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[MTL/CGY] Cammalleri, Ramo & 2012 5th for Bourque, Holland & 2013 2nd

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Old
01-13-2012, 06:45 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wow... I'm just getting this news. Just... wow...

In what universe is all of that junk worth Cammalleri (regardless of slump or not), let alone justification to throw in Ramo... and a draft pick? Not that I'm as high on Ramo as many others seemed to be when we acquired him (certainly had to move Desjardins and Sanford to make room for him, eh? rofl), but come on already. W.T.F.
The last two trades by PG are showing the direction he wishes to go. Terrible, terrible, I think this guy needs to go before he is ever allowed to make another deal. He's simply bad, fans actually favor this deal, haha.

I can't freaking believe it, seriously. This is only going to get worse.

I remember when poster here said during that horrible summer, be careful what you wish for. I know exactly what they meant. This is getting real ugly.

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01-13-2012, 06:47 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Since gettting traded to Calgary, summer of 2008(3 1/2 years) he has 88 goals in 248 games. Works out to 29.10 per 82 games.

08-09 21 in 58 games
09-10 27 in 73 games
10-11 27 in 80 games
11-12 13 in 38 games(pace for 29 over 82 games)

Plus he is much bigger...5'9" 183lbs vs 6'2" 213lbs
Hits a lot more, this year 38 games 48 hits, Cammy 38 games 7 hits.

I'm thrilled with the return, I was afraid we'd get stuck trading him for Dustin Penner or Cory Sarich or Jason Blake...dead cap space.
That's all very nice. Still, he does NOT average 27 goals per season (you fantasy cats can go on about "pace", but most of us older guys stopped giving credit for games a player never played looong ago), and therefore it is unreasonable to speak of him in terms of being one, let alone say that as if projecting what we can expect from him moving forward into his 30s in what could/should be a bottom 6 role.

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01-13-2012, 06:51 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
a "decent" move. Nothing to be overly happy about, but Cammy needed to go, and who knows, maybe the 4M$ it saves the organization helps them more easily accept burrying gomez


one thing is quite likely...

by the end of the season this trade will "look" absolutely terrible.

I suspect Cammy will catch fire in Calgary. He's a pouty ego-player, and will be looking to prove himself back in the city of his last strong/consistent success.

Calgary will be focused on getting him going, he'll get patience and freedom to do what he does best, score, regardless of shortcomings in other parts of the ice.

Odds of him outscoring Bourque, in a big way, btw now and april, are very big.



that shouldn't be considered a "fail" on our part, it should be all about what Bourque, the cap space, and the eventual contributions of Holland/2nd give to the organization...

but if we're lucky, it will be enough to get Gauthier pushed out of the organization for good. Guy needs to go.
LOL, I can't believe this ****

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01-13-2012, 06:51 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
You take a pool of NHL Gm's, i bet 85% take Cammy over Bourque..
So Cammy doesn't equal Bourque IN MY BOOK.


we gave up Cammy a 5th rounder...and Ramo..
We get back Bourque a 2nd a Jr player who doesn't think he will make the NHL(his own words)




So look at it ..

Even if you say Bourque equals Cammy.

We traded a 5TH ROUNDER to get a 2ND ROUNDER.

Ramo equals the bust in Jr who think he wont make NHL.



WHAT A JOKE...
We traded a 5TH ROUNDER to get a 2ND ROUNDER.


That is the deal....
In the cap world, just about every GM in the NHL(except maybe Feaster who is running the Flames into the ground) would take Bourque at 3.3 mil over Cammy at 6.0 mil cap hit.

The joke is your posts, you have no logic and post all kids of garbage.

As much as I liked Cammy when we got him, he was never playing up to his contract except at playoff time. A one dimensional scorer who wasn't scoring.

At least Bourque brings size and physicality, and he leaves cap room to improve the team elswhere.

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01-13-2012, 06:55 AM
  #905
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Cammy clearly didn't want to play for the Habs anymore and his attitude was becoming an issue. Take it for whats its worth, Francois Gagnon just said on TEAM 990 that players on the Habs team messaged him saying they believed the story he came out with. He also went on to add that players on the team are happy he is gone.

