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[MTL/CGY] Cammalleri, Rämö & 2012 5th for Bourque, Holland & 2013 2nd ‎(Part II)

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01-13-2012, 11:29 AM
  #126
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Habanero must have special powers, the guy can move goalposts by the simple lifting of a finger.

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01-13-2012, 11:29 AM
  #127
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LOOOOOOOOOOOL

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01-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #128
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Well if he is good at scoring goals, he isn't doing that either. Cammalleri from day 1 of THIS season has been useless. Sorry Habaneros but this was a good move
Well said. I would say that Cammalleri's woes go back to last year as well. Ever since Gionta was awarded the captaincy, Cammalleri has been a big baby. We all pointed this out last year. Now there are a bunch of former players talking about his attitude in Montreal and LA. It's also three sets of fans which speak about his attitude as well.

A non-producing high-priced winger with a rotten attitude is hard to get full value out of.

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01-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Habanero must have special powers, the guy can move goalposts by the simple lifting of a finger.
It is just hard for me to understand all we got for Cammy was the right to move up 3 ROUNDS in the draft!!! We give them a 5th to get back a 2nd......



That is it,,,I still can't believe it ...


Talk about movin goalposts....

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01-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Well said. I would say that Cammalleri's woes go back to last year as well. Ever since Gionta was awarded the captaincy, Cammalleri has been a big baby. We all pointed this out last year. Now there are a bunch of former players talking about his attitude in Montreal and LA. It's also three sets of fans which speak about his attitude as well.

A non-producing high-priced winger with a rotten attitude is hard to get full value out of.
agreed and the value wasn't that bad at all.

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01-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #131
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It is just hard for me to understand all we got for Cammy was the right to move up 3 ROUNDS in the draft!!!

That is it,,,I still can't believe it ...
Ummm...

Rene Bourque and Holland?

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01-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #132
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@JeanThomasJobin Jean-Thomas Jobin
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@JeanThomasJobin Jean-Thomas Jobin
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01-13-2012, 11:34 AM
  #133
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This whole mess is embarassing right now but Scott Gomez is coming back so things will go back to normal.

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #134
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Isn't that the point of tanking? If Bourque is as terrible as portrayed, the habs will continue sliding and get a high pick that will help in the long term? This is the logic I've been preached these last few months. All of a sudden it's a problem..
No. That is not the logic that rebuilders have given you.

What we've said is that you trade vets for picks and prospects. That helps to accelerate the rebuilding process. We did not do this. What we are doing here is delaying that process and slowly but surely sinking in the standings anyway. It's a band-aid on top of a band-aid. That's how we're building our team.
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They also got a second round pick, which people have complained that the team has traded too many of them because 2nd round picks get good players for the long term.
This is of little consolation. Cammy was worth more than what we got. It's been universally agreed upon by NHL analysts and this was echoed again yesterday morning BEFORE Cammy was traded.

Our asset management sucks.
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This should be a win for everyone based on what people were whining about these last few months: Size, Cap space, need for lottery pick, you asked and Gauthier delivered.
Well we got size and cap space. The former I guess is good that we are at least recognizing the need for this. Too bad it took us over 15 years to understand it. As for the cap space, it's not like any UFAs will want to come here after this fiasco.

In regards to the lottery pick, probably not. Again, its a lateral move that may improve us short term or maybe not. Adding Bourque may actually help us move up in the short term so there's no benefit from that perspective either. Mgmt is not thinking strategically, and as Gauthier said last night they are sitting there trying for 8th place... again.

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01-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #135
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01-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #136
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This whole mess is embarassing right now but Scott Gomez is coming back so things will go back to normal.
Ill still take Gomez over having Darche play pp and 12+ mins thats for sure.

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01-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No. That is not the logic that rebuilders have given you.

What we've said is that you trade vets for picks and prospects. That helps to accelerate the rebuilding process. What we are doing here is delaying that process and slowly but surely sinking in the standings anyway.


This is of little consolation. Cammy was worth more than what we got. It's been universally agreed upon by NHL analysts and this was echoed again yesterday morning BEFORE Cammy was traded.

Our asset management sucks.

Well we got size and cap space. The former I guess is good that we are at least recognizing the need for this. Too bad it took us over 15 years to understand it. As for the cap space, it's not like any UFAs will want to come here after this fiasco.

In regards to the lottery pick, probably not. Again, its a lateral move that may improve us short term or maybe not. Adding Bourque may actually help us move up in the short term so there's no benefit from that perspective either. Mgmt is not thinking strategically, and as Gauthier said last night they are sitting there trying for 8th place... again.
No he wasn't. If you were a GM you would have given more then what we got for him? Be honest. They traded a for a player that scored more then Cammy in the last 2 seasons and saved some money on the cap while Cammalleri's contract is alson going up being paid 7 million on his final 2 years

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01-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #138
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Ill still take Gomez over having Darche play pp and 12+ mins thats for sure.
Hopefully they're both playing their last season in Montreal

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01-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #139
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He really is funny!

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01-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Habanero must have special powers, the guy can move goalposts by the simple lifting of a finger.
Mental gymnastics. Bourques not mean, he's stupid!

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01-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #141
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No he wasn't.
Pretty much every analyst out there agrees with me on this. And yesterday morning after his comments a ton of them were talking about how clubs would love to add this guy. Was his salary high? Yes, but we could've worked around this.

