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[MTL/CGY] Cammalleri, Rämö & 2012 5th for Bourque, Holland & 2013 2nd ‎(Part II)

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Old
01-13-2012, 01:57 PM
  #276
Richiebottles
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My take on the trade:

http://hockeybusts.blogspot.com/2012...eri-trade.html

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01-13-2012, 01:58 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
If anything, the trade allowed this thread to exist, which is an invaluable tool in updating my ignore list.
I never knew who you were before today, if you can't handle a difference of opinion, i'd like to be first on your list please.

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01-13-2012, 01:59 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
We need tougher guys on defense. Get rid of Gill. He is useless now. Campoli can go fly a kite too. Diaz shows some promise but he's a whimp when it comes to the rough stuff.
I would definitely keep Diaz around. But yeah I think we need to add some reliable tough dmen. That is what I would look for on the free agent market right away. And with Markov having barely played in two years, we may need a new number 1 guy. Takes a lot longer to develop that kind of talent.

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01-13-2012, 01:59 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Buddah!

WE GAVE CALGARY a 5th!

They gave us back a 2ND....



we didnt get a PURE 2ND ..

We got the right to move up 3 ROUNDS!!!

That is it ..


Your in a line in 5 spot...i say hey Budda come take my spot in 2nd...You moved up 3 SPOTS..
Your know in 2nd I'm in 5th .

That's all the Habs got for Cammy...JUNK
This might be the dumbest analogy I've ever seen in my life.

It's also wrong.

It'd be like someone being 33rd in line and you being 160th in line. But good job on the math skills.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:00 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Again,

this is a crazy thinking..

How many guy did Gretzky out hit?

Trying to compare hits between Bourque and Cammy? LOL

Hitting wasn't Cammy's game so what!

But when you dress the all smurf team??? It stands out, and you got crazy people thinking he should be a rugged forward ...
So now you are comparing Cammy with Gretzky? If Cammy scored like Wayne Gretzky no one would complain about his hits but he was scoring more like Dave Semenko.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:01 PM
  #281
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The timing of this trade makes zero sense. Disregarding Pierre ******** comments that its been in the works for a month...

Your losing a hockey game and you take out your best goal scorer (yes he has been struggling mightily but he still is a potential gamebreaker)
on a team that is already desperate for goals. AND THEN you trade for a guy who is currently still under suspension and cannot play tomorrow night. AND THEN you trade Cammy when his value is at an all time low, AND before that you don't even make it known around the league that he is available to drive up his offer price.

Nice work Pierre.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Teztify View Post
This was already said, but it's nothing like moving up in a line from 5th to 2nd. It's moving up in a line from #150 to #50. Look back to 2007. We drafted PK Subban in the 2nd round. You know who we took in the 5th? Joe Stejskal.

Yeah, I guess the 2nd is junk. *facepalm*

Your all trying to get excited about a 2nd round pick that we payed a 5th round for ????


tell me what we got for this ?come back to reality...

Latendrsse 2nd round
Ben Maxwell 2nd round
Matt Carle 2nd round
Cory Urqhart 2nd round
Lapierre 2nd round
Tomas Linhart 2nd round
Duncan Milroy 2nd round

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #283
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I think the worst part of the trade is that I can't tell if Gauthier is hoping this team makes a run to the playoffs still, or if he's starting a rebuild.

Did he bring in Bourque to score more goals than Cammy, or did he bring him in for cap relief.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:02 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
I dont want goons....


I want MEANER PLAYERS....
Rene Bourque is a mean player. Has quite a few dirty plays that caused injuries under his belt.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Once again. Cammy was traded for a late 1st round pick after a tremendous year by LA without a 6 million dollar contract.

What makes you think that he should get you more than Bourque, a 2nd, and a prospect NOW?

Because some "experts on TV told you so?"
Every "expert" has said that we could've gotten more. This isn't the foundation of my belief, it simply reinforces it.

Unlike yourself who has nothing to back himself up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The last time I checked, a 2nd round pick is a pick and Patrick Holland is a prospect.
The last time I checked, a 2nd rounder has about a 25-30 percent chance of becoming an NHL player and Holland is a marginal prospect who might not even have an NHL career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Second to think no salary would be coming back is just stupid.
Go read my posts. I never said we shouldn't take salary back. That's fine. We could've even taken back a bad contract as long as the term was short. Bottom line though is that we had to get GOOD picks and prospects and we didn't do this. We've wasted another asset with a lateral move that doesn't get us any younger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It's a band-aid, but like you said, if Bourque is worse, won't we continue to lose and get the high pick like you want?
No. That's the thing with band-aids... they stop the bleeding. This trade is going to keep us mediocre, it probably won't make us worse. There is an outside shot that we could even go on a mini run and just miss the playoffs and that's just about the worst thing that could happen to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
A producing Cammalleri without the reputation of a rotten attitude(which former players are now coming out and talking about it) is worth a lot more. Cammalleri hasn't shown much these last two years and has acted like a little ***** since Gionta was awarded the C.

