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In your opinion : is Montreal now a better or a worse team?

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Old
01-13-2012, 08:31 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Bourque doesn't want to be in MTL.

Just trust me on this one, it worked well with Gomez when we brought him to a place he really didn't want to be ..

Cammy lasted less than 3 years here.
No sure about that, everyone loves playing here until the media and fans jump on them. I think he will be fine

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01-13-2012, 08:31 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Bourque doesn't want to be in MTL.

Just trust me on this one, it worked well with Gomez when we brought him to a place he really didn't want to be ..

Cammy lasted less than 3 years here.


Dear God you just don't know when to stop. So now your telling me that you know Rene good enough to know what he's thinking?

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01-13-2012, 08:33 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
And that's without knowing what is going to happen with the Cap. Some people are saying it will be going down about 2 million. What I don't understand is why he then pulled the Kaberle trade when he could have saved 4. All that to try and save the season, he could have went after a player that like Spacek would have also become an UFA at season end
Then it's a wash. We lost cap space with the Kaberle trade - we gained it with the Cammalleri trade. If we need to, we'll gain it or lose it again somewhere else down the road. I reallly don't get what the issue is here.

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01-13-2012, 08:35 AM
  #104
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Can we sign Paul Mara and trade Gill for a pick at deadline, and trade Campoli for a solid grinder.

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01-13-2012, 08:36 AM
  #105
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We should know soon.

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Old
01-13-2012, 08:36 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Then it's a wash. We lost cap space with the Kaberle trade - we gained it with the Cammalleri trade. If we need to, we'll gain it or lose it again somewhere else down the road. I reallly don't get what the issue is here.
The issue is we ain't that good of a team and the addition of Kaberle in December wasn't going to save the season so why trade for him and take on a bad contract, again

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01-13-2012, 08:37 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
No sure about that, everyone loves playing here until the media and fans jump on them. I think he will be fine
Just go the the Calgary puck fourm and read the hate toward Bourque from the fans..

Now you know Montreal....


So how long does a honeymoon last?

LOL


Diaster ,you can see it coming ..

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01-13-2012, 08:37 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Skarjak View Post
Short term, we have not improved or gotten significantly worse.

Long term, we are a worse team. Cammalleri would eventually return to form, probably.

Put it this way: at his worst, Cammalleri = Bourque.

People keep mentioning how we got bigger, but Bourque doesn't use his size. The team is hardly tougher now.
Bourque has 48 hits in 38 games, Cammy has 7 in the same period of time plus 5'9" 183lbs vs 6'2" 213lbs so we have gotten massively better in the physical department.

Even if Cammy returns to form, how much will he outscore Bourque by? Bourque scores 27 a year(last 2 plus on pace for that much this year), if Cammy goes to 30 it still doesn't offset adding size and physicality. PLUS the extra cap room(6.0 mil vs 3.3 mil) , the 2nd rounder and prospect.

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01-13-2012, 08:39 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post


Dear God you just don't know when to stop. So now your telling me that you know Rene good enough to know what he's thinking?
you ever read faces?

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01-13-2012, 08:39 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Just go the the Calgary puck fourm and read the hate toward Bourque from the fans..

Now you know Montreal....


So how long does a honeymoon last?

LOL


Diaster ,you can see it coming ..
Read the comments on here about anybody. Some people want to dump Subban, complain about Desharnais, didn't like the Cole signing. On these boards Gauthier could trade Gomez for Stamkos and some would still complain taht he didn't clear cap space instead.

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01-13-2012, 08:39 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
"Buy high, sell low": the Gauthier way.
Think again. We signed Cammy as a UFA. We bought him for no assets. Try again.

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01-13-2012, 08:40 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post


Dear God you just don't know when to stop. So now your telling me that you know Rene good enough to know what he's thinking?
In all honesty though, if you looked at Bourque's press conference, he looked extremely disappointed. The only time he ever smiled was when joking about the French issue. He doesn't seem too happy to be coming here, but then again he might just still be shocked.

