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Possible 2012-13 lineup/Cap situation

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #1
habs03
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Possible 2012-13 lineup/Cap situation

I might be in the minority but I don't think the team is as bad as it has been this season. PG mentioned something like due to injuries, we have only played 6 games were we were over the salary cap floor. And I noticed a lot of ppl don't like certain players because of their cap hit, example Kaberle. But I'm just playing around with some numbers, I think we can resign our key young players and add a few good pieces by simply sending Gomez to Europe.

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but I think the below line can be a really good team, and we would have around 3.9M in cap space to add a really good 4th line, and that's if the cap doesn't go up. I just see a really good top 9, no real number 1, but 3 good 2nd lines, and the same for the D, no true 1st pairing, but 3 good "2nd pairings"

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Tuomo Ruutu ($4.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.000m)

XXX: Tuomo Ruutu/Stoll/ guys that can play Wing and Centre in case you don't want to use DD at centre.

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.500m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.000m)

XXX: Stay at home tough D-men, ex Tim Gleason or Bryan Allen

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.500m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)


CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,358,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (18-man roster): $3,941,667

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01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
  #2
Richiebottles
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That is a good team IMO. I like that lineup. A lot.

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:07 PM
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Yeah, with Cammy gone it opens things up to allow us to resign AK and maybe go for a forward like Ruutu.

I'm not too worried about our D next year because there appears to be a solid free agent class. Hopefully, we get someone who can help us.

Gomez is still an issue, but with a new CBA coming there may be another buy-out period that doesn't affect the cap. That is our best option concerning him.

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01-13-2012, 02:10 PM
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And there is still a ton of cap room, with that linep, and I was being realist with A.Kost at 4, Ruutu at 4.5,Allen at 3.5. We could still have 3.9M plus wtv the cap goes up by next season.

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01-13-2012, 02:15 PM
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Forget this and re-build!!!

Trade Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Moen, Gomez, Darche, Nokelainen, Gill, Weber, Campoli and Kaberle

Build around:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Gionta
XXXXX - Leblanc - XXXXX
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
XXXXX - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Try to land another two 1st round draft picks and draft the biggest two centres including Galchenyuk and a solid defenseman like Rielly or Dumba as well.

Cultivate:

Beaulieu, Tinordi, Kristo, Gallagher, Holland, Galchenyuk etc.

Win the cup by 2017!!!

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:31 PM
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I personally wouldnt mind Mtl to go after maybe D. Penner over T. Ruutu or maybe let L. Leblanc play.. Then sign Konopka as a 4th line centre

Penner/Bourque - Pleks - Gionta
Pax - DD - Cole
Bourque/Leblanc - Eller - Kostitsyn
White - Konopka - Darche/Blunden

Markov Emelin
Gorges Subban
Karberle Diaz

Price
Budaj

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Old
01-13-2012, 02:33 PM
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Tuomo Ruutu has been one of my favorite players in the league for years now. I would do a back flip if we were to sign or trade for him.

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Old
01-13-2012, 03:28 PM
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if we get ruutu i will act like when we signed cole

jump for joy

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Old
01-13-2012, 03:31 PM
  #9
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Ruutu will probably go to a contender as a pending UFA and sign with them, but yea he'd be a good fit.

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01-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Forget this and re-build!!!

Trade Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Moen, Gomez, Darche, Nokelainen, Gill, Weber, Campoli and Kaberle

Build around:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Gionta
XXXXX - Leblanc - XXXXX
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
XXXXX - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Try to land another two 1st round draft picks and draft the biggest two centres including Galchenyuk and a solid defenseman like Rielly or Dumba as well.

Cultivate:

Beaulieu, Tinordi, Kristo, Gallagher, Holland, Galchenyuk etc.

Win the cup by 2017!!!
How do you plan to get your other two first round pick? Galchenyuk + Rielly/Dumba means two top 12 pick... yeah good luck.

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Old
01-13-2012, 03:39 PM
  #11
Bleu Blanc Rouge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Forget this and re-build!!!

Trade Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Moen, Gomez, Darche, Nokelainen, Gill, Weber, Campoli and Kaberle

Build around:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Gionta
XXXXX - Leblanc - XXXXX
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
XXXXX - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Try to land another two 1st round draft picks and draft the biggest two centres including Galchenyuk and a solid defenseman like Rielly or Dumba as well.

