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Old
02-10-2012, 08:23 PM
  #226
Beef Invictus
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A player with a larger cap hit underperforming should be criticized more. Their cap space is being used badly if they aren't pulling their weight, and cap space is really important in the cap era; it is a major factor for determining what sort of team you can build, who you can keep, etc. Montreal fans wouldn't be nearly as upset about Gomez if his cap hit wasn't so large, for instance, and his 7mil or whatever could be used much more effectively elsewhere on that team.

So, yeah. When a player does badly it's frustrating. When an expensive player does badly, it's even more frustrating; especially when they play for a team that never has cap room, like ours.

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02-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
A player with a larger cap hit underperforming should be criticized more.
that is your opinion. that doesn't make it 'right'.

i expect excellence from the entire team.

doesn't make my way 'correct', either.

you use your criteria, i'll use mine.

i'm not playing fantasy GM. whoever Holmgren puts on the roster, for whatever contract terms, i expect a great effort and great results .... and will never label an NHL player a 'BUM'

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02-10-2012, 08:29 PM
  #228
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So you just ignore the fact that tying up a large cap hit in an ineffective player is of far greater detriment to the team than an ineffective player with a small cap hit?

These aren't really "opinions." This is a widely established and recognized principle. It's a reality of the NHL in the cap era.

Edit: getting the most bang for your cap-buck is absolutely vital. Giroux's performance relative to his low cap hit makes his value very high right now. Bryzgalov's underwhelming and inconsistent performance relative to his cap hit makes his value just about nil.

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02-10-2012, 08:36 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
then we agree they are about the same. does Bryz get a 'throw away the stats' game ?

if he did, then his stats would be even better than they are.
Bryz already has like 8 throw away games

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02-10-2012, 08:38 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974;43928201[B
]that is your opinion. that doesn't make it 'right'.
[/B]
i expect excellence from the entire team.

doesn't make my way 'correct', either.

you use your criteria, i'll use mine.

i'm not playing fantasy GM. whoever Holmgren puts on the roster, for whatever contract terms, i expect a great effort and great results .... and will never label an NHL player a 'BUM'
Its a fact. When you are getting paid to be a star, you should play like a star. Fact is, Bryz is not playing like a star and is getting outplayed by a guy that doesnt make anywhere close to what he is making. In the day and age of a cap, its absolutely stupid to be paying a guy over 5 million and have him be outplayed by someone not making a million dollars.

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02-10-2012, 08:40 PM
  #231
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I'm trying to figure out why it's such a big deal to call him a bum.

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02-10-2012, 08:48 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm trying to figure out why it's such a big deal to call him a bum.
Not even a four letter word.

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02-10-2012, 08:59 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
not like Bob flubbing the puck in his glove vs TOR, or coughing up the easy rebound to the Devils. those were BY FAR worse than Gaborik.

Being the other goalie in this conversation i really have to wonder how long you've been playing in net and at what level. In no universe is that a correct statement.

The goal you're talking about last night was a bad goal, but at least he had to fight traffic. The one against New Jersey, bad rebound, but he made the first save. Rebound control is a HUGE deal, i'm aware, but any goalie, goalie coach, defensemen will tell you it's the goalies' job to stop the first shot. Bryz has no excuse, and it's been a constant theme for him this year, and then he followed it up with a VERY bad goal.


This has nothing to do about what goalie is better, but your statement is 100% wrong.

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02-10-2012, 09:01 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
that is your opinion. that doesn't make it 'right'.

i expect excellence from the entire team.

doesn't make my way 'correct', either.

you use your criteria, i'll use mine.

i'm not playing fantasy GM. whoever Holmgren puts on the roster, for whatever contract terms, i expect a great effort and great results .... and will never label an NHL player a 'BUM'
Yeah, this just really makes no sense at all.

