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[MTL/CGY] Cammalleri, Ramo & 2012 5th for Bourque, Holland & 2013 2nd

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Old
01-12-2012, 10:51 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
I wont lie

Hes Ben Maxwell 2

Just hope it goes better for him. Welcome to the habs org, learn french :/.
That joke is getting old.

You know as I know that 99% of the players never learn and that 99% of the fans don't care about it.

Fans want a BILINGUAL coach. they don't care about players. Geez, we have only Darche and DD who can speak French

So stop - and I mean you an d others - bringing up that "joke" every two posts.

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01-12-2012, 10:51 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
he might light it up in calgary -- flames have a few playerss that will keep him incheck
i tell you -- he got worse when Gionta got the C
Yeah I've always felt like he was bitter over that.. Even before the announcement was official and they asked him about he had a weird reaction to it

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01-12-2012, 10:52 PM
  #728
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I like the trade. maybe too late to help us make the playoffs this year but it gets rid of a bad apple, adds same scoring with more size & grit. We also get a 2nd & a prospect.

I found it funny that Gauthier mentioned we need to get bigger because the league changed.

When did the league changed, Pierre? In 1922. He only noticed this recently that you need big, fast, gritty players. Any, at least he has seen the light.

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01-12-2012, 10:52 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
Stick him with pleks or lars?
Definitely Pleks, if only to get Pleks going.

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01-12-2012, 10:53 PM
  #730
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For those saying its a panic move and all, what did you expect to get back for him? We did not touch one prospect from our team and got back a decent 2nd round pick, we saved money to sign our players and got a guy able to drive the net. Also we have a long term project in Holland. The Flames get a player that is also on the decline and is making 6 million in cap space. I just want to know, for those complaining, what did you think we would get for him?

Not one non-playoff team would have given a first for him, unless they were mentally challenged. We increase our prospect pool in the process.

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01-12-2012, 10:53 PM
  #731
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Stick him with pleks or lars?
I'd say Plek since I'd rather not touch the AK Moen and Eller line

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01-12-2012, 10:53 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Not at first line center impact though.
2nd line impact should be good enough for next season.

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01-12-2012, 10:54 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
That joke is getting old.

You know as I know that 99% of the players never learn and that 99% of the fans don't care about it.

Fans want a BILINGUAL coach. they don't care about players. Geez, we have only Darche and DD who can speak French

So stop - and I mean you an d others - bringing up that "joke" every two posts.
Je m'excuse

Also lighten up.

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01-12-2012, 10:54 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Karl Pilkington View Post
What a callous way to trade someone. Gauthier sending a message. Happy with the return, but some ****ing humanity please.
I've seen baseball players get traded during the game at their deadline. The Habs only had 11 forwards dressed, they probably would have sat him out if they had more bodies...Just a guess though.

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01-12-2012, 10:54 PM
  #735
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Well Cammy will revert to his old form shortly and make this trade look bad IMO.

Bourque adds some size and some scoring but he doesn't fight - I think 3 ever? Also he isn't French either, so those two myths can be put to rest.

Good Job freeing up cap room and getting some size. Prospects are interesting.

Now does this start the firesale? Hopefully they can move Plekanec, Gill, Campoli, and possibly either Moen or Kostitsyn for picks/prospects at the deadline, add more size and toughness and potential skill. Rebuild for glory!

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01-12-2012, 10:55 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
I'd say Plek since I'd rather not touch the AK Moen and Eller line
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Definitely Pleks, if only to get Pleks going.
Agreed

I really only threw lars in there because i hear rene isnt overly fast, and plekanec is TOO fast

Well see.

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01-12-2012, 10:55 PM
  #737
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I don't think it's whining to say that this trade doesn't do anything for us to get closer to a cup. It's a lateral movement that makes us bigger and might make us harder to play against but does nothing for us long term.

