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The Armchair GM Thread (Part Ten)

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:14 PM
  #1
Ho Borvat
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Best Way To Acquire Shea Weber

Let me start this by saying I hate Shea Weber threads. But I am a hypocrite and here's how I think we could realistically see him being acquired.

So lets says theoretically Shea Weber agrees to sign an offer sheet from Vancouver. He hasn't signed it yet, but he has told Poile he will sign one from Vancouver

$6,268,175 -- $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

Lets say that Vancouver would be willing to offer sheet Shea Weber with something like a 7 year 7 million dollar per contract. Theres probably a decent chance Shea Weber would sign that (big money as well as a chance to play for his home team).

So we would lose 2 late first round picks, a late second and a late third. Its not like we would give up lottery picks or super high draft picks. Nashville still could match the contract but it would handcuff their team financially.

So maybe instead of signing Weber to an offer sheet, Mike Gillis talks to Poile and agrees to give him a package deal instead of offer sheeting him. Something similar in value to 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd but with more incentive for Nashville.

Maybe
Mason Raymond + 1st Round Pick + 1st Round Pick + Jordan Schroeder.
(Would have had Tanev over Schroeder but they have Blum, Ellis and Josi)

Nashville gets a better deal than if Vancouver signs Weber to an offer sheet. Even if Vancouver signs Weber to an offer sheet (7x7) Nashville can still match. So we are given Webers rights, and we are free to negotiate with him which gives us more negotiating power.

The benefit of trading for Weber is Vancouver has the ability to negotiate with Weber. Maybe he accepts 6 million a year for 8 years opposed to the 7 you would offer sheet him too. Or you could sign him to a Luongo style contract (10 years, at 5.5 cap or something). We could likely make his cap very manageable.


With the addition of Weber, Ballard would likely be moved. Pending what his value is at the time, he could be had for decent picks and/or prospects to help mitigate the package sent for Weber. (Webers cap hit would likely be 1.5-3 million more than Ballards)

As for Schneider, the biggest hole in our roster will now be the loss of Raymond and our lower end prospect pool. Instead of moving Schneider for a top 4 d-man, he could likely be moved for a young top 6 forward and a pick.

So maybe
Tampa Bay Cory Schneider + 2nd Round Pick
Vancouver Steve Downie + Carter Ashton (recent 1st rounder)


Last edited by Ho Borvat: 01-12-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Old
01-12-2012, 02:20 PM
  #2
serge2k
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if weber agrees to a muti year OS then nashville matches immediately. at worst they trade him with a long contract a year later.

vancouver doesnt have the cap space.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:24 PM
  #3
Alan Jackson
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I have a difficult time imagining the Canucks acquiring Weber without trading Kesler.

I'm I'm Nashville, that's the first name I'd ask for if the Canucks inquire about Weber.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:29 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
Lets say that Vancouver would be willing to offer sheet Shea Weber with something like a 7 year 7 million dollar per contract. Theres probably a decent chance Shea Weber would sign that (big money as well as a chance to play for his home team).
I'd advocate changing 'home team' to 'a contending team', because I'm getting tired of hearing 'it's is home team!' nobody cares anymore, its just a bonus if it is, as we rarely had any BC born star NHL players want to come here because its their home province, so it's not that big of a selling point.

What players like in pro sports more and more is money of course, but additionally if the team is a good contending team with a quality environment - the city and how they are treated by the team, players/coaches/management.
These are the good selling points this team has to offer now.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:40 PM
  #5
kmad
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Nashville matches any Weber offer sheet.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:45 PM
  #6
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The Armchair GM Thread (Part Ten)

Up to part ten!

Merged the Weber talk into this thread. It looks like we have a deadline thread as well, so try to keep all proposals and speculation in one of those two threads.

thanks!

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:48 PM
  #7
Uhmkay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
Let me start this by saying I hate Shea Weber threads. But I am a hypocrite and here's how I think we could realistically see him being acquired.

So lets says theoretically Shea Weber agrees to sign an offer sheet from Vancouver. He hasn't signed it yet, but he has told Poile he will sign one from Vancouver

$6,268,175 -- $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

Lets say that Vancouver would be willing to offer sheet Shea Weber with something like a 7 year 7 million dollar per contract. Theres probably a decent chance Shea Weber would sign that (big money as well as a chance to play for his home team).
This would be the WORST way to aquire Weber.

