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[MTL/CGY] Cammalleri, Rämö & 2012 5th for Bourque, Holland & 2013 2nd ‎(Part II)

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Old
01-13-2012, 10:42 AM
  #26
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One thing bothers me about this trade, if Gauthier wasn't in such a rush to pull the trigger on this trade, and had waited until this morning, wouldnt Bourque has served his last game yesterday as a Flames' and be allowed to play Saturday?

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01-13-2012, 10:44 AM
  #27
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When I saw this trade this morning on the NHL Network as I was getting ready for work, I thought holy crap that's actually a better return then I thought we'd get. I like the trade since I couldn't stand Cammy and wanted us to sign Bourque when he was a Senior in the NCAA (here's a article I wrote for Habsworld.net 8 years ago, http://habsworld.net/article.php?id=293, at the bottom I talk about Bourque after watching him at Wisconsin as an undrafted FA).

So the Habs save 2M in total dollars over the life of the two contracts as Cammy is owed 14M after this season and Bourque is owed 12M, but the Habs save close to 2.7M a year in cap space next season and the following since the difference of their cap hits (6M - 3.33M)

I like the 2nd rounder next year, hopefully the Flames are worse next season so the pick will be higher. I've heard a lot of good things about next years draft so as long as we keep the pick I like it.

Don't know much about Holland and I'm surprised they added another prospect that will be turning pro this summer as Hamilton is going to be very crowded unless other trades are made. If Tri City makes the Memorial Cup (top rated team in the CHL I believe) it should be fun to see him against our other prospects at the M Cup at least.

Will be interesting to see if the Flames can get Ramo to come over or not, doesn't look like we would have seen him with the Habs ever so not a loss there despite our weak goalie prospect depth.
Some of the guys in Hamilton are in the last year of contracts or playing for their future...Willsie Callahan Stafford Mitera Fortier Bishop Lawson masse Henry, some of those guys won't be back as guys like Gallagher Kristo Ellis Bournival Holland Beaulieu Pateryn will get regular ice time.

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01-13-2012, 10:44 AM
  #28
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One thing bothers me about this trade, if Gauthier wasn't in such a rush to pull the trigger on this trade, and had waited until this morning, wouldnt Bourque has served his last game yesterday as a Flames' and be allowed to play Saturday?
nope, last night counted as game #4 because he was traded AFTER the Flames game had begun

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01-13-2012, 10:47 AM
  #29
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nope, last night counted as game #4 because he was traded AFTER the Flames game had begun
thanks

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01-13-2012, 10:50 AM
  #30
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@habsjunkie2

I never once posted in the Cammalleri comments about the team thread, so I don't see what you are accusing me of.

I pretty much felt that once Cammalleri made those comments that he sealed the deal here.

I really don't understand how people think you could have gotten anything more for a 6 million diminuitive sniper who hasn't played well and now has reported attitude problems with 3 teams. Calgary fans complained about his attitude, LA fans have and now Habs fans.

It's been a while that we've all expected Cammalleri to be traded, let's not beat around the bush here.

I really never thought Cammalleri was gonna get more than a late 1st/2nd round pick a mid level prospect. The first time he was traded from LA all he got was a 1st round pick and he didn't have that contract attatch to him/
My mistake, I wasn't really accusing you of anything. I wasn't sure and said, if so, how can you defend this. I assumed you were, because you usually defend most moves and side with posters that are similar to you.

Before the media comments, I don't know how a single poster could say they knew Cammy was to be traded. I don't buy it one bit.

As far as Cammy's value. I think he could of garnered a 1st rd pick without a doubt. He has proven himself since his trade from LA, albeit he has struggled mightily here at times. He's still a sniper with value, bad contract and all. IMO, he had the most value of the three and when on was the biggest game changer we had.

I don't criticize moving him, but I find in Montreal, more specifically with this BG/PG regime, we react way too quickly with so-called trouble makers and sell them at the inappropriate time.