Instead, we made a lateral move for a player who's not as good and didn't add any signficant prospects in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
If you were a GM you would have given more then what we got for him? Be honest. They traded a for a player that scored more then Cammy in the last 2 seasons and saved some money on the cap while Cammalleri's contract is alson going up being paid 7 million on his final 2 years
Absolutely I would've offered more. Depending on my cap situation I might've made Montreal take another contract going the other way to even things out on that end but if I was making a stretch run, Cammy's a great guy to add. And he'd be more effective when not surrounded by smurfs too.

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01-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #142
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haha great post Buddah !!
It was a terrible post that didn't deserve a response. There are no assertions, we've been a mediocre, fighting for 8th place team for years. If you need more evidence, perhaps you haven't been paying attention. It looks like fighting for 8th is a generous description these days, trading for lesser skilled guys on longer contracts is unlikely to yield greater success, if you disagree with that, then that is your choice.

Everyone thinks this whole thing was a panic, bush league move and I agree. PG is lost and has made panic move after panic move, it's ridiculous.

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01-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #143
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This is of little consolation. Cammy was worth more than what we got. It's been universally agreed upon by NHL analysts and this was echoed again yesterday morning BEFORE Cammy was traded.

Our asset management sucks.
Once again. Cammy was traded for a late 1st round pick after a tremendous year by LA without a 6 million dollar contract.

What makes you think that he should get you more than Bourque, a 2nd, and a prospect NOW?

Because some "experts on TV told you so?"

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01-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
It was a terrible post that didn't deserve a response. There are no assertions, we've been a mediocre, fighting for 8th place team for years. If you need more evidence, perhaps you haven't been paying attention. It looks fighting for 8th is a generous description these days, trading for lesser skilled guys on longer contracts is unlikely to yield greater success, if you disagree with that, then that is your choice.

Everyone thinks this whole thing was a panic, bush league move and I agree. PG is lost and has made panic move after panic move, it's ridiculous.
The assertion was the later part of that post.

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01-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No. That is not the logic that rebuilders have given you.

What we've said is that you trade vets for picks and prospects. That helps to accelerate the rebuilding process. We did not do this. What we are doing here is delaying that process and slowly but surely sinking in the standings anyway. It's a band-aid on top of a band-aid. That's how we're building our team.
The last time I checked, a 2nd round pick is a pick and Patrick Holland is a prospect.

Second to think no salary would be coming back is just stupid.

It's a band-aid, but like you said, if Bourque is worse, won't we continue to lose and get the high pick like you want?

Quote:
This is of little consolation. Cammy was worth more than what we got. It's been universally agreed upon by NHL analysts and this was echoed again yesterday morning BEFORE Cammy was traded.

Our asset management sucks.
A producing Cammalleri without the reputation of a rotten attitude(which former players are now coming out and talking about it) is worth a lot more. Cammalleri hasn't shown much these last two years and has acted like a little ***** since Gionta was awarded the C.

FFS the first time Cammalleri was traded he was coming off a pretty good year and didn't have as big a contract and only got a late first. What the hell did you expect for Cammy? RNH? You expect to get more, when he's played worse and is not playing up to his contract in which the salary exceeds the cap hit for the next couple of years?

Quote:
Well we got size and cap space. The former I guess is good that we are at least recognizing the need for this. Too bad it took us over 15 years to understand it. As for the cap space, it's not like any UFAs will want to come here after this fiasco.
Maybe not, but capspace isn't only essential for UFAs, it is also required to keep your improving young players (pacioretty, Eller, Subban and Price) and you can agree taht keeping these players is essential for success. Funny how people have overlooked this aspect of the capspace argument when it was the very thing they have been arguing about for weeks since the Kaberle trade. Gauthier made the cap space you guys were mad we didn't have.

Quote:
In regards to the lottery pick, probably not. Again, its a lateral move that may improve us short term or maybe not. Adding Bourque may actually help us move up in the short term so there's no benefit from that perspective either. Mgmt is not thinking strategically, and as Gauthier said last night they are sitting there trying for 8th place... again.
If it's a lateral move then we shouldn't expect the team to win more than it has, so effectively, we're heading for a lottery pick while acquiring a 2nd a prospect and a player who will produce at the rate Cammalleri has for half the value allowing us to retain the young players which everyone cried weren't going to be able to be retained because they traded for Kaberle. Horrible ****ing deal.

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01-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #146
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The assertion was the later part of that post.
Must be why you responded with assertion 12 times, eh?

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01-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #147
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Pretty much every analyst out there agrees with me on this. And yesterday morning after his comments a ton of them were talking about how clubs would love to add this guy. Was his salary high? Yes, but we could've worked around this.

Instead, we made a lateral move for a player who's not as good and didn't add any signficant prospects in the process.


Absolutely I would've offered more. Depending on my cap situation I might've made Montreal take another contract going the other way to even things out on that end but if I was making a stretch run, Cammy's a great guy to add. And he'd be more effective when not surrounded by smurfs too.
But what if Gauthier and the Habs wanted to lower their cap hit and also receive a pick which they got. We never will find out but I honesty don't think we would have gotten much from anyone else

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01-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #148
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Ummm...

Rene Bourque and Holland?
as i said all we got was the right to move up 3 spots...that is all we got for Cammy ...


PLUS McKenzie makes mention Ramo could be Flames number 1 in coming years,
which i won't be surprised as he had a relationship with Feaster in Tampa

Ramo has good gga in KHL 1.97 two yr in a row...927 sv %,just another free give away ..

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01-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #149
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Must be why you responded with assertion 12 times, eh?
*quote*

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01-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #150
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as i said all we got was the right to move up 3 spots...that is it ...
Logic...failure. Does. Not. Make. Sense.

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