I can use my own criteria to say the grass is orange, but that doesn't make it any more true

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02-10-2012, 09:12 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slap Happy View Post
Its a fact. When you are getting paid to be a star, you should play like a star. Fact is, Bryz is not playing like a star and is getting outplayed by a guy that doesnt make anywhere close to what he is making. In the day and age of a cap, its absolutely stupid to be paying a guy over 5 million and have him be outplayed by someone not making a million dollars.
Your worth what someone is willing to pay you. so he's worth 51 million over 9 years. he's being paid that on past performance. He is starting to earn his money but you must still be watching games from november. have you seen a game in 2012? He's really the least of our problems at this point. get with it. just be glad leino didnt get rich off us and you better pray that we dont give matt carle that wisneiwski money he wants. Also, our cap problems arent all on his contract. Pronger takes up a decent chunk and has alot left with a probable career ending injury. sucks. briere isnt exactly tearing it up out there every night anymore. you cant live off the 2010 non cup winning playoffs forever. shelley. I'd rather us go through adversity and grow and get better than be great in the reguar season and get swept in the first round. i think all this stuff is happening for a greater good this year.

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02-10-2012, 09:19 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastate View Post
The goal you're talking about last night was a bad goal, but at least he had to fight traffic. The one against New Jersey, bad rebound, but he made the first save. Rebound control is a HUGE deal, i'm aware, but any goalie, goalie coach, defensemen will tell you it's the goalies' job to stop the first shot.
no. watch it from behind. no screen. right into his glove. far worse than the Gaborik goal, though I blame Bryz on that one.

as for goal #3 vs NJD, with 1 second left in the 1st period -- it was the result of a very weak point shot, Bob 'saved it' with his left leg pad - on the ice, instead of simply directing it into the corner with stick or pad, he coughed up the rebound to a Devil. Then he never attempted to get up, slid a bit to his left, and got beat top side. No doubt the Devils just threw that on net & hoped for exactly what he did. with so little time left in the period, you deflect it into the corner with your stick, or kick out VERY hard to put the rebound away from the Devil standing right there, or 'fulcrum' your stick back toward your pad, to hit the rebound far away [back toward the point, no risk, time running out]

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02-10-2012, 09:28 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Yeah, this just really makes no sense at all.
i can't fathom why you find it so confusing to comprehend that whoever Holmgren puts on the roster, for whatever contract terms, i expect a great effort and great results.

i root for EVERY Flyer, and expect them ALL to perform well.

right now, for the season, Bryz & Bob are just about even in my eyes -- because Bryz has picked up his play - he had a poor 2011.
Bob deserves to start Sat & keep playing if he performs well.

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02-10-2012, 09:33 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
Your worth what someone is willing to pay you. so he's worth 51 million over 9 years. he's being paid that on past performance. He is starting to earn his money but you must still be watching games from november. have you seen a game in 2012?
Yes, I have seen every game in 2012. He easily cost us the game against the Rangers with two terribly weak goals. He has been playing better, and its damn well he should be. Hes getting paid to be a top performer, start playing like one.
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He's really the least of our problems at this point. get with it. just be glad leino didnt get rich off us and you better pray that we dont give matt carle that wisneiwski money he wants. Also, our cap problems arent all on his contract. Pronger takes up a decent chunk and has alot left with a probable career ending injury. sucks. briere isnt exactly tearing it up out there every night anymore.
He is a worry. He is not playing the way he is capable. You hold your breathe on every shot on net, hoping it doesnt magically find a way to go through him like some goals have this season. Prongers cap hit isnt currently affecting us in anyway. So that point is moot.

Quote:
you cant live off the 2010 non cup winning playoffs forever.
Not even sure what this has to do with anything.

Quote:
shelley. I'd rather us go through adversity and grow and get better than be great in the reguar season and get swept in the first round. i think all this stuff is happening for a greater good this year.
This team will probably lose in the first round anyway. They dont match up well with many teams. Rangers own us, Bruins own us, Devils and Pens have been playing really well and if Marty gets his act together, both have better goalies than us.