Cultivate:

Beaulieu, Tinordi, Kristo, Gallagher, Holland, Galchenyuk etc.

Win the cup by 2017!!!
I think the majorirty wants to keep kostitsyn, and what's the problem with some people wanting to move dd ? he's our best playmaker. YES our best playmaker. And you forgot that we just traded for Rene Bourque.

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Old
01-13-2012, 03:41 PM
  #12
ProMath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Forget this and re-build!!!

Trade Kostitsyn, Desharnais, Moen, Gomez, Darche, Nokelainen, Gill, Weber, Campoli and Kaberle

Build around:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Gionta
XXXXX - Leblanc - XXXXX
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
XXXXX - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Try to land another two 1st round draft picks and draft the biggest two centres including Galchenyuk and a solid defenseman like Rielly or Dumba as well.

How exactly to you expect to land 1st round draft picks in one of the best draft in the past 5 years with those guys ?

AK46 is the only player that hold a certains value.
I dont see any playoff team trading for Desharnais. Non-PLayoff team won't trade a 1st for him.

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Old
01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
  #13
knuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Tuomo Ruutu has been one of my favorite players in the league for years now. I would do a back flip if we were to sign or trade for him.

Holy crap, 309 hits last year !?!

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:04 PM
  #14
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.250m) / Lars Eller ($2.100m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m)
Ryan White ($0.800m) / Petteri Nokelainen ($0.650m) / Louis Leblanc ($1.170m)
Andreas Engqvist ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Yemelin ($1.750m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / PK Subban ($3.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.600m)
Frederic St. Denis ($0.705m)

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($5.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,865,476; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,434,524

Call me crazy but I really like that team. It presumes Markov comes back and is healthy and Kaberle is traded, Kaberle can be slotted in if Markov is done.

If Gomez can be bought out for free they'll surely do so, and then I would probably pee my pants with joy if the Habs put in a 7 year 52.5 millon dollar contract for Parise and he took it.

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01-13-2012, 04:11 PM
  #15
habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.250m) / Lars Eller ($2.100m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m)
Ryan White ($0.800m) / Petteri Nokelainen ($0.650m) / Louis Leblanc ($1.170m)
Andreas Engqvist ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Yemelin ($1.750m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / PK Subban ($3.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.600m)
Frederic St. Denis ($0.705m)

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($5.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,865,476; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,434,524

Call me crazy but I really like that team. It presumes Markov comes back and is healthy and Kaberle is traded, Kaberle can be slotted in if Markov is done.

If Gomez can be bought out for free they'll surely do so, and then I would probably pee my pants with joy if the Habs put in a 7 year 52.5 millon dollar contract for Parise and he took it.
Sorry but I find that horrible. Too many guys playing out of position, Weber at LD, Cole plays RW, Gomez on wing.

I think

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Tuomo Ruutu ($4.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.000m)

XXX: Tuomo Ruutu/Stoll/ guys that can play Wing and Centre in case you don't want to use DD at centre.

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.500m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.000m)

And 3.9M plus whatever the cap goes up for a really good 4th line. I mean thats enough money to be able to sign Paul Gaustad 2.75M contact to play the 4th line.

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:14 PM
  #16
Aurel Joliat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Erik Cole ($4.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Max Pacioretty ($1.625m)
Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.250m) / Lars Eller ($2.100m) / Scott Gomez ($7.357m)
Ryan White ($0.800m) / Petteri Nokelainen ($0.650m) / Louis Leblanc ($1.170m)
Andreas Engqvist ($0.575m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Yemelin ($1.750m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / PK Subban ($3.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.850m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.600m)
Frederic St. Denis ($0.705m)

GOALTENDERS
Peter Budaj ($1.150m) / Carey Price ($5.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,865,476; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,434,524

Call me crazy but I really like that team. It presumes Markov comes back and is healthy and Kaberle is traded, Kaberle can be slotted in if Markov is done.

If Gomez can be bought out for free they'll surely do so, and then I would probably pee my pants with joy if the Habs put in a 7 year 52.5 millon dollar contract for Parise and he took it.
This line-up is not an improvement... Forget the playoffs next year too
No way that Engqvist and St-Denis have their place in the NHL.