FFS the first time Cammalleri was traded he was coming off a pretty good year and didn't have as big a contract and only got a late first. What the hell did you expect for Cammy? RNH? You expect to get more, when he's played worse and is not playing up to his contract in which the salary exceeds the cap hit for the next couple of years?
Every time we deal somebody away we spin it into him being a cancer in the locker room. Well, we just traded for a cancer only with less talent and slightly older so how does this do anything but replace old problems with new ones?

Cammy is a legit first line sniper. He's having an awful season but he should be worth at least a first rounder. And like I've been saying for months, if clubs aren't willing to do this then we should tell them to go jump in the lake and just keep him.

There was no need to make this move. Bourque is actually known as a problem child with work ethic problems. He's actually older than Cammy and has a longer contract. It's a lateral move that ties us to mediocrity even longer than Cammy did. Why make this move?

The reason... we let petty things like players speaking out force our hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Maybe not, but capspace isn't only essential for UFAs, it is also required to keep your improving young players (pacioretty, Eller, Subban and Price) and you can agree taht keeping these players is essential for success. Funny how people have overlooked this aspect of the capspace argument when it was the very thing they have been arguing about for weeks since the Kaberle trade. Gauthier made the cap space you guys were mad we didn't have.
If we're so worried about cap space, then why did we deal for Kaberle? Seriously man, it's almost like we're going down the highway driving backwards. It's all reactive panic moves and we're going to suffer for this down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If it's a lateral move then we shouldn't expect the team to win more than it has, so effectively, we're heading for a lottery pick while acquiring a 2nd a prospect and a player who will produce at the rate Cammalleri has for half the value allowing us to retain the young players which everyone cried weren't going to be able to be retained because they traded for Kaberle. Horrible ****ing deal.
Again, you are missing the point. We gave up an asset for next to nothing and actually extended our commitment to another problem player. How does this in any way help us to win a cup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
But what if Gauthier and the Habs wanted to lower their cap hit and also receive a pick which they got. We never will find out but I honesty don't think we would have gotten much from anyone else
So then keep Cammaleri. Why are we selling low on this guy anyway? The season is lost and we could wait until the deadline to see if teams are desperate, we could've waited until the summer or the draft or next year... why make a desperate move now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Last time I checked, we got a 2nd and a prospect in the trade. Also, I doubt that Cammalleri's value was as high as you think. Any trade had to involve salary coming back our way, so we couldn't simply ask for 2-3 picks and prospects.
See my "last time I checked" response above. You aren't looking at the right facts dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
This trade (like every trade) will take time to assess. We need to see what the team will do with the $2.7M cap savings and with the 2nd round pick. Hopefully Calgary will continue to suck and the trade will be somewhere near the 40th overall.
We can assess it right now based on the information we have. Sure, the 2nd round pick might result in the next Guy Lafleur but that is luck, not planning.

The trade isn't horrible on the surface level, it just doesn't address our real needs. It's another wasted asset and another desperate attempt to make 8th place instead of trying to build a winner. That's why this trade sucks.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
This might be the dumbest analogy I've ever seen in my life.

It's also wrong.

It'd be like someone being 33rd in line and you being 160th in line. But good job on the math skills.
+100

I think someone doesn't understand how the draft works!

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Again,

this is a crazy thinking..

How many guy did Gretzky out hit?

Trying to compare hits between Bourque and Cammy? LOL

Hitting wasn't Cammy's game so what!

But when you dress the all smurf team??? It stands out, and you got crazy people thinking he should be a rugged forward ...


nutts.
dude...are you seriously comparing Cammy to #99??

Quote:
Trying to compare hits between Bourque and Cammy? LOL

Hitting wasn't Cammy's game so what!
ok...so lets let Bob McKenzie make the comparison between what Cammy's game was about...GOALS!

Quote:
In two-plus seasons as a Canadien, Cammalleri has 54 goals in 169 regular season games. A goal-per-game average of .32.

In the exact same time period with the Flames, Bourque has 67 goals in 191 games. That's 13 more goals in 22 more games, or a goal-per-game average of .35, .03 better than Cammalleri.
so looks like Bourque wins out in both categories over the past 2.5 years...hits AND goals.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:05 PM
  #288
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I still don't know what to think.

I haven't been a fan of Cammy's play as of late obviously, but I still think we could have done better.

But that's still my early reaction. Time will tell if it's a good deal.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:05 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
I think the worst part of the trade is that I can't tell if Gauthier is hoping this team makes a run to the playoffs still, or if he's starting a rebuild.

Did he bring in Bourque to score more goals than Cammy, or did he bring him in for cap relief.
Both. And he also added a 2nd round draft pick. He's covering his ass for all 3 situations, which is not to shabby of a move IMO.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:06 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Adam91 View Post
The timing of this trade makes zero sense. Disregarding Pierre ******** comments that its been in the works for a month...

Your losing a hockey game and you take out your best goal scorer (yes he has been struggling mightily but he still is a potential gamebreaker)
on a team that is already desperate for goals. AND THEN you trade for a guy who is currently still under suspension and cannot play tomorrow night. AND THEN you trade Cammy when his value is at an all time low, AND before that you don't even make it known around the league that he is available to drive up his offer price.

