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01-08-2013, 09:06 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I get the feeling Kovy is the one most inclined to stay in Russia and then they drag Pavel, Malkin and who else into it to make it sound more threatening. Ovechkin was supposedly in that group of Russian players aswell and he was one of the first players to jump on a plane back.. So much for that.
I think they are going to have a harder time doing this than they think. Their contracts are covered by the wording of the previous CBA and carry over into the new one. Try as they might they will invite problems and if they really do this as much as it would upset someone I hope no NHL players play in the Olympics in Russia in response. They might enjoy their fraud Gold medal but they had a chance to do it with the full acknowlegement that they were the best that will go away.

I have thought for a while Datsyuk and Malkin will be targeted with big money offers that will be hard to say no to. But Ovie and Kovy have signed themselves away by their own doing, their threats about their contracts not being honored have been answered, they will get hammered legally for attempting this. And all the players that leave before their contract will not play in IIHF events and should have their cards pulled. I know the KHL doesn't want to believe that but pressure will be brought to bear, in a big way. The NHL can use their relationship with the CHL to essentially cripple the WJC, they can create a rival tournament to the WC. All of these are things I would expect if the IIHF shockingly sided with Russia. So on the surface not as great as some think when they say the IIHF is closer to Russia that is true. But the KHL probably cannot break away in a similarly damaging way.

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01-08-2013, 09:09 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
UPDATE:



Not good... Lets hope Pavs stays committed to Detroit.

I know he loves it there but ripping off your team that has done so much for you would be pretty classless. That being said, he could quite possibly come to Detroit this season.

I don't know how my perception of him would change if he stays.
Get over it. I love Datsyuk. But if he stays in Russia, good for him.

Ilitch voted to lock him out, so he got a new job. Jimmy D said he was cattle.

Any "Fan" who thinks less of Datsyuk because he decides not to abandon hockey fans in Moscow.... well, they're not really a fan at all, IMO.

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01-08-2013, 09:16 PM
  #403
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Datsyuk wasn't in the CSKA lineup after the agreement and has maintained during this process he is coming back. He can return to Russia in a year and a half and my guess is that is what he does. Why risk the Olympics or other things if you're Pavel?

I don't think he is at the top of the list. Kovalchuk is a good candidate for this if he is started to regret signing that contract. Datsyuk is close to the finish line, I don't think he would be the first to do it.

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01-08-2013, 09:18 PM
  #404
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Get over it. I love Datsyuk. But if he stays in Russia, good for him.

Ilitch voted to lock him out, so he got a new job. Jimmy D said he was cattle.

Any "Fan" who thinks less of Datsyuk because he decides not to abandon hockey fans in Moscow.... well, they're not really a fan at all, IMO.
I don't blame him for doing so since he loves Russia so much, but at the same time he still has an obligation to the Wings.

That being said, I think he comes back to Detroit. It's just a little nerve-racking.

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01-08-2013, 09:23 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I don't blame him for doing so since he loves Russia so much, but at the same time he still has an obligation to the Wings.

That being said, I think he comes back to Detroit. It's just a little nerve-racking.
it's his decision if he has an obligation to the Wings.

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01-08-2013, 09:30 PM
  #406
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it's his decision if he has an obligation to the Wings.
Technically, if what's being reported is actually true, you're right. It then is just a morale obligation to the Wings.

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01-08-2013, 09:38 PM
  #407
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Technically, if what's being reported is actually true, you're right. It then is just a morale obligation to the Wings.
The courts decide the legal obligation.

IMO, morally, he owes nothing to Mike Ilitch.

If I was a player, I'd feel really crappy about quitting my team mid-season to play for a league that was threatening to cancel my season for the second time in eight years.

I'd stay in Russia until the season was done. And then I'd join the team for the playoffs, if they wanted me, or for next September, if they wanted me.

Morally, I think that's the right way to do it.

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01-08-2013, 10:53 PM
  #408
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I don't blame him for wanting to finish the season in Russia if that's the case.

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01-08-2013, 11:01 PM
  #409
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I wonder how much money would come back in the breach of contract suits that come out of this for these guys as well. As we found out with both Barry Sanders and Charles Rogers that is no laughing matter and they get back significant portions even of already paid money.