This team is going nowhere. What was the hurry? I thought since they yanked him from a game it must of been a pretty good trade to be done so urgently, but then found out, we got someone elses less talented headache. That being said, I wanted to move Cammy myself, but in a direction of futures. I think we could of made a trade of the Lars Eller variety without a doubt. A young, NHL prospect from a team with a deep pool, but instead PG thinks we can still make the playoffs, lol.

The guy is out to lunch, so he makes a lateral move that he believes will help continue spinning the tires with 8th place finishes, this is not the direction this team should be going. We didn't need a player to help us now, we needed a player to help us later, there is no fixing this now. It was most certainly a lost opportunity, this reaction of not doing his due diligence and evaluating the situation properly is becoming increasingly concerning. There is no may he could of properly evaluated the market within 24hrs, zero. If you think Cammy was on the move prior to the comments in the media, I think PG has got you hook, line and sinker.

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01-13-2012, 10:55 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
If you think Cammy was on the move prior to the comments in the media, I think PG has got you hook, line and sinker.
I could definitely buy that.

Timing does seem funny, but at the same time favor with Cammy had been falling to an all time low with everyone here well before the comments. It's not outlandish to assume that management was as frustrated as a lot of people were with Cammy.

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01-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #32
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I cannot believe that people are upset with this trade....YOU GOT CAMMALLERI FOR NOTHING!!!! Just because the guy put pen to paper on a huge contract does not entitle us to get the world for him in trade. Any return for the guy is a plus since it looks like we are going to Fail for Nail.

We save almost 3M in cap space a year....we get a player who has comparable stats to Cammy over the past 3 years....we get a player who is bigger and not afraid to get his nose dirty....

Cammy was not working out here. In fact, outside of the first season and playoff he has been horrible. He was hurting the team almost every time he was on the ice. He was a frightened puppy out there and anyone who didn't see that, doesn't know hockey.

The fan base always gripes about not having size and now we complain when we actually get some. The team is starting to become on par size wise with the rest of the league. Pacioretty-Cole-Moen-Kostitsyn-Bourque-Eller are all good sized guys who actually let you know they are on the ice. They are a good start to get this team physically competitive.

The only thing I can understand people complaining about is Gauthier not shopping him around a little more. But I am happy with the return, but then again I would have given that scared little kitty away for a bag of pucks.

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01-13-2012, 11:05 AM
  #33
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sorry if this was already mentioned in Part 1 or elsewhere, but the reason why we didnt get Calgary's 2nd round pick for THIS year is because Buffalo got it in the Regehr trade.

Calgary acquires:
Chris Butler
Paul Byron

Buffalo acquires:
Robyn Regehr
Ales Kotalik
2nd round pick in 2012

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:07 AM
  #34
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Am I the only one that love this deal.

Cammy have a huge contract.
We just save 2.7 million.
We got rid of one small player.
We got a bigger one.

We got a prospect for a guy never coming back in the nhl unless he got a starting job and he's making like 4m in the KHL so he ain't coming back.

And we got a second in 2013..

Good trade

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:09 AM
  #35
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Cant wait the day Gomez is gonna be traded or bought out, I'm sure theres gonna be whiners everyone saying how we got fleeced. Some people here.come too often or listen to so much hockey shows or journalist that they can't get a personnal idea on a subject, they just follow the pack of sheep when someone gets traded. For those saying we could gave gotten better for cammy forget it, he had an NMC wih oy 7 team, which means if calgary was allone in the mix its because they were the only one willing to taie the salary & the risk of getting cammy this season. But oh yeah I forgot, quebecers tends to live in the past 'je me souviens' of the playoffs with cammy. Get the **** over it, he's just a lazy ass player doing nothing at all on the ice & talks like he has a career year. This move sends a message to the locker room that slackers will not be tolerated no more in this team, and surely not players who talk out his team like he did that night. But hey guys he can have all the ****** season he wants, he can float, he has 29 poits in 26 playoff games.

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01-13-2012, 11:10 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
My mistake, I wasn't really accusing you of anything. I wasn't sure and said, if so, how can you defend this. I assumed you were, because you usually defend most moves and side with posters that are similar to you.

Before the media comments, I don't know how a single poster could say they knew Cammy was to be traded. I don't buy it one bit.