Nice work Pierre.
This as been a season full of makes zero sense things happening with the Habs.. Sadly I expect even more makes zero sense things to happen yet.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:08 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Sined View Post
+100

I think someone doesn't understand how the draft works!
No, YOU don't get it.
MTL trades Rd. 5 and gets Rd. 2

Round 5 - Round 2
= Round 5 - Round 2
= 5 - 2
= 3

So it's like moving up by 3 spots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:08 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Lyfe View Post
dude...are you seriously comparing Cammy to #99??



ok...so lets let Bob McKenzie make the comparison between what Cammy's game was about...GOALS!



so looks like Bourque wins out in both categories over the past 2.5 years...hits AND goals.

Mike Knuble has scored more goals that Cammy or Bourque

Is he better?

Knuble

29
27
29
from 2007 to 2010

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:09 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
No, YOU don't get it.
MTL trades Rd. 5 and gets Rd. 2

Round 5 - Round 2
= Round 5 - Round 2
= 5 - 2
= 3

So it's like moving up by 3 spots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lmfao!

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:10 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
You don't know the difference of mean....vs stupid

Bourque was stupid 2 times in a month ..
What is mean then? Enlighten me please.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:11 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Every "expert" has said that we could've gotten more. This isn't the foundation of my belief, it simply reinforces it.

Unlike yourself who has nothing to back himself up with.

The last time I checked, a 2nd rounder has about a 25-30 percent chance of becoming an NHL player and Holland is a marginal prospect who might not even have an NHL career.

Go read my posts. I never said we shouldn't take salary back. That's fine. We could've even taken back a bad contract as long as the term was short. Bottom line though is that we had to get GOOD picks and prospects and we didn't do this. We've wasted another asset with a lateral move that doesn't get us any younger.

No. That's the thing with band-aids... they stop the bleeding. This trade is going to keep us mediocre, it probably won't make us worse. There is an outside shot that we could even go on a mini run and just miss the playoffs and that's just about the worst thing that could happen to us.

Every time we deal somebody away we spin it into him being a cancer in the locker room. Well, we just traded for a cancer only with less talent and slightly older so how does this do anything but replace old problems with new ones?

Cammy is a legit first line sniper. He's having an awful season but he should be worth at least a first rounder. And like I've been saying for months, if clubs aren't willing to do this then we should tell them to go jump in the lake and just keep him.

There was no need to make this move. Bourque is actually known as a problem child with work ethic problems. He's actually older than Cammy and has a longer contract. It's a lateral move that ties us to mediocrity even longer than Cammy did. Why make this move?

The reason... we let petty things like players speaking out force our hands.

If we're so worried about cap space, then why did we deal for Kaberle? Seriously man, it's almost like we're going down the highway driving backwards. It's all reactive panic moves and we're going to suffer for this down the line.


Again, you are missing the point. We gave up an asset for next to nothing and actually extended our commitment to another problem player. How does this in any way help us to win a cup?

So then keep Cammaleri. Why are we selling low on this guy anyway? The season is lost and we could wait until the deadline to see if teams are desperate, we could've waited until the summer or the draft or next year... why make a desperate move now?

See my "last time I checked" response above. You aren't looking at the right facts dude.

We can assess it right now based on the information we have. Sure, the 2nd round pick might result in the next Guy Lafleur but that is luck, not planning.

The trade isn't horrible on the surface level, it just doesn't address our real needs. It's another wasted asset and another desperate attempt to make 8th place instead of trying to build a winner. That's why this trade sucks.
Thank you LafleursGuy, this, this, this and this.

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01-13-2012, 02:11 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Mike Knuble has scored more goals that Cammy or Bourque in last 2.5 years 3 years.

Is he better?
What's the meaning, really ?

What counts is : how is the player is VALUABLE to his team.

After all it's a team game. Cammy was not, and is not a team player.

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01-13-2012, 02:13 PM
  #297
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I think you're both wrong to be honest.

Leave it to the professionals when it comes to stuff like this.


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01-13-2012, 02:14 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
What's the meaning, really ?

What counts is : how is the player is VALUABLE to his team.

After all it's a team game. Cammy was not, and is not a team player.
Most Calgary fans are happy RB is gone...

Great value

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01-13-2012, 02:15 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by 68 View Post
I think you're both wrong to be honest.

Leave it to the professionals when it comes to stuff like this.

101 or 100?

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Buddah!

WE GAVE CALGARY a 5th!

They gave us back a 2ND....



we didnt get a PURE 2ND ..

We got the right to move up 3 ROUNDS!!!

That is it ..


Your in a line in 5 spot...i say hey Budda come take my spot in 2nd...You moved up 3 SPOTS..
Your know in 2nd I'm in 5th .

That's all the Habs got for Cammy...JUNK
I'll give you 4th,5th,6th and 7th round for a 1st and 2nd!

you get 2 free picks and I only move up by 3 spots!
just because i like you, I give you the 6th round extra for the season after

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