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02-10-2012, 09:34 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
no. watch it from behind. no screen. right into his glove. far worse than the Gaborik goal, though I blame Bryz on that one.

as for goal #3 vs NJD, with 1 second left in the 1st period -- it was the result of a very weak point shot, Bob 'saved it' with his left leg pad - on the ice, instead of simply directing it into the corner with stick or pad, he coughed up the rebound to a Devil. Then he never attempted to get up, slid a bit to his left, and got beat top side. No doubt the Devils just threw that on net & hoped for exactly what he did. with so little time left in the period, you deflect it into the corner with your stick, or kick out VERY hard to put the rebound away from the Devil standing right there, or 'fulcrum' your stick back toward your pad, to hit the rebound far away [back toward the point, no risk, time running out]
It was a terrible goal. No way that shot should ever go in

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02-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #240
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This is a rebuild whether snider and holmgren wanted it or not.

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02-10-2012, 10:22 PM
  #241
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It's all about us not having the patience after all we've been through as flyers fans. It's hard to gut the team and watch it without some denial creeping in. people wanted bryzgalov to come in here and pitch shutouts and paint over the dirt ever night and thats just stupid. this team is a mess and i love laviolette but he's basically tryin to re implement his system to brand new players again but this time without the biggest piece. the guy that can jam a round peg in a square hole....pronger. Were no where near winning a cup. were years away again. we really shoulda won in 2010. sucks. I do like what were doin tho. i just hope pronger figures out what's up cause his cap aint affecting us but his contract his holding us hostage until we know what's up.

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02-11-2012, 11:25 AM
  #242
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hopefully Bob will break the schneid vs NYR & if he does well, we'll see him in vs DET

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02-11-2012, 12:21 PM
  #243
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Gotta love it when bush league goaltenders think they know how **** goes down in the NHL

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02-11-2012, 01:43 PM
  #244
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thanks for chiming in, Mr. PLante

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02-11-2012, 01:48 PM
  #245
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Bobo playing well.

Shame refs and special teams need to ruin it for him.

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02-11-2012, 02:05 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
A player with a larger cap hit underperforming should be criticized more. Their cap space is being used badly if they aren't pulling their weight, and cap space is really important in the cap era; it is a major factor for determining what sort of team you can build, who you can keep, etc. Montreal fans wouldn't be nearly as upset about Gomez if his cap hit wasn't so large, for instance, and his 7mil or whatever could be used much more effectively elsewhere on that team.

So, yeah. When a player does badly it's frustrating. When an expensive player does badly, it's even more frustrating; especially when they play for a team that never has cap room, like ours.

Haha Scott Gomez. The Rangers used his freed cap to sign Gaborik. The difference, 26 goals.

(This has nothing to do with Bryz just evaluating Bob alone)

For what it's worth I still think people overrate Bob. Bob gets the popular excuse of well the defense let him down. Reality is any NHL goalie is elite behind a great defense. Hence the Red Wings riding Osgood to a cup or the Hawks riding Niemi.

Great goalies will make the saves they have to as well as steal a few goals that they should not have a shot at. This is not Bob. Bob will occasionally let in bad angle and ugly goals and while he has the potential to make big saves he doesn't do it as frequently as other strong goalies do.

IMO Bob is just another Niittymaki. Will show flashes of greatness but is not sound enough to be a true #1.

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02-11-2012, 02:17 PM
  #247
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I completely agree with Bob being overrated here. I mean, I hope he improves, and would like nothing more than to have a great Russian goalie duo, but the the thing is, some people have posted TSN's goaltending rankings as proof Bryz sucks. Well, guess what, if they had us ranked behind Columbus, then not only does Bryz suck in their opinion, but Bob is worse than ****ing Sanford, as well. So both of them need to get their act together.

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02-11-2012, 02:23 PM
  #248
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sucks as bad as bryzgalov

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02-11-2012, 02:28 PM
  #249
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they're both ****

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02-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #250
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LOL

and by LOL I mean "The opinions above are ****ing stupid."

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