As far as Cammy's value. I think he could of garnered a 1st rd pick without a doubt. He has proven himself since his trade from LA, albeit he has struggled mightily here at times. He's still a sniper with value, bad contract and all. IMO, he had the most value of the three and when on was the biggest game changer we had.

I don't criticize moving him, but I find in Montreal, more specifically with this BG/PG regime, we react way too quickly with so-called trouble makers and sell them at the inappropriate time.

This team is going nowhere. What was the hurry? I thought since they yanked him from a game it must of been a pretty good trade to be done so urgently, but then found out, we got someone elses less talented headache. That being said, I wanted to move Cammy myself, but in a direction of futures. I think we could of made a trade of the Lars Eller variety without a doubt. A young, NHL prospect from a team with a deep pool, but instead PG thinks we can still make the playoffs, lol.

The guy is out to lunch, so he makes a lateral move that he believes will help continue spinning the tires with 8th place finishes, this is not the direction this team should be going. We didn't need a player to help us now, we needed a player to help us later, there is no fixing this now. It was most certainly a lost opportunity, this reaction of not doing his due diligence and evaluating the situation properly is becoming increasingly concerning. There is no may he could of properly evaluated the market within 24hrs, zero. If you think Cammy was on the move prior to the comments in the media, I think PG has got you hook, line and sinker.
Cmom now, let's not act like we've been expecting Cammy to be gone for a while. Every other week there was a new thread on the trades board about moving Cammy because everyone had pointed out that he had fallen out of favor here.

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01-13-2012, 11:10 AM
  #37
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I cannot believe that people are upset with this trade....YOU GOT CAMMALLERI FOR NOTHING!!!! Just because the guy put pen to paper on a huge contract does not entitle us to get the world for him in trade. Any return for the guy is a plus since it looks like we are going to Fail for Nail.

We save almost 3M in cap space a year....we get a player who has comparable stats to Cammy over the past 3 years....we get a player who is bigger and not afraid to get his nose dirty....

Cammy was not working out here. In fact, outside of the first season and playoff he has been horrible. He was hurting the team almost every time he was on the ice. He was a frightened puppy out there and anyone who didn't see that, doesn't know hockey.

The fan base always gripes about not having size and now we complain when we actually get some. The team is starting to become on par size wise with the rest of the league. Pacioretty-Cole-Moen-Kostitsyn-Bourque-Eller are all good sized guys who actually let you know they are on the ice. They are a good start to get this team physically competitive.

The only thing I can understand people complaining about is Gauthier not shopping him around a little more. But I am happy with the return, but then again I would have given that scared little kitty away for a bag of pucks.
The same logic with the Sergei kostitsyn trade and the Lats trade. SK was a 7th rd pick, be happy we're getting anything or, Pouliot was a 1st rd pick, it's a great trade, because we gave nothing for him doesn't mean you should completely squander an asset.

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01-13-2012, 11:10 AM
  #38
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Some of the guys in Hamilton are in the last year of contracts or playing for their future...Willsie Callahan Stafford Mitera Fortier Bishop Lawson masse Henry, some of those guys won't be back as guys like Gallagher Kristo Ellis Bournival Holland Beaulieu Pateryn will get regular ice time.
Out of your group of out-going, I see Mitera as staying for another 2 years. He'll likely play AHL again next year and used as a call-up and maybe make the leap full time the following year as a #6-7 stay at home d-man. I say this because he's a stay-at-home Dman who played NCAA. Not enough games to devellop as quickly as his CHL counterparts, so it takes a little longer.

But I agree that Hamilton is looking crowded. Maybe swap some prospects for a C prospect with some size and a possibility of being a #2/3 line centre someday in the NHL? Maybe? Please?

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01-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #39
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As far as Cammy's value. I think he could of garnered a 1st rd pick without a doubt. He has proven himself since his trade from LA, albeit he has struggled mightily here at times. He's still a sniper with value, bad contract and all. IMO, he had the most value of the three and when on was the biggest game changer we had.
I would rather get Rene Bourque and a 2nd than a 1st rounder.