Bill Daly is talking pretty tough on this and keeps saying the KHL has agreed to honor agreements and they will be pursued if they don't.

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01-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I wonder how much money would come back in the breach of contract suits that come out of this for these guys as well. As we found out with both Barry Sanders and Charles Rogers that is no laughing matter and they get back significant portions even of already paid money.

Bill Daly is talking pretty tough on this and keeps saying the KHL has agreed to honor agreements.

How do you figure?

The NHL can suspend a player that's doesn't show up, and he doesn't get paid for being AWOL. Good luck getting a Russian court to force guys to give money back they already earned for the time they DID play.


And for the record, Daly can talk all he wants, but he has no legal standing in Russia nor with the KHL.

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01-08-2013, 11:09 PM
  #411
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How do you figure?

The NHL can suspend a player that's doesn't show up, and he doesn't get paid for being AWOL. Good luck getting a Russian court to force guys to give money back they already earned for the time they DID play.


And for the record, Daly can talk all he wants, but he has no legal standing in Russia nor with the KHL.
They have other things though if this gets real ugly. Do you think Kovy lives in a shack in Jersey? Do you think he doesn't have cars or a home, assets in that home? Bank accounts stateside. All of that is frozen if they pursue the legal avenues, you do know that right?

That is how a lot of damages are settled, it would fascinating as the Devils would pretty much admit in open court they had a cheat deal on the cap. He a lot of upfront money and bonuses and is now bolting. Be fun too watch what they want back, but like I said the Lions did get portions of Sanders bonus back so this isn't totally without previous documentation in US courts.

Daly does have a legal standing with the IIHF. They should not honor this if it goes down and pull his card along with huge suspensions for both the player and team.

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01-08-2013, 11:44 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I wonder how much money would come back in the breach of contract suits that come out of this for these guys as well. As we found out with both Barry Sanders and Charles Rogers that is no laughing matter and they get back significant portions even of already paid money.

Bill Daly is talking pretty tough on this and keeps saying the KHL has agreed to honor agreements and they will be pursued if they don't.
The NHL brass is still in full ********* mode.

If I was a Russian hockey star, I'd stay in Russia just on principle. But I'm like that

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01-08-2013, 11:48 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
They have other things though if this gets real ugly. Do you think Kovy lives in a shack in Jersey? Do you think he doesn't have cars or a home, assets in that home? Bank accounts stateside. All of that is frozen if they pursue the legal avenues, you do know that right?

That is how a lot of damages are settled, it would fascinating as the Devils would pretty much admit in open court they had a cheat deal on the cap. He a lot of upfront money and bonuses and is now bolting. Be fun too watch what they want back, but like I said the Lions did get portions of Sanders bonus back so this isn't totally without previous documentation in US courts.

Daly does have a legal standing with the IIHF. They should not honor this if it goes down and pull his card along with huge suspensions for both the player and team.

Kovy could file his retirement papers. He has fulfilled his duties up to that point, and furthermore, nothing in his contract says he can't retire before the term ends.

Unless those bonuses are somehow linked to "must do ____ for X period of time, or it must be returned" they can't get the money paid out back.

IIHF is an organization, not a court of law. They're screwed either way because the next Olympics is in Russia, and the IOC would like to see NHL participation.


By the way, I "know" how damages are settled, but that doesn't mean that what you're suggesting is based on a legal analysis. There are countries where clauses that restrict someone from future employment or participation after they part ways with one entity are invalid. You can't prevent an NHL player from retiring, and then choosing to do something related to hockey at whatever level they choose. Obviously, the only place they definitely cannot participate is the NHL.

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01-09-2013, 12:22 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
The NHL brass is still in full ********* mode.

If I was a Russian hockey star, I'd stay in Russia just on principle. But I'm like that
If you were an NHL player you would also still be voting no on the current offer. Thankfully you're pretty extreme and I doubt many will follow what you think when things like not participating in a home Olympics and WC plus having your team fined and lose any wins with you in the lineup is all on the table. We will see how many of those we see take place, but they have an obligation at the IIHF to enforce these.

