part of the rangers future then helminen, pock & liffiton?)

yep, didn't I tell you this before, McGill's first priority is his coaching career and winning, not developing young players, that is a secondary to him.

Prucha73 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 02:17 PM
  #16
Prucha73
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
I remember seeing that now and was scratching my head when I saw slight concussion, thinking a concussion is always a pretty serious thing. Guess they know us Rangers fans are all too familiar with concussioned (not just from Lindros, but there has to be something wrong with us if after 7 seasons of futility we still spend hours each week talking about the team, players, etc.).
I think Falardeau has slight concussion.

Prucha73 is offline  
Old
10-09-2004, 02:17 PM
  #17
Prucha73
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
Now your down to 7. I would expect The pack to keep Grenier and send Taylor or Liffiton down, perhaps both.
MacMillan looks to be a lock to make the team.

Prucha73 is offline  
Old
10-10-2004, 03:01 AM
  #18
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
i gotta say that i will be EXTREMELY disappointed if everyone is healthy and the pack go with the lineup suggested by the courant...

the way i look at it, that lineup tells me that the pack are putting the priority on winning and putting out the team that has the best chance of winning the calder cup, NOT putting the priority on developing the top prospects. and if the rangers are rebuilding, like they claim to be, then the developing those top prospects needs to be priority #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. during a rebuild the top prospects and future rangers MUST play over ahl-lifers (does anyone think that macmillan, grenier, gillies & cuthbert are part of the rangers future? or more importantly have a better chance of being part of the rangers future then helminen, pock & liffiton?)

and the reason why this is a concern to me is that simply i don't trust sather to stick with the rebuild completely post-lockout, and i think that they are putting priority on winning so from a PR standpoint they can promote the 'rebuild' by telling fans in ny that the pack are in 1st place and hope that people accept that to mean that the future is bright. instead of doing what SHOULD be done and putting the focus on actually developing the right guys and not on how it can be spun in the media. and IMO until the rangers start worrying more about actually fixing the problems in the organization and worry less about public perception during the process, nothing is going to change.

and don't get me wrong...i want the pack to win, but the objective should be to win while developing the top prospects. if the top prospects win, that is awesome...but winning without developing those guys is pointless (and does anyone really think that the pack won't be a top team by playing helminen over gillies?)

the way i see it the following guys MUST play (if all healthy) Balej, Helminen, Hollweg, Murray, Moore, Wiseman, Ortmeyer, Betts, Giroux, Tyutin, Kondratiev, Pock, Lampman, Liffiton...and that leaves 1 defensive spot and 2-3 forward spots for Nycholat, Taylor, Ulmer, Grenier, Gernander, Gillies, Macmillan, Henrich, Weller, Falardeau, Stals, Cuthbert, etc to fight over...a guy like liffiton might struggle early in the year compared to macmillan, but playing liffiton is far more important for the future of the organization and i think that by mid-season liffiton will be rock solid.

and not only would my lineup make sure the top 14 prospects are getting playing time, but i'd argue that the team would be BETTER then the one suggested in the courant because it has more skill, more speed, more potential and with those 3-4 extra spots there won't be a lack of experience, leadership or toughness either...
While I mostly agree with you, I think you might be overlooking something very important: one of the things that this organization has been missing is a winning attitude. How many times have we heard over the last 7 years..."we tried hard, but didn't get the lucky bounce...didn't get the call...faced a team that was hot..faced a goalie who was hot.."

How many empty excuses have there been? How many nights when something went wrong early and you just knew that there was no way the group of players called the Rangers were going to overcome that misfortune, even though you've seen other teams overcome the very same thing and go on and have a winning season.

In other words, winning IS important.

Another thing to think about; Good teams need a mix of experience and youth--even in the AHL. There are so many new prospects, playing professionally for the first time and are quite raw. I suspect it's very hard to evaluate them all. They do not know how to play at this level yet and need experienced players around them to show them how to do it, on and off the ice. It's nice to talk about the need to develop young players by giving them lots of ice time, but leave them out there to sink or swim alone is inviting disaster. They need to develop AND win. Throwing them out there without support--especially in a season when the level of competition is higher than normal--is not the best way to teach them how to win at this level.

In any case, regardless of whether the lockout lasts all season, there will be significant turnover and I have no doubt that the roster will look quite different.

I have been one of the biggest critics of the way this organization has been run and I'm still extremely skeptical that this whole youth movement is more than window dressing, but, so far--other than the lack of talent being signed from Europe (not surprising given the lockout, but unfortunate nonetheless)--I really can't complain about the way things are going with the Wolfpack. Give me and the Wolfpack a couple of games and we'll see though.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Old
10-10-2004, 12:38 PM
  #19
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
While I mostly agree with you, I think you might be overlooking something very important: one of the things that this organization has been missing is a winning attitude.

In other words, winning IS important.
but the pack are going to win either way...the team is stacked. and the guys that i'd be removing aren't the key guys...

do you really think that the pack won't be a top team if helminen and liffiton play over gillies and macmillan??

even with the extra rookie mistakes early, we'd probably at most be talking about the difference between possible finishing 1st overall and just finishing 1st in the division...so we'd still be winning, just with the right guys.

NYR469 is offline  
Old
10-10-2004, 03:24 PM
  #20
Brooklyn Ranger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn, of course
Posts: 8,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
but the pack are going to win either way...the team is stacked. and the guys that i'd be removing aren't the key guys...

do you really think that the pack won't be a top team if helminen and liffiton play over gillies and macmillan??

even with the extra rookie mistakes early, we'd probably at most be talking about the difference between possible finishing 1st overall and just finishing 1st in the division...so we'd still be winning, just with the right guys.
I think this franchise has nearly been destroyed by the mismanagement over the last 10 years and it's going to take more than one year to put back on the right track--even at the AHL level. I've never seen most of these prospects and I can't tell you that they are ready for the AHL. And I seriously doubt that making some of the changes you're proposing will change very much overall. Until you can tell me that these prospects will be damaged by playing at lower levels--perhaps only for a couple of months, since there are almost always major changes in the AHL roster over a season--I'm extremely skeptical.

Brooklyn Ranger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.