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01-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #40
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Win-Win. Cammalleri 'lost the room' like Martin did. His motivation was clearly down. He was totally unable to check anyone or muscle his way in front of the net. He had become totally dependent on other players working the puck into the offensive zone and gift-wrapping passes to him.

He'll probably do well in Calgary alongside Iginla and a larger roster. Good luck to guy who gave us some great moments.

Like every trade, Bourque is a question mark until he plays a few games for us. Will his goal-scoring pace transfer to Montreal? Maybe. He appears to be exactly the kind of solid, 2nd or 3rd line power forward we need if he fits in as well as Cole.

The 2nd round pick rounds out the deal nicely, although exactly where in the 2nd round will depend on Calgary's fate in the standings next year.

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01-13-2012, 11:14 AM
  #41
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Cmom now, let's not act like we've been expecting Cammy to be gone for a while. Every other week there was a new thread on the trades board about moving Cammy because everyone had pointed out that he had fallen out of favor here.
I don't agree with you at all. The same guys who post that drivel in the trade forums are the same ones that post proposals everyday with every combination of players. I've seen nothing prior to the media outburst that suggested Cammy was about to be traded. Nothing. I don't know why you would pretend this was imminent. If the media outburst hadn't happened, he'd 100% still be here. This was another overly hasty reaction to a tricky situation. We think we'd learn from similar behavior from the past, but I guess not.

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01-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #42
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Good trade for both teams

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01-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #43
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I cannot believe that people are upset with this trade....YOU GOT CAMMALLERI FOR NOTHING!!!! Just because the guy put pen to paper on a huge contract does not entitle us to get the world for him in trade. Any return for the guy is a plus since it looks like we are going to Fail for Nail.

We save almost 3M in cap space a year....we get a player who has comparable stats to Cammy over the past 3 years....we get a player who is bigger and not afraid to get his nose dirty....

Cammy was not working out here. In fact, outside of the first season and playoff he has been horrible. He was hurting the team almost every time he was on the ice. He was a frightened puppy out there and anyone who didn't see that, doesn't know hockey.

The fan base always gripes about not having size and now we complain when we actually get some. The team is starting to become on par size wise with the rest of the league. Pacioretty-Cole-Moen-Kostitsyn-Bourque-Eller are all good sized guys who actually let you know they are on the ice. They are a good start to get this team physically competitive.

The only thing I can understand people complaining about is Gauthier not shopping him around a little more. But I am happy with the return, but then again I would have given that scared little kitty away for a bag of pucks.
Cammy had a limited NTC. I'm sure not all GM's know all of the players contracts around the league if they aren't trying to deal for them. What's to say PG didn't shop him around with the GMs he was allowed to deal with and simply ignored the rest because Cammy wouldn't go there? Lebrun. says one GM had no idea. I'd say all GM's but the ones for the teams allowed on the NTC didn't know he was being shopped... Besides, what's to say that the Lebrun report is absolute bull ****? As far as I know, he mentions no GMs. Heck, it could've been Burke and PG didn't want to deal him within the division.

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01-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #44
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I would rather get Rene Bourque and a 2nd than a 1st rounder.
With our current roster and overall situation, you're crazy, but I don't think a 1st rd pick alone was enough either. A prospect/late 1st was the deal to seek.

Rene Bourque, won't be your favorite player, I'll guarantee you. This team needs a mini rebuild, not acquiring mediocre players on long term contracts for our best players.

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01-13-2012, 11:17 AM
  #45
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My mistake, I wasn't really accusing you of anything. I wasn't sure and said, if so, how can you defend this. I assumed you were, because you usually defend most moves and side with posters that are similar to you.

Before the media comments, I don't know how a single poster could say they knew Cammy was to be traded. I don't buy it one bit.

As far as Cammy's value. I think he could of garnered a 1st rd pick without a doubt. He has proven himself since his trade from LA, albeit he has struggled mightily here at times. He's still a sniper with value, bad contract and all. IMO, he had the most value of the three and when on was the biggest game changer we had.

I don't criticize moving him, but I find in Montreal, more specifically with this BG/PG regime, we react way too quickly with so-called trouble makers and sell them at the inappropriate time.