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:15 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Sorry but I find that horrible. Too many guys playing out of position, Weber at LD, Cole plays RW, Gomez on wing.

I think

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Tuomo Ruutu ($4.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.000m)

XXX: Tuomo Ruutu/Stoll/ guys that can play Wing and Centre in case you don't want to use DD at centre.

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.500m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.000m)

And 3.9M plus whatever the cap goes up for a really good 4th line. I mean thats enough money to be able to sign Paul Gaustad 2.75M contact to play the 4th line.
Dude I saw your proposal, it was the first post in this thread. I'm not that concerned about the sides each guy is on. I was going to put Diaz/Weber because I think one of them will be dealt and maybe bring in a grinder bottom pairing guy...but not Allen for 3.5. That's horrid cap management.

I put Gomez on the wing because Eller is significantly better at center than on the wing and Desharnais has done nothing to prove he isn't worthy of playing center in the NHL.

I don't think Gomez will be back anyways, but just showing the potential for a solid line up with him in there.

Gaustad at 2.75 to play the 4th line? Why???

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
This line-up is not an improvement... Forget the playoffs next year too
No way that Engqvist and St-Denis have their place in the NHL.
They are the 7th d-man and 13th forward respectively Aurel, I put them in as fillers. I really like that teams chances at the playoffs actually.

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
Dude I saw your proposal, it was the first post in this thread. I'm not that concerned about the sides each guy is on. I was going to put Diaz/Weber because I think one of them will be dealt and maybe bring in a grinder bottom pairing guy...but not Allen for 3.5. That's horrid cap management.

I put Gomez on the wing because Eller is significantly better at center than on the wing and Desharnais has done nothing to prove he isn't worthy of playing center in the NHL.

I don't think Gomez will be back anyways, but just showing the potential for a solid line up with him in there.

Gaustad at 2.75 to play the 4th line? Why???
Being on a roughly 50pt pace means he can't be a center in the NHL?

Don't get me wrong I'm not huge on DD but even I've come around a bit. He does a lot of good things out there despite being small.

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I might be in the minority but I don't think the team is as bad as it has been this season. PG mentioned something like due to injuries, we have only played 6 games were we were over the salary cap floor. And I noticed a lot of ppl don't like certain players because of their cap hit, example Kaberle. But I'm just playing around with some numbers, I think we can resign our key young players and add a few good pieces by simply sending Gomez to Europe.

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but I think the below line can be a really good team, and we would have around 3.9M in cap space to add a really good 4th line, and that's if the cap doesn't go up. I just see a really good top 9, no real number 1, but 3 good 2nd lines, and the same for the D, no true 1st pairing, but 3 good "2nd pairings"

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($1.625m) / David Desharnais ($0.850m) / Erik Cole ($4.500m)
Tuomo Ruutu ($4.500m) / Lars Eller ($1.500m) / Andrei Kostitsyn ($4.000m)

XXX: Tuomo Ruutu/Stoll/ guys that can play Wing and Centre in case you don't want to use DD at centre.

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.500m)
Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.500m)
Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.000m)

XXX: Stay at home tough D-men, ex Tim Gleason or Bryan Allen

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.500m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)


CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,358,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (18-man roster): $3,941,667
if we are starting over,,,take out markov and gionta,,,11 million more to spend and the rebuild is over,,, contending team in a couple of days

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Old
01-13-2012, 04:42 PM
  #21
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Just tank solid this season to grab an elite foward and we wont have to rebuild, just retool..

Off season moves:

Hire Patty Roy as the new coach..

Trade Desharnais and Weber to Nashville for Radulov's right..

Bourque Grigorenko Radulov

Gionta Plekanec Cole

Leblanc Eller Patches

Real fourth line material.. Sign some of Shawn Thorton Brandon Prust Aaron Asham Zenon Konopka.. All UFAs at the end of the year..

On D, sign Ryan Suter.. Get rid of Kaberle..