Nashville would match that in a heartbeat. The best way to aquire Weber, if you're going to try through offersheet, is to make a one year offersheet of 7m/year. This way if Nashville matches, they can NOT trade him next season and then he becomes a UFA at the end of next season and this gives the Canucks the chance to aquire him without giving up assets (Aside from cap room they need to make, but those assets can at least be traded for picks, etc).

If Nashville does not match the Canucks offersheet, which is a VERY reasonable possibility as they could be very scared they would get absolutely nothing if they do match, then they get their draft picks which the Canucks would happily give up.

Giving Weber a 7 year contract offersheet does nothing but guarantee that Weber is a Predator for 7 years.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:48 PM
  #8
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Ballard for Downie and Gilroy...


Edit: Not a huge fan of Gilroy, he could have been had for free this past off-season, but gotta get a D coming back.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 01-12-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old
01-12-2012, 02:51 PM
  #9
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I find it funny that he made a thread called "best way" to acquire Weber and it's probably the worst way to attempt

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:52 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by YeOldeRyaneClowe View Post
Nashville matches any Weber offer sheet.
How about a $90M/14 year contract.

Or go the dr. evil route.


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01-12-2012, 02:52 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeRyaneClowe View Post
Nashville matches any Weber offer sheet.
Unless its one above 8million/year with 4 first round picks going the other way.

I wouldn't want the canucks to offer that much, even if they could afford it.

There is no "cheap" way of acquiring Weber while his rights lie with Nashville. If the canucks really want Weber and he really wants to play for the canucks, he will sign as a UFA...whenever he reaches that stage.

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01-12-2012, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
How about a $90M/14 year contract.

Or go the dr. evil route.

for a cap hit of $18 million.....no thanks.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:57 PM
  #13
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I'm so tired of parise and weber talk.

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Old
01-12-2012, 02:57 PM
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Only way the Preds would not match an offer sheet would be if the league still allowed a "Luongo type of deal" (eg., heavily front end loaded - to an extreme amount).

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Old
01-12-2012, 03:04 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeRyaneClowe View Post
Nashville matches any Weber offer sheet.
I disagree. He could hand cuff them by signing a 1 yr offer sheet and if they match they cannot trade him and he then says if you match I walk. I think it would be a huge blow for Nashville to lose him for nothing, especially since their is a chance they could lose Suter this summer as well. If he tells them he will only sign with the Canucks (or any other team) what possible leverage does Nashville have?

I know most will say Nashville would still match but think about that for a minute. Not only are you almost assured to lose him for nothing, you are going to piss him off and take the chance he poisions the dreesing room with bitterness.

Nashville is in a hard position, unless of course he wants to stay.

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Old
01-12-2012, 03:11 PM
  #16
Uhmkay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagee View Post
How about a $90M/14 year contract.

Or go the dr. evil route.

"We, the Vancouver Canucks, are prepared to offersheet Mr. Weber at..... 1 MEEELLLLIIIOOOONNNNN Dollars!"

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Old
01-12-2012, 03:19 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
Let me start this by saying I hate Shea Weber threads. But I am a hypocrite and here's how I think we could realistically see him being acquired.

So lets says theoretically Shea Weber agrees to sign an offer sheet from Vancouver. He hasn't signed it yet, but he has told Poile he will sign one from Vancouver

$6,268,175 -- $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

Lets say that Vancouver would be willing to offer sheet Shea Weber with something like a 7 year 7 million dollar per contract. Theres probably a decent chance Shea Weber would sign that (big money as well as a chance to play for his home team).

So we would lose 2 late first round picks, a late second and a late third. Its not like we would give up lottery picks or super high draft picks. Nashville still could match the contract but it would handcuff their team financially.

So maybe instead of signing Weber to an offer sheet, Mike Gillis talks to Poile and agrees to give him a package deal instead of offer sheeting him. Something similar in value to 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd but with more incentive for Nashville.

Maybe
Mason Raymond + 1st Round Pick + 1st Round Pick + Jordan Schroeder.
(Would have had Tanev over Schroeder but they have Blum, Ellis and Josi)

Nashville gets a better deal than if Vancouver signs Weber to an offer sheet. Even if Vancouver signs Weber to an offer sheet (7x7) Nashville can still match. So we are given Webers rights, and we are free to negotiate with him which gives us more negotiating power.