It's another panic move and a wasted opportunity.
Wasted opportunity for what exactly? You think we were getting a 1st round pick for Cammy?
Brings the cap down, and got us a little bigger, on top of getting a higher draft pick. Not sure how you see it as a lateral move exactly.
Certainly isn't the trade of the century but a wasted opportunity seems a little too critical to me.

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01-12-2012, 10:55 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Now does this start the firesale? Hopefully they can move Plekanec, Gill, Campoli, and possibly either Moen or Kostitsyn for picks/prospects at the deadline, add more size and toughness and potential skill. Rebuild for glory!
Not sure if serious.

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01-12-2012, 10:56 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
That joke is getting old.

You know as I know that 99% of the players never learn and that 99% of the fans don't care about it.

Fans want a BILINGUAL coach. they don't care about players. Geez, we have only Darche and DD who can speak French

So stop - and I mean you an d others - bringing up that "joke" every two posts.
I'm sorry. Not being a real fan like you, I never realized that was the case. Especially when that was a major complaint at the "protest".

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01-12-2012, 10:57 PM
  #740
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[QUOTE=JC93;42388695]Gionta is out long term and Gomez is tra-la-la'ing in noman's land. So there are only 2. And big guys playing small is the same as small guys need to play big - Cammalleri certainly hasn't done that. Cunneyworth's french is sharper than Cammalleri's snapshot this year.

Anyways, I only pointed it out because despite the fact they're not that small of a team, most idiot medias will still refer to them as one. Not that it really matters, its just funny. But a top 9 with Bourque, Cole, Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, and Moen is hardly small and soft.

Also it will be cool to see next year Leblanc replacing Gomez and Gallagher replacing Cammalleri could give the Habs all kinds of cap freedom.[/QUOT

they need to play bigger and with a little atitude- i still would havr rather jusrt recievd picks for camm but i realize that wasnt easy -- cantstand gauthier he looked like the cat that swallowed the carrot-- and hewas really going with Mr routine-hope to god this is the last season of this joker management team

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01-12-2012, 10:58 PM
  #741
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So I guess it's safe to say that PG isn't going anywhere for a while if he was allowed to pull off this trade..

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01-12-2012, 10:59 PM
  #742
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Cammy was a terrible fit for a team littered with midgets; which consequently made him play like a girl.

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01-12-2012, 10:59 PM
  #743
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Cammalleri's interview at the hotel

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01-12-2012, 10:59 PM
  #744
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I don't mind this trade. As much as I loved Cammy at times - he just seems to have absolutely no ability to affect the game if he isn't scoring.

Now, I'm not totally sure what we'll get out of Bourque either. I've seen him be great, but have also heard a lot of disturbing stories from people who watch him more regularly.

Ramo could be very good, but was never going to come here to play behind Price. Calgary may get him over though, because Kiprusoff isn't getting any younger.

Although people have good things to say, I'm not convinced Holland will ever become a regular part of the Habs lineup.

So that basically leaves a 2nd round pick, which should be decent because I can't see Calgary tearing it up at any point in the next couple of years - plus Bourque's cap hit is almost half of Cammy's. This is fairly important, especially since Gauthier hurt our cap space with the unnecessary Kaberle trade.

Overall, I'd have to say that I'm in favour of this trade (but kind of sad to see Cammalleri go since he left us with some great memories).

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01-12-2012, 11:00 PM
  #745
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Just like Cammalleri's way of sending a message to his team.
I agree with Cammelleri's assessment of the team. They are a loser franchise this year. Organizations can't be run this way. Cammy spoke his mind about how his team is being run.. Gauthier is the one who isn't the team guy here.. he doesn't give a **** about people.. he's in this for himself. The decisions he's made this year show that. The whole angle of "well it's business" is absolute ******** to me. The job of a leader is to provide the conditions for success not control people. Gauthier wants to be in control, that's his thing and those are conditions he imposes on his team.. that's right HIS team... I have a feeling Cammy isn't the only one in that locker wondering what the **** the point of this season is.