I kind of believe him, even if people tend to hate him on these boards, I find he does a good job.

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01-13-2012, 06:56 AM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Since gettting traded to Calgary, summer of 2008(3 1/2 years) he has 88 goals in 248 games. Works out to 29.10 per 82 games.

08-09 21 in 58 games
09-10 27 in 73 games
10-11 27 in 80 games
11-12 13 in 38 games(pace for 29 over 82 games)

Plus he is much bigger...5'9" 183lbs vs 6'2" 213lbs
Hits a lot more, this year 38 games 48 hits, Cammy 38 games 7 hits.

I'm thrilled with the return, I was afraid we'd get stuck trading him for Dustin Penner or Cory Sarich or Jason Blake...dead cap space.
Pace means nothing. And 48 hits in 38 is far from impressive, especially as an argument for those touting him as a "power forward".

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01-13-2012, 06:56 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
In the cap world, just about every GM in the NHL(except maybe Feaster who is running the Flames into the ground) would take Bourque at 3.3 mil over Cammy at 6.0 mil cap hit.

The joke is your posts, you have no logic and post all kids of garbage.

As much as I liked Cammy when we got him, he was never playing up to his contract except at playoff time. A one dimensional scorer who wasn't scoring.

At least Bourque brings size and physicality, and he leaves cap room to improve the team elswhere.
You continue to prove with every post you have no freaking idea what you are talking about. This is an absolutely disgusting trade from a habs perspective. It gets us no closer to our coveted 8th place we love fighting for and it certainly does very little for the future. It was a blown opportunity to do the right thing. This GM needs to go now. Not in another week, but now. He's a freaking joke.

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01-13-2012, 06:56 AM
  #908
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http://tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=384950

Very good article by Bobby Mac on the trade...

The regular season numbers are surprising, though. Shocking actually. To me, anyway. Mostly because Bourque, who incidentally is a half year older than Cammalleri, has a league-wide reputation for being an enigmatic underachiever who runs really hot and really cold

So someone needs to ask the question: Is it conceivable Gauthier has replaced Cammalleri's goals in the Canadiens' lineup, got bigger and tougher and done so while freeing up an additional $3 million in cap space, giving the Habs the equivalent of more than $8 million worth of cap room

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01-13-2012, 06:57 AM
  #909
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I don't know anything about Bourque but Cammy's been a pooch all year. He's been getting booed because he gives up on the puck when anyone's near and for some strange reason, has played a very soft game this year. It's no wonder he's not scoring. I imagine the team did not take well to his comments because he's been one of the worst in effort on the team.

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01-13-2012, 06:57 AM
  #910
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It's about time we got rid of this guy. I have been wanting him out of town for about a year and a half. Ever since his injuries he has been afraid to get hit. The guy bails on all physical contact. I am of the firm belief that he was intentionally missing passes and loose pucks simply to make sure he wouldn't have to get hit. If he was winning a race to the puck he would jump to the side like he was being some crafty player who is going to steal the puck from the defenseman....only problem is that he would have won the race in the first place.

Listen, I am more likely to forgive everything I mentioned above if he was being the sniper he was supposed to be, but he was not scoring, not going in the dirty areas and he was just another small forward with a big cap hit.

I am almost positive that he will find his scoring touch in Calgary again, but he wasn't finding it here again, and that is fine by me. The fact is that we gained assets for a guy that we got via UFA (which I view as for free).

We get Bourque a second and a prospect. I really like Bourque and have wanted him for a while. He has a great cap hit and gives us size up front to go on the line formerly known as "smurf line".

I believe that Bourque is not the replacement for Cammy, but the replacement for Kostitsyn. I personally would like to have Kosty back, but management may be looking at trading him at the deadline and replacing him with Bourque next year with a lower cap hit.

Then Cammy can be replaced via FA, hopefully by a guy with more size or at least more determination.