The benefit of trading for Weber is Vancouver has the ability to negotiate with Weber. Maybe he accepts 6 million a year for 8 years opposed to the 7 you would offer sheet him too. Or you could sign him to a Luongo style contract (10 years, at 5.5 cap or something). We could likely make his cap very manageable.


With the addition of Weber, Ballard would likely be moved. Pending what his value is at the time, he could be had for decent picks and/or prospects to help mitigate the package sent for Weber. (Webers cap hit would likely be 1.5-3 million more than Ballards)

As for Schneider, the biggest hole in our roster will now be the loss of Raymond and our lower end prospect pool. Instead of moving Schneider for a top 4 d-man, he could likely be moved for a young top 6 forward and a pick.

So maybe
Tampa Bay Cory Schneider + 2nd Round Pick
Vancouver Steve Downie + Carter Ashton (recent 1st rounder)
As others have said this only makes sense of it's a 1 year deal. And if it was, then everything you said - going to Nashville and letting them know they can trade him instead of him signing a 1yr offer sheet, all makes sense. Nashville would probably rather make a trade at that point instead of just getting back picks. And the option to just match the offer isn't there, as they would then lose him a year later for nothing. Although from Vancouver's POV, why wouldn't they just sign him for those late picks instead and keep their other assets - or use them to fill other holes? I'd rather lose a few picks that will be late in the top rounds instead of moving contributing players.

With a multiyear deal for Weber though, not only are they likely to match, but they can then deal Weber a year later while he's still under contract - and dealing Weber who's locked up for another 6 yrs (using your example) would likely get them a better return then a Weber who's a RFA after this year and 1yr to UFA status.

Having said that, the best way to get Weber is just signing him as a UFA. If he really wants to come here, he won't sign this offseason for more than 1yr. And this gives the Canucks the best chance to get him while keeping their overall organizational depth. If Weber signs a 1yr deal this offseason, we pretty much know he wants out of Nashville and the chances of us getting him become realistic. I'd rather wait a year and take my chances in FA, instead of giving up significant organizational depth (which we really don't have a lot of) to get him just a year earlier.

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Old
01-12-2012, 03:22 PM
  #18
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Would anyone be interested in trading for Subban? Montreal's gotta be thinking about really shaking things up.

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Old
01-12-2012, 03:26 PM
  #19
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If Gillis adds I'm betting it'll be something off the board like his Higgins and Lapierre pick ups. Probably a solid defenseman and a physical 3rd-4th liner.

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01-12-2012, 03:27 PM
  #20
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Would anyone be interested in trading for Subban? Montreal's gotta be thinking about really shaking things up.
Absolutely. But he's virtually untouchable.

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Old
01-12-2012, 04:18 PM
  #21
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Although from Vancouver's POV, why wouldn't they just sign him for those late picks instead and keep their other assets - or use them to fill other holes? I'd rather lose a few picks that will be late in the top rounds instead of moving contributing players.
I would rather lose a few picks that will be late in the top rounds instead of moving contributing players as well...

But I would give Nashville the option... Say 2 firsts, 2nd, and 3rd OR Schneider, 1st, Schroeder, and a 3rd...

With the 2nd trade option, Schneider is likely to be moved anyways... and Schroeder is kind of redundant right now given the current team... Schroeder is worth more than a 2nd round pick, IMO... and with Schneider, Nashville could keep him, or trade him to another team for, IMO, more than a Vancouver 1st would be worth...

I'd much rather prefer give up the picks (I love Schneider and like Schroeder), but a 2nd trade option such as above may be more attractive to Nashville to get it done... Getting Weber would trump option 1 or 2, IMO...

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Old
01-12-2012, 04:30 PM
  #22
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I've got a crazy one here, stick with me though:

To Car: Ballard, Raymond
To Van: Ruutu, Gleason

Ya, I just proposed trading two players on contract for basically two potential rental players; one of the pieces on our end is a valuable two-way speedy winger who is RFA eligible. Nuts I know.

Basically, this assumes Ballard has to go...I just want his cap flexibility really. We get pretty much the ideal players for our playoff run who we may or may not re-sign after the season. If they don't re-sign we open up a heck of a lot of cap space going into the off-season to address whatever needs we may have. We can move Schneider for a young forward upgrade if Ruutu leaves, and re-sign Gleason. Want to go after Weber? Cap space is there.