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01-12-2012, 11:00 PM
  #746
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I don't think it's whining to say that this trade doesn't do anything for us to get closer to a cup. It's a lateral movement that makes us bigger and might make us harder to play against but does nothing for us long term.
I disagree with this.

I think we did pretty well on this one.

Even if you want a rebuild you still have to have experienced players in your roster for next season. So yeah, you get a lateral move for a guy making 2.7 mil less, plus a 2nd round pick.

The best we would get for Cammy would be a late first from a playoff bound team. I don't think we can trade our way up in the draft. We are gonna pick in the top five by the looks of things and no one would want to sell anything higher than that. Would you want to sell your shot at Yakupov or Grigorenko?

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01-12-2012, 11:03 PM
  #747
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A 2nd round pick isin't a good pick? We weren't getting a 1st for Cammy. He makes 6 million so we had to bring back salary. We gain cap space! We also add to our youth by getting a 20 year old prospect who will be in Hamilton next year.
A 2nd round pick is not a good pick.
A 1st for Cammalleri was totally possible to find. That way, you can at least pretend to start something for the future, even if the problem is not there, there is at least a logic behind it.

(I dont understand why trading Cammalleri, but anyway, we're waaaay past this now)

Im not saying that a 1st + Bourque was possible, but it doesnt make any sense to do such a move. Like Lafleurs Guy said, and i rarely agree with him (thats how bad i find it is ! ), its, at best, and its unlikely, a lateral move.

And we did sell low, again.

Bourque is not better than Cammalleri, and the pick is surely not going to change that. (Well, if its not true, thats going to be the case in what...4 or 5 years ?...)

Cap space ? We can spend to the cap, we have a rich owner, we sell out every game, money is not an issue. Cap space doesnt win you games !
The prospect you're talking about is unlikely to be more than a 4th liner.

I dont understand why so many people are saying that Bourque's production > Cammalleri's production right now.
Different teams, different environment, different teammates, etc...

Cammalleri was a 39 goal scorer with Calgary, Bourque is a 25 goal scorer.
So, if Cammalleri is a 25 goal scorer with Montreal, Bourque could be a 11 goal scorer here...
You see, i can do it too.

I have a verrrry hard time believing that Bourque could be as effective as Cammalleri is, especially in PO.
Cammalleri was mainly signed because of his efficiency on the PP. Unfortunately for him, there is a russian guy always injured on our team, and that did hurt his offensive numbers, but otherwise, 5-on-5, where it actually matters the most, he is playing fine.


Overpaid ? Possibly, but we never really had the possibility to see him in a normal situation (with an healthy team) for more than 15 games with us. And still, 1st liners are almost always overpaid, and especially UFA ones. But in the current situation league-wise, it is not a problem.

Other thing : Heart, grit, more often than not, its BS.
I start to believe that a lot of people just doesnt have a clue, honestly.

Its the 4th surprising and reactionary move done by Gauthier in 4 months, and the situation did never improve. (Obviously, since they were not good moves and did fix absolutely nothing)
I know its not only black and white, grey exists, but if you dont trust in the ability of Gauthier to do a correct job, how could you defend such a precipitated (? is it correct in english ?) deal whereas its the 4th in 4 months ?


We dont improve our situation for the season, we dont improve the situation long-term, the justification behind the moves are unappropriate and stupid, and its again very likely a knee-jerk reaction.

To make things worse, the owner doesnt seem to be very smart either to agree with that kind of decisions.