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01-13-2012, 08:42 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The issue is we ain't that good of a team and the addition of Kaberle in December wasn't going to save the season so why trade for him and take on a bad contract, again
Kaberle isn't a bad contract. He was playing like garbage the first 2 months, but he is back to producing at a 50 point pace since then. We can move Kaberle at the deadline or the draft if needed, so it's a non issue...except for you because you have an agenda and want to spread your propaganda that Gauthier loses every trade and every player he's signed is garbage.

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01-13-2012, 08:43 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Then it's a wash. We lost cap space with the Kaberle trade - we gained it with the Cammalleri trade. If we need to, we'll gain it or lose it again somewhere else down the road. I reallly don't get what the issue is here.
Kaberle's cap hit affects us if we want to get rid of him. We can deal with his cap hit right now, but another team might not.

He's not the type of player we want around in a rebuild scenario. His second assists don't compensate for losing a roster spot that could be filled with someone faster, more physical and younger.

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01-13-2012, 08:44 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
"Buy high, sell low": the Gauthier way.
Yeah cause those 3 prospects and 4 draft picks he cost us...wait we got him for free...good call!

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01-13-2012, 08:45 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Skarjak View Post
In all honesty though, if you looked at Bourque's press conference, he looked extremely disappointed. The only time he ever smiled was when joking about the French issue. He doesn't seem too happy to be coming here, but then again he might just still be shocked.
He looked shocked IMHO, which is understandable.

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01-13-2012, 08:47 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Kaberle's cap hit affects us if we want to get rid of him. We can deal with his cap hit right now, but another team might not.

He's not the type of player we want around in a rebuild scenario. His second assists don't compensate for losing a roster spot that could be filled with someone faster, more physical and younger.
Like who? Can we start proposing actual solutions?

-"We gave up cap space"
-"Why is that important?"
-"We could have signed somebody else!"
-"Who?"
-"Somebody!"

We just got rid of Cammalleri 9 goal/$6m contract, which many experts here said was 'unmoveable'. I really don't think Kaberle's is going to be a hinderance if we need to get rid of it too.

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01-13-2012, 08:47 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
you might want to read this thread posts 4 and 9
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1079455
I could write up a similar thing for Cammy. What's your point?

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01-13-2012, 08:49 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Kaberle isn't a bad contract. He was playing like garbage the first 2 months, but he is back to producing at a 50 point pace since then. We can move Kaberle at the deadline or the draft if needed, so it's a non issue...except for you because you have an agenda and want to spread your propaganda that Gauthier loses every trade and every player he's signed is garbage.
Read before you post. I always posted from day 1 that I liked the Eller for Halak trade just thought we could get more, go find a posts were I said he got screwed on that deal, is wanting more a bad thing?

Same for last night I never said this was a bad deal, it's pretty much a wash and I don't mind the deal at all. So don't put words in my mouth cause that's all you do around here

Gauthier himself not me MR.GAUTHIER said last night we need to get bigger, the guy has no clue how to manage a team and has no identity going forward. If he wanted to get bigger and stronger he wouldn't have traded for one of the softest players in the league in Kaberle just a few weeks ago.

If you can't see that then I feel bad for you, keep believing in Mr. Gauthier, the guy is a freaking moron

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01-13-2012, 08:58 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Like who? Can we start proposing actual solutions?

-"We gave up cap space"
-"Why is that important?"
-"We could have signed somebody else!"
-"Who?"
-"Somebody!"

We just got rid of Cammalleri 9 goal/$6m contract, which many experts here said was 'unmoveable'. I really don't think Kaberle's is going to be a hinderance if we need to get rid of it too.
Kaberle has value...despite what people say. The guy got a ransom last year and because of 20 games of bad play in carolina he has none? We can move him if we want to, granted not at some great value but he's shown that his words about not having a full summer to get in shape were true. He looks similar to his old form now with 13 pts in last 16GP. Odds are if he keeps it up throughout the year someone in the summer might consider his contract but obviously not at a great return.

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Old
01-13-2012, 09:01 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kaberle has value...despite what people say. The guy got a ransom last year and because of 20 games of bad play in carolina he has none? We can move him if we want to, granted not at some great value but he's shown that his words about not having a full summer to get in shape were true. He looks similar to his old form now with 13 pts in last 16GP. Odds are if he keeps it up throughout the year someone in the summer might consider his contract but obviously not at a great return.
I really hope so but doubt he gets moved. Hopefully I'm wrong I don't see Kaberle being much help in the next 2 years here

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01-13-2012, 09:01 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Like who? Can we start proposing actual solutions?