Suter Subban

Markov Emelin

Diaz Gorges

Price


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 01-13-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old
01-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #22
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I think we should experiment a little, do some radical outside the box thinking. What about we create an arbitrary rule just for the hell of it, sign only players 6'4'' and 240 pounds minimum. Real grizzly boys, mean, bloodsuckers, go into every arena in the league and make other teams fear for their lives. Winning games would be incidental. It would be more like a revenge tour for what's happened in the last five years. I'm pretty sure our fans could get behind that. We'd probably lose every game for 3-4 years, rack up number one overall picks and store them in the AHL. Once we've pretty much destroyed every other NHL team, broken their bones, taken their wives, changed the face of the NHL, bang, we bring up our picks, and dominate for ten years. I would even suggest changing jersey during those dark years like a superhero whose gone evil. Nobody would ever talk bad about us again. To me, that's a compelling story line, something that could definitely be pitched as a remedy to our malaise.

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:09 PM
  #23
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I think one thing we've learned as fans is the need to not put players in a position where they can't succeed. This city will eat them alive. I think that's one reason why Kostitsyn has worked so well on the third line. With that said, I can see Bourque - Eller - Kostitsyn as a dynamite third line. And on some nights, it may even be our first or second line depending on their play and the minutes Cunneyworth gives them.

Who are the other forwards?

xx - Desharnais - Cole
Pacioretty - Grigorenko - Gionta
Bourque - Eller - Kostitsyn
xx - White - Blunden

I don't have Plekanec there because we either have to deal him or Desharnais, and the latter won't fetch us anything. Plus, after the trade of Cammalleri, I see this as an end to the season with us ending up in the lottery where we better draft a center. Not to mention that any deals Gauthier makes is just going to make things worse so maybe that's a blessing in disguise.

Draft Grigorenko and package Plekanec with one of Tinordi / Beaulieu / Subban for a game-breaking winger with size. Look at Ryan or Perry. Do what it takes to land them. As long as we have our first this year and two left out of Tinordi / Beaulieu / Subban in the system, it's worth it. Cole can shift to the left side if necessary. If we can land Getzlaf, draft that Forsberg kid.

Now the only reason I have Desharnais as our #1 center is to insulate Grigorenko and not give him the pressure of being the #1 guy. I see Eller emerging at some point of the season as the #1 center next season, depending on who we draft / deal for.

What about our D?

We have enough assets here to make it work. With the emergence of Emelin, I believe we're really only a stabilizing D man with size away from being stable on the back-end. I've been saying it a lot, but we need the second coming of Pronger. Not just because he's a pain in the ass to play against, but he'll sort out the locker room and demand respect. People know that he'll knock someone's teeth out if need be and that's the attitude that it takes to win in the playoffs. Emelin needs some help.

It's pretty obvious what the lines are:
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - xx
Diaz, Weber

Who's available:
Gomez (likely using a cap exemption in the summer as part of the new CBA)
Gionta (nobody will take him at his age, size and salary)
Moen (though I'd like to keep him)
Plekanec (need more size at center)
Desharnais (we won't get fair value for him)
Kaberle (will be lucky to get rid by the deadline)
Weber or Diaz (we'll have to deal one to get bigger with Kaberle likely not being movable unfortunately)

This season of turmoil will hopefully be the end of it. Hopefully Molson puts in a management team that will rival the class of the Detroit organization, something we haven't seen here since Serge Savard. It's time we do what's right and set things right from the top down. Enough is enough. Right now our management team looks like a bunch of kids who don't know how to handle the current situation. Public apologies for hiring coaches, trading for bad contracts, firing coaches on game days, trading players during the game, etc. It's all too much. We've become a laughing stock and we need to bring back the class of the Montreal Canadiens. If Molson can't monetarily or won't, he's the wrong owner for us. That's what we need.

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:14 PM
  #24
WeThreeKings
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I'm not going to make a new line-up. All I am going to do is make a skeleton line-up which shows the problem areas.

XXXX-XXXX-XXXX
Pacioretty-Plekanec-Cole
XXXX-Eller-Kostitsyn
White-XXXX-XXXX

Emelin-Markov
Subban-Gorges
XXXX-XXXX

Price
XXXX

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:18 PM
  #25
Shabutie
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Gauthier admitted that this team was too small....so I'd assume that he'd look at moving one or a few of Gio, Desharnais, Gomez or Plekanec. If we can move any of those for a big number 1/2 center (while including a pick + prospect), I think we'd have a fairly decent team. Example;

Bourque - Getzlaf - Gio
Patches - Gomez - Desharnais/Cole
Andrei - Eller - Cole/DD
White - Nokeleinan - UFA

That's very good winger depth imo.

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