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01-12-2012, 11:04 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
they need to play bigger and with a little atitude- i still would havr rather jusrt recievd picks for camm but i realize that wasnt easy -- cantstand gauthier he looked like the cat that swallowed the carrot-- and hewas really going with Mr routine-hope to god this is the last season of this joker management team
well the team will likely be done come the start of april, which would give Gauthier the rest of the year to clean up the team a bit, then hand it off to someone in time for them to have lots of time to prep for the draft/free agency. i don't mind this trade as it gets us a nice pick and a servicable player while giving the future GM some flexibility for the contacts that will be signed this offseason that will make up the future of the team for a while (price and subban).

and for what it's worth cammalleri is going to play well in calgary. probably ironically with tanguay (is he healthy?). he needed a pure set up man and never really had one here. his issue and the reason why he does not need to be a hab any more, is he is too complimentary of a player but is paid like a stand alone star. he can't do it himself, and instead of collecting around 4 million he gets paid 6. i guess it wouldn't be as much of an issue if the teams other highest paid forward hadn't have been a bust. but, for gomez, sometiems trades don't work out. this is why it's essential to have a new gm - someone who can flip a switch and let the new generation of habs grow together while adding the right veteran pieces around them.

habs management needs to get younger and more progressive. for what it's worth the team gauthier and gainey built gave us a great run in the posteseason and an unlucky series loss last spring. this year will be 0 for 3 in the playoffs, so its time to start moving torwards a different mold.

one that is what you want: more aggressive, more attacking, and more team oriented. this young group (price, subban, eller, pacioretty, emelin, white maybe weber and diaz, eventually leblanc and gallagher) needs to come together with the right set of veterans (guys like plekanec, gorges, gionta, cole moen and kostitsyn - the last two who must in my opinion be kept) and give us some healthy rejuvenated, markov-led playoff magic next year.

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01-12-2012, 11:05 PM
  #749
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I don't mind this trade. As much as I loved Cammy at times - he just seems to have absolutely no ability to affect the game if he isn't scoring.

Now, I'm not totally sure what we'll get out of Bourque either. I've seen him be great, but have also heard a lot of disturbing stories from people who watch him more regularly.

Ramo could be very good, but was never going to come here to play behind Price. Calgary may get him over though, because Kiprusoff isn't getting any younger.

Although people have good things to say, I'm not convinced Holland will ever become a regular part of the Habs lineup.

So that basically leaves a 2nd round pick, which should be decent because I can't see Calgary tearing it up at any point in the next couple of years - plus Bourque's cap hit is almost half of Cammy's. This is fairly important, especially since Gauthier hurt our cap space with the unnecessary Kaberle trade.

Overall, I'd have to say that I'm in favour of this trade (but kind of sad to see Cammalleri go since he left us with some great memories).
I guess the two Finnish guys might had talked together recently, and maybe Ramo told him he would be interested to come back in the NHL, but not to backup Price in MTL.

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01-12-2012, 11:06 PM
  #750
Lafleurs Guy
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Wasted opportunity for what exactly? You think we were getting a 1st round pick for Cammy?
Brings the cap down, and got us a little bigger, on top of getting a higher draft pick. Not sure how you see it as a lateral move exactly.
Certainly isn't the trade of the century but a wasted opportunity seems a little too critical to me.
It's a complete waste of time. It's a lateral movement that at best makes us a little better in the short term.

These aren't the kinds of moves we should be making.
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
I disagree with this.

I think we did pretty well on this one.

Even if you want a rebuild you still have to have experienced players in your roster for next season. So yeah, you get a lateral move for a guy making 2.7 mil less, plus a 2nd round pick.

The best we would get for Cammy would be a late first from a playoff bound team. I don't think we can trade our way up in the draft. We are gonna pick in the top five by the looks of things and no one would want to sell anything higher than that. There are some good players in there this year.
You aren't looking at the big picture here. If we put blinders on and only take a narrow view of what we traded vs. the return for the immediate future... sure it's not that bad. Heck, we might even be marginally better.

But it's a wasted opportunity to get younger and build towards the future. It's a question of team direction. Our GM has no vision and is making reactionary trades to stop the bleeding in the short term. There's no indication of a long term plan here.

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