This team is going nowhere. What was the hurry? I thought since they yanked him from a game it must of been a pretty good trade to be done so urgently, but then found out, we got someone elses less talented headache. That being said, I wanted to move Cammy myself, but in a direction of futures. I think we could of made a trade of the Lars Eller variety without a doubt. A young, NHL prospect from a team with a deep pool, but instead PG thinks we can still make the playoffs, lol.

The guy is out to lunch, so he makes a lateral move that he believes will help continue spinning the tires with 8th place finishes, this is not the direction this team should be going. We didn't need a player to help us now, we needed a player to help us later, there is no fixing this now. It was most certainly a lost opportunity, this reaction of not doing his due diligence and evaluating the situation properly is becoming increasingly concerning. There is no may he could of properly evaluated the market within 24hrs, zero. If you think Cammy was on the move prior to the comments in the media, I think PG has got you hook, line and sinker.
No. First of all, there isn't a team out there that would have taken on Cammalleri's salary without sending some back to Montreal. So any trade involving a first would have to be Cammalleri for 1st + salary. That salary needed to be relatively high, probably $2-4M at least. Gauthier would love a first, but he can't just accept any random salary in return. Also, asking for a first pretty much eliminates a a number of trading partners. In this age, 1st round picks are treasures. Their value might increase with the next CBA, who knows?

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01-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #46
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I don't agree with you at all. The same guys who post that drivel in the trade forums are the same ones that post proposals everyday with every combination of players. I've seen nothing prior to the media outburst that suggested Cammy was about to be traded. Nothing. I don't know why you would pretend this was imminent. If the media outburst hadn't happened, he'd 100% still be here. This was another overly hasty reaction to a tricky situation. We think we'd learn from similar behavior from the past, but I guess not.
We have, instead of trading him for Niniima, or some other troubled player of similiar worth, we got a similar player(bigger) as Cammy was playing here, a second and a prospect. The return is not at all comparable to other players who forced the GMs hand with bad attitude(Latendresse, Ribiero, Sergei,).

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01-13-2012, 11:21 AM
  #47
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With our current roster and overall situation, you're crazy, but I don't think a 1st rd pick alone was enough either. A prospect/late 1st was the deal to seek.

Rene Bourque, won't be your favorite player, I'll guarantee you. This team needs a mini rebuild, not acquiring mediocre players on long term contracts for our best players.
Name one team that would deal a late 1st (ie: top teams) and a prospect for 2 years of Cammalleri at $6M.

The team you choose must be able to absorb Cammy's salary, it must have a 1st round pick and a disposal prospect. Finally, it must have a reason to go for Cammy. I see no one that fits the bill tbh.

Also: we got a 2nd and a prospect. Drop the NHL12 mindset and stop thinkinh that Cammalleri could fetch top young talent.

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01-13-2012, 11:23 AM
  #48
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No. First of all, there isn't a team out there that would have taken on Cammalleri's salary without sending some back to Montreal. So any trade involving a first would have to be Cammalleri for 1st + salary. That salary needed to be relatively high, probably $2-4M at least. Gauthier would love a first, but he can't just accept any random salary in return. Also, asking for a first pretty much eliminates a a number of trading partners. In this age, 1st round picks are treasures. Their value might increase with the next CBA, who knows?
I don't agree with you for a number a reasons. Lesser players bring in 1st rd picks all the time. We'll never know, because we dealt him 24 hrs after the incident, but look what Dustin Penner brought Edmonton. Cammy is a way better player than Penner and everyone knows/knew it. Pretending you know for a fact he couldn't of is silly, we see this kind of behaviour nearly every deadline every year.

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01-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #49
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We have, instead of trading him for Niniima, or some other troubled player of similiar worth, we got a similar player(bigger) as Cammy was playing here, a second and a prospect. The return is not at all comparable to other players who forced the GMs hand with bad attitude(Latendresse, Ribiero, Sergei,).
Still equally garbage.

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01-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #50
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WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWO...


You guys need to give PG a break. He just realized that we needed to get bigger upfront and now you want him to realize that he has to trade one of our most valuable assets for a 1st round pick?

Give him 3 more years, at least.

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