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01-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
By the way, I "know" how damages are settled, but that doesn't mean that what you're suggesting is based on a legal analysis. There are countries where clauses that restrict someone from future employment or participation after they part ways with one entity are invalid. You can't prevent an NHL player from retiring, and then choosing to do something related to hockey at whatever level they choose. Obviously, the only place they definitely cannot participate is the NHL.
I am just saying they will press to get those assets tied up in any legal preceeding and there is a good chance that will be granted during the build up to appearance in court. How it turns out I don't know, but we have seen athletes give something back and I could see that happening once the case is argued. We will find out then.

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01-09-2013, 12:59 AM
  #416
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I am just saying they will press to get those assets tied up in any legal preceeding and there is a good chance that will be granted during the build up to appearance in court. How it turns out I don't know, but we have seen athletes give something back and I could see that happening once the case is argued. We will find out then.

How can you assign a probability?

The league can't prevent anyone from retiring. That is a legal option available to any player. What right they've stipulated in the legal language in any NHL SPC is that any member club can pursue the matter further IF the player chooses to play elsewhere within that first year. Furthermore, to get some kind of freezing of assets or money refunded, the team/NHL would need to prove damages. Courts don't just seize someone's assets because another party files a suit.

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01-09-2013, 01:28 AM
  #417
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How can you assign a probability?

The league can't prevent anyone from retiring. That is a legal option available to any player. What right they've stipulated in the legal language in any NHL SPC is that any member club can pursue the matter further IF the player chooses to play elsewhere within that first year. Furthermore, to get some kind of freezing of assets or money refunded, the team/NHL would need to prove damages. Courts don't just seize someone's assets because another party files a suit.
So why did Barry Sanders lose bonus money and have to pay back some salary?

Like I said the interesting part is in court they would have to state they knowingly found a way around the CBA. That he and his agent understood that and his pay was altered to reflect that. Now most of us believe that, but it would be funny to watch them admit it. So you could argue damages.

There is a one year period for not allowing him to play even while retired without Devils consent. They file that in Febuary that puts him out through the next Olympics. If the IIHF even allows it.

By the way Datsyuk's agent confirmed he is heading back to Detroit and will honor his contract.

Per Ansar Khan:

Quote:
“He'll be on time,'' Greenstin told MLive.com on Tuesday. “Pavel is ready to play. In a few days, he'll be in Detroit. I talked to Ken (Red Wings general manager Holland) yesterday, everything is under control. Pavel is an honest player, honest person. He has an obligation to Detroit.

“Of course, (CSKA Moscow) wants him to stay, but my clients always oblige their contracts. The standard player contract says when the lockout is over they have to return.''
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....l#incart_river

Also of note he said he would advise Pavel Datsyuk to sign another contract with the Wings for those of us wondering on that.

Quote:
Datsyuk's contract expires after next season, leading to much speculation about whether he will remain with the Red Wings or finish his career in Russia. Greenstin said it's too soon to know what Datsyuk will do. The agent has spoken to Holland about it.



“We go step by step,'' Greenstin said. “My suggestion is he stay in Detroit. Pavel's not a traitor. Right now, they build the team around Pavel and (Henrik) Zetterberg.

“If he stays in North America, he will stay in Detroit. (But), it's too early to talk about things.''

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01-09-2013, 02:50 AM
  #418
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If you were an NHL player you would also still be voting no on the current offer. Thankfully you're pretty extreme and I doubt many will follow what you think when things like not participating in a home Olympics and WC plus having your team fined and lose any wins with you in the lineup is all on the table. We will see how many of those we see take place, but they have an obligation at the IIHF to enforce these.
I wouldn't be voting no on the current offer. If Don Fehr recommends an offer and 90 percent of my co-workers are going to ratify it, what's the point of a No Vote?

I'm not extreme at all.

The NHL owners, who already stole a year of Datsyuk's career, locked their doors again and demanded major concessions and threatened to cancel the whole season.

So Pavel does the right thing and goes to play in the best remaining league in the world. No deal in October. No deal in November. No deal in December.

If he wanted to stay in Moscow to finish the season, I'd have no problem with it.

If the Red Wings wanted to sue him for it, fine. They'd never see Datsyuk again.