-"We gave up cap space"
-"Why is that important?"
-"We could have signed somebody else!"
-"Who?"
-"Somebody!"

We just got rid of Cammalleri 9 goal/$6m contract, which many experts here said was 'unmoveable'. I really don't think Kaberle's is going to be a hinderance if we need to get rid of it too.
Exactly


Not to mention we gave up Spacek for him. A 37yo oft injured cap and on-ice liability for Kaberle who could possibly help the PP and be a replacement for a Markov that may never return.


And, worst case scenario, you can trade Kaberle to anyone for very little or just bury him in the minors to free up cap space.

A gamble, yes, but at least one that had better odds than keeping the Spacegoat.

And to the "cap space is better than an NHL player" types. If you can tell me how the Cap and/or CBA will shake out for next season right now I will personally pay for your next hooker.

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Old
01-13-2012, 09:04 AM
  #123
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This move will take atleast 10 games before we can say this was great or not, however this just proves we are sellers. The next game we'll have No Cammy, No Gio, No Bourque, Odds of winning? Not that good.

I think Bourques style of play could benefit better he as opposed to Calgary, but he has to be prepared to become a primary scorer for Habs rather than Secondary

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01-13-2012, 09:08 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
And that's without knowing what is going to happen with the Cap. Some people are saying it will be going down about 2 million. What I don't understand is why he then pulled the Kaberle trade when he could have saved 4. All that to try and save the season, he could have went after a player that like Spacek would have also become an UFA at season end
exactly why the Kaberle trade made little sense, value-wise, as it was.

I'm not against the notion of trying to address the PP by bringing in a guy like Kaberle (even if i disagree that adding a PP-capable dman was as big a need as other areas), the problem was the deal itself.

Spacek's greatest value was in his expiring contract, and Kaberle's biggest negative is in the 8.5M$ in cap he ties up over the next 2 seasons (on top of both of them playing bad hockey to start the season).

given that situation, it's absurd that we traded them 1-for-1... a smart/saavy GM would have managed to get something + in that deal from the canes, be it in the form of draft pick/prospect.

isolated, it's not THAT big of a screw up, but unfortunately for us it's reflective of a problem that has plagued the habs under both Gainey and Gauthier...

managing your assets isn't just about filling immediate needs, a major part of it is in getting the most value out of your assets that you possibly can, and balancing that with addressing immediate/short term needs.

Gauthier, like a guy playing NHL2012 on his xbox, seems content to simply make moves for the sake of it & in isolation.

over time, when you add the cumulative effect of constantly getting pennies on the dollar in your asset moves, you end up with an on-ice product that is "broke" (or, like us, much much closer to being dead last in the conference than anywhere near the top)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Then it's a wash. We lost cap space with the Kaberle trade - we gained it with the Cammalleri trade. If we need to, we'll gain it or lose it again somewhere else down the road. I reallly don't get what the issue is here.
right... and with a mediocre team posting mediocre results, we need a GM capable of doing better than straddling the middle in his asset moves. we need a GM capable of pushing the ledger in our favor.

otherwise, continued mediocrity is the only result we can expect.

the issue is, some of us are sick and tired of settling for the status quo... settling for "a wash"... settling for the mediocrity that has been our standard for the bulk of the past 10-15 years.

if the point of the organization and it's management isn't to do better than that, what's the point?

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Old
01-13-2012, 09:31 AM
  #125
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stop trying to defend Gauthier....

He didn't shop him leauge wide..which guarantee's you don't get the best return on a top 6 asset.

What kinda philosophy is that?
Well someone has to.

I'm not PG's biggest fan, but you guys throw the guy under the bus using just speculation.

My point is, Cammy couldn't be traded league wide, so maybe that's why he didn't shop him league wide. Just because TSN says they talked to A GM who didn't know he was available, doesn't mean that 20 other GMs didn't know.

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