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01-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
The last two trades by PG are showing the direction he wishes to go. Terrible, terrible, I think this guy needs to go before he is ever allowed to make another deal. He's simply bad, fans actually favor this deal, haha.

I can't freaking believe it, seriously. This is only going to get worse.

I remember when poster here said during that horrible summer, be careful what you wish for. I know exactly what they meant. This is getting real ugly.
Gauthier seems kinda dirty too...Spacek had to wait two hours at the practice rink before Gauthier told him where he'd been trade to. Cammalleri is put IN the 2nd period and told to clear out, you've been traded but we're not telling to who...

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01-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's all very nice. Still, he does NOT average 27 goals per season (you fantasy cats can go on about "pace", but most of us older guys stopped giving credit for games a player never played looong ago), and therefore it is unreasonable to speak of him in terms of being one, let alone say that as if projecting what we can expect from him moving forward into his 30s in what could/should be a bottom 6 role.
No matter how you slice it...since Cammy was signed in 2009...

Cammy(30 in June) 170 GP 54 goals 5'9" 183lbs 6 mil cap hit...does not hit
Bourque(30 a month ago) 191 GP 67 goals 6'2" 213lbs 3.3 mil cap hit...hits

PLUS we won big time on the rest of the trade, a 2nd rounder from a team that could be crap in 12-13, at worst midpack. Plus a guy who is 9th in WHL scoring and who's production has improved a ton the last 2 years.

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01-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by MJN79 View Post
Cammy clearly didn't want to play for the Habs anymore and his attitude was becoming an issue. Take it for whats its worth, Francois Gagnon just said on TEAM 990 that players on the Habs team messaged him saying they believed the story he came out with. He also went on to add that players on the team are happy he is gone.

I kind of believe him, even if people tend to hate him on these boards, I find he does a good job.
You believe that hack? I don't believe a single thing he says.

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01-13-2012, 06:59 AM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
In the cap world, just about every GM in the NHL(except maybe Feaster who is running the Flames into the ground) would take Bourque at 3.3 mil over Cammy at 6.0 mil cap hit.

The joke is your posts, you have no logic and post all kids of garbage.

As much as I liked Cammy when we got him, he was never playing up to his contract except at playoff time. A one dimensional scorer who wasn't scoring.

At least Bourque brings size and physicality, and he leaves cap room to improve the team elswhere.

I guess you said it ...the Cups is won in December...

If you only producing in playoff you suck....

Cammy 29 pts in 26 playoff game how dare he...



Cammy got DUMPED cause Gauthier needs cap room for next year...

He put himself into the corner with over 8 million per in JG AND Kaberle.

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01-13-2012, 07:00 AM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Not bad. You and Gauthier must use the same scouting manual, lol.

And what exactly is the big deal about what Cammalleri said? I keep hearing about how big of a deal the media made it, and it still sounds like nothing more than a genuine, honest, and frustrated star player. Why does stuff like that automatically get linked to the term "locker room cancer"? Media... worst thing to happen to sports, ever. Because of it "entertainment value" and personalities seem to be bigger league concerns than the focus on winning Stanley Cups nowadays, and I find that sad on many levels.
I don't think he meant anything personal about his comments, but the difference between his reaction and the others on the team is night and day.

Think about it, a couple seasons ago, the team is slumping and Plekanec says "I'm playing like a little girl".

Eller: "I need to be better"

Subban: "I'm embarrassed, I shouldn't be a healthy scratch. I need to be better"

Cammalleri, the player that gives the least amount of effort and the most afraid of body contact: "We are playing like losers".

You can't have that. The weakest link on the team calling everyone out while everyone else is man enough to put the blame on themselves? It's not even a lack of contribution, it's the lack of even trying to contribute.

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01-13-2012, 07:00 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
You continue to prove with every post you have no freaking idea what you are talking about. This is an absolutely disgusting trade from a habs perspective. It gets us no closer to our coveted 8th place we love fighting for and it certainly does very little for the future. It was a blown opportunity to do the right thing. This GM needs to go now. Not in another week, but now. He's a freaking joke.
Please explain to me how we lost this trade?