Now, personally, I don't think that's the kind of franchise Detroit is. The Red Wings franchise has more class than most of the control freaks who troll the internet.

In the end, I think Datsyuk is returning to Detroit. It looks like he's getting to stay for the all-star game. So that's cool.

When the NHL has to resort to threats to keep its stars... you realize just how far Gary Bettman has sunk this league.

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01-09-2013, 02:52 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
So why did Barry Sanders lose bonus money and have to pay back some salary?

Like I said the interesting part is in court they would have to state they knowingly found a way around the CBA. That he and his agent understood that and his pay was altered to reflect that. Now most of us believe that, but it would be funny to watch them admit it. So you could argue damages.

There is a one year period for not allowing him to play even while retired without Devils consent. They file that in Febuary that puts him out through the next Olympics. If the IIHF even allows it.

By the way Datsyuk's agent confirmed he is heading back to Detroit and will honor his contract.

Per Ansar Khan:



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....l#incart_river

Also of note he said he would advise Pavel Datsyuk to sign another contract with the Wings for those of us wondering on that.
Careful about trusting Gary Greenstin.

Anyone who remembers how Greenstin had a deal with 2 Russian Teams and the Red Wings knows that Greenstin talks about both sides of his mouth plus his ass, all at the same time.

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01-09-2013, 03:01 AM
  #420
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I don't think the Wings would sue Datsyuk nor do I think they should if he made that decision. The Kovalchuk situation is much different though considering what he is trying to duck out on and the penalties they have suffered just to get him. Different scenario CB.

A year and a half on a guy that already brought you a cup and you know his family doesn't come with him to North America is slightly different. Now had he just signed a seven year extension on top of that to play until he was 43 this would get interesting. I still wouldn't like pursuit legally although I would understand it. The difference being I think the Wings can get other players, not as good, but are not in the dire situation that Jersey would find themselves in.

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01-09-2013, 03:25 AM
  #421
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A year and a half on a guy that already brought you a cup and you know his family doesn't come with him to North America is slightly different.
Datsyuk just needs a new Michigan wife. That's how we keep him in here. He is divorced.... but new woman always changes man's mind.

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01-09-2013, 03:31 AM
  #422
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Datsyuk just needs a new Michigan wife. That's how we keep him in here. He is divorced.... but new woman always changes man's mind.
When did he get divorced, have heard this before but never have found it or seen it linked. Either way his daughter is in Russia and he is a very proud papa and have seen her and him when he plays at home or for the Russian National team. So family is still a part of that in my opinion.

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01-09-2013, 04:06 AM
  #423
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When did he get divorced, have heard this before but never have found it or seen it linked. Either way his daughter is in Russia and he is a very proud papa and have seen her and him when he plays at home or for the Russian National team. So family is still a part of that in my opinion.
Outside of these boards I also have not heard anything about him being divorced. As far I know his daughter is in Russia and they moved there when she went to school. So obviously his wife is also in Russia, but divorced...? Possibly, but not sure. And he has always talked about seeing his family, or them coming to Stockholm or Moscow to see him play.

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01-09-2013, 04:16 AM
  #424
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It's gotta be tough being in a foreign land away from your family. I can't even imagine. Obviously he's making millions playing the sport that he loves, but family is family.

You can just tell how proud of his daughter he is:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JC-Nr76Nxxc
Has to be tough being away so much.

With that being said, I selfishly cannot wait to see him on the ice in America again. What a joy. Thank you Hakan.

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01-09-2013, 04:23 AM
  #425
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When did he get divorced, have heard this before but never have found it or seen it linked. Either way his daughter is in Russia and he is a very proud papa and have seen her and him when he plays at home or for the Russian National team. So family is still a part of that in my opinion.
What I have learned, they (wife and daughter) live in Datsyuk's and his wife's old home city Yekaterinburg and Datsyuk plays at Moscow. Doesn't look like a true family together.

I remember first time I saw some discussion about the divorce something like two seasons ago, and wife+daughter have been living at Russia since that. Don't have a secure link for it.

Divorce or not, the biggest thing is that for sure he misses his daughter.

This is just a perfect example how good Pavel keeps his family things completely private. We don't really know a thing.

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