Would Carolina do it? Would you do it? Heck, I don't even know if I would do it, but it's an interesting thought.

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Old
01-12-2012, 04:34 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I've got a crazy one here, stick with me though:

To Car: Ballard, Raymond
To Van: Ruutu, Gleason

Ya, I just proposed trading two players on contract for basically two potential rental players; one of the pieces on our end is a valuable two-way speedy winger who is RFA eligible. Nuts I know.

Basically, this assumes Ballard has to go...I just want his cap flexibility really. We get pretty much the ideal players for our playoff run who we may or may not re-sign after the season. If they don't re-sign we open up a heck of a lot of cap space going into the off-season to address whatever needs we may have. We can move Schneider for a young forward upgrade if Ruutu leaves, and re-sign Gleason.

Would Carolina do it? Would you do it? Heck, I don't even know if I would do it, but it's an interesting thought.
Naw, Ruutu's not as good as people are hyping him up to be. We don't need anymore Top 6 depth seeing as Hansen and Hodgson can step up if need be.

Gleason will probably cost Raymond straight up due to the bidding war out for his services. I'm just not interested in giving up and RFA Top for a decent UFA D-Man.

I'mma miss Ballard and his '14 lbs of all man' dog.

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Old
01-12-2012, 04:37 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I've got a crazy one here, stick with me though:

To Car: Ballard, Raymond
To Van: Ruutu, Gleason

Ya, I just proposed trading two players on contract for basically two potential rental players; one of the pieces on our end is a valuable two-way speedy winger who is RFA eligible. Nuts I know.

Basically, this assumes Ballard has to go...I just want his cap flexibility really. We get pretty much the ideal players for our playoff run who we may or may not re-sign after the season. If they don't re-sign we open up a heck of a lot of cap space going into the off-season to address whatever needs we may have. We can move Schneider for a young forward upgrade if Ruutu leaves, and re-sign Gleason.

Would Carolina do it? Would you do it? Heck, I don't even know if I would do it, but it's an interesting thought.
That's pretty crazy risky alright, tempting however if we don't win the cup, we'll lose basically 4 roster players just like that.

If we are trading Ray, I'd hope to get a guy whose under contract for at least another year.

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Old
01-12-2012, 04:38 PM
  #25
xtra
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Yes part 10....now you guys can listen to my rambling and remember this is in the offseason:

You know the more i think about it the more i am comfortable trading luongo. Not because i think schneider is better(still belive lui is) but i belive that with the assets we get from trading lui we would be a better team. If there is truth to the rumor from the start of the year that upper management is undecided which to go and it will depend on the playoffs, assuming lui falters i think he could be moved as we have seen AV and the nucks trust schneider to play the big games as much as they trust lui.

for example here's something i could see being done at the draft

To Tampa Bay:
Luongo
3rd

to Vancouver:
Downie
Connolly


reasons:
tampa: gives up a player in downie who can be replaced in FA and a top prospect to get a top5 goalie in the league

Vancouver: allows them to do the next deal

then after that:

To Nashville:
Connolly
Downie/hansen
Raymond
Ballard (cap purposes)

to canucks
Shea Weber

Reasons:
Nashville: Nashville does this because they get good young forwards in raymond and one of downie/hansen that can contribute to their forward core right away. They also get Connolly who can become a force for them and be a number 1 center in the near future. Ballard i said is a cap dump but if there is one team that can turn around a defensemen i think it would be Nashville

Vancouver: they get the #1 dman that the team is missing for so many years and cap space to help fill out any holes they are missing.

the canucks then have a roster of:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Higgins
????-Hodgson-Downie/Hansen
Weise-Lappy-Malhotra

Edler-Weber
Bieska-Hamhuis
Tanev-Salo (assuming no retirement)
Alberts

Schneider
Lack/veteran

So basically with just the two trades we would save about 4million in cap space assuming signing Weber long term at 7million to sign a 3rd line winger and a backup goalie before any cap increase which should be something like 2million

Out
Lui(5.1)
Ballard(4.1)
Raymond(2.5)
Total: 11.7

In
Weber (7)

net gain roughly 4 million

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