Got a bigger, meaner and more productive player with almost half the cap hit, plus we got the better pick and more useable 3rd asset.

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01-13-2012, 07:02 AM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No matter how you slice it...since Cammy was signed in 2009...

Cammy(30 in June) 170 GP 54 goals 5'9" 183lbs 6 mil cap hit...does not hit
Bourque(30 a month ago) 191 GP 67 goals 6'2" 213lbs 3.3 mil cap hit...hits

PLUS we won big time on the rest of the trade, a 2nd rounder from a team that could be crap in 12-13, at worst midpack. Plus a guy who is 9th in WHL scoring and who's production has improved a ton the last 2 years.
How can you argue he hits? 41 hits in 38 games is far from impressive, there are 8-9 players on the Habs who currently have more. He has never surpassed 100 hits in a season....he is slow and his cap hit while smaller is here for 2 extra seasons. The trade does not improve the team and is a lateral move at best.

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01-13-2012, 07:04 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
The last two trades by PG are showing the direction he wishes to go. Terrible, terrible, I think this guy needs to go before he is ever allowed to make another deal. He's simply bad, fans actually favor this deal, haha.

I can't freaking believe it, seriously. This is only going to get worse.

I remember when poster here said during that horrible summer, be careful what you wish for. I know exactly what they meant. This is getting real ugly.
As a Leaf fan, we (leaf fans) can empathize what your fanbase is going through. Burke may have done some moves which have been criticized, but the 'gong show' days of JFJ are long gone.

From an outside perspective, your GM should not be allowed to do any more moves. He has locked too many mediocre players that have longer term contracts and while you have some decent prospects, there are not a lot of bluechippers in the system either. IMO, he should have just got prospects/picks for Cammalari. Bourque is decent, but he is not a difference maker and he has a long term contract (and is already 30 years of age). I also think that all of the drama/controversy is going to impact UFA signings in Montreal. Better be prepared to start to build within for a few years.

You do have a franchise goalie though. That can change things quickly (as long as Price wants to commit long term with all of the drama that is going on).

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01-13-2012, 07:05 AM
  #919
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How can you argue he hits? 41 hits in 38 games is far from impressive, there are 8-9 players on the Habs who currently have more. He has never surpassed 100 hits in a season....he is slow and his cap hit while smaller is here for 2 extra seasons. The trade does not improve the team and is a lateral move at best.
You get a pick for the future. And a roster player who hits more than Cammy, can pot 20 some goals and gets paid less.

We don't get any better this season. But making a salary dump in a lateral move, plus acquiring a pick is not all that bad.

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01-13-2012, 07:05 AM
  #920
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
You believe that hack? I don't believe a single thing he says.
Cammy still said he is a better player today he was 3 years ago and not once mentioned he was to blame as well for Habs demise this season. I am not surprised he is a cancer in room. Damphousse also said he has a reputation as being the most selfish player, Gauthier who played with him said same thing, Alain Roy said something to the effect he has a big ego.

I think Gagnon is an honest journalist, no he might not be a Habs fan but doesn't mean he is on a mission to invent crap and write on it.

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01-13-2012, 07:08 AM
  #921
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Please explain to me how we lost this trade?

Got a bigger, meaner and more productive player with almost half the cap hit, plus we got the better pick and more useable 3rd asset.
We lsot this trade because we gave up the much better player. Players don't play in a vacuum, every situation is different. Rene Bourque scored 27 goals in back to back years for the flames, Montreal is a different story. Cammy scored 39 goals for the flames. His ceiling is way higher than Bourque's, way, way, way, way higher. Cammy is a struggling sniper, we traded him for a guy Feaster couldn't wait to move. We traded the best player in a lateral move that really failed on an opportunity to retool, instead we get more of the same, a player who's attitude stinks and doesn't play with passion. Great.

You don't judge a player based solely on statistics, you're insinuation that Rene Bourque is as good as cammy based on goals/hitting(hitting, Rene Bourque haha) ect is a farce. He isn't, they're in different situations, you judge this the same way you have with kaberle, but he got some points, he must be good. Rene Bourque does nothing to get this team closer to a cup, it's a trade for trades sake and nothing more.

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01-13-2012, 07:09 AM
  #922
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Cammy still said he is a better player today he was 3 years ago and not once mentioned he was to blame as well for Habs demise this season. I am not surprised he is a cancer in room. Damphousse also said he has a reputation as being the most selfish player, Gauthier who played with him said same thing, Alain Roy said something to the effect he has a big ego.

I think Gagnon is an honest journalist, no he might not be a Habs fan but doesn't mean he is on a mission to invent crap and write on it.
You don't think Jagr has an ego? My goodness, he's a sniper...he is a diva, this comes with the territory. I don't care if he has an ego or if he doesn't throw out the cliched answers. "I have to play better" is a cliche answer that half the time players don't even believe.

Cam was a cancer this year but not in his 1st year or last year? He was such a cancer in Calgary that they wanted him back? I think a lot of the media here talk a lot of crap and blow things out of proportion.

Gagnon is a hack. I hate him and I felt this way before the Cam incident.

Cam IS a better player. He isn't playing better but you're telling me he's not smarter now than he was 3 years ago?

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01-13-2012, 07:12 AM
  #923
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As a Leaf fan, we (leaf fans) can empathize what your fanbase is going through. Burke may have done some moves which have been criticized, but the 'gong show' days of JFJ are long gone.

From an outside perspective, your GM should not be allowed to do any more moves. He has locked too many mediocre players that have longer term contracts and while you have some decent prospects, there are not a lot of bluechippers in the system either. IMO, he should have just got prospects/picks for Cammalari. Bourque is decent, but he is not a difference maker and he has a long term contract (and is already 30 years of age). I also think that all of the drama/controversy is going to impact UFA signings in Montreal. Better be prepared to start to build within for a few years.

You do have a franchise goalie though. That can change things quickly (as long as Price wants to commit long term with all of the drama that is going on).
I agree with everything you've posted. Too bad my fellow habs fans aren't objective evaluators when it comes to their team. They feel if management makes poor moves it somehow reflects poorly on them, so it's their job to defend each and every move they make no matter how terrible. This move is pure garbage.

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01-13-2012, 07:15 AM
  #924
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You continue to prove with every post you have no freaking idea what you are talking about. This is an absolutely disgusting trade from a habs perspective. It gets us no closer to our coveted 8th place we love fighting for and it certainly does very little for the future. It was a blown opportunity to do the right thing. This GM needs to go now. Not in another week, but now. He's a freaking joke.


Just the second round pick alone can be worth this trade....especially if the Flames "flame out" next year with an ageing team....and end up being an early 2nd round pick....

To get a player on top with half the cap space and similar stats as Cammie over the last three years is nothing to freak about....in fact, its not bad at all....and reading this board, the clear majority is in agreement...

You seem to be grossly overrating a small player, with no grit upside, no defensive upsides, no speed upside, no playmaking upsides, no "veteran presence in the dressing room" upside, falling down each time he was hit/touched and a scorer that has not been scoring much in the last two years and has been piling up the bad plays.....

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01-13-2012, 07:15 AM
  #925
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Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
http://tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=384950

Very good article by Bobby Mac on the trade...

The regular season numbers are surprising, though. Shocking actually. To me, anyway. Mostly because Bourque, who incidentally is a half year older than Cammalleri, has a league-wide reputation for being an enigmatic underachiever who runs really hot and really cold

So someone needs to ask the question: Is it conceivable Gauthier has replaced Cammalleri's goals in the Canadiens' lineup, got bigger and tougher and done so while freeing up an additional $3 million in cap space, giving the Habs the equivalent of more than $8 million worth of cap room
I like what he said about Gauthier near the end of the article. Gauthier really has been acting in full blown panic mode all year and has all been lacking class towards the players and coaching staff. (firing people on game days or trading them mid-game.) At least Gainey had more patience and class than Gauthier will ever have. One can only hope that Molson wakes up before Gauthier buries this team more.

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