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Panthers president Yormak interview with Forbes

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Old
01-15-2012, 01:36 PM
  #51
blues10
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
They might sell some tickets, but they are selling them at redicously low price compare to true hockey market. I heard of promos in florida that if you did groceries in some supermarket you got 2 free tickets for a Panthers game... How many of those sellouts you tell me about were free tickets or really low price tickets
You mean ticket prices like these.

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Full Season Ticket Plan
(44 Games)

As low as $363.00 or $8.25 a game per seat
Lower Bowl Seats as low as $36.25 a game per seat (RED Zone)
http://panthers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=37501

http://2.cdn.nhle.com/panthers/v2/ex...Full1112-2.jpg

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01-15-2012, 01:37 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
They might sell some tickets, but they are selling them at redicously low price compare to true hockey market. I heard of promos in florida that if you did groceries in some supermarket you got 2 free tickets for a Panthers game... How many of those sellouts you tell me about were free tickets or really low price tickets
It doesnt matter. The buildings making money through non-hockey related revenues while every efforts being made to clean up the mess left by previous management on the ice. If you can get bodies into the seats via discounts, 2 for 1's, ticket reward via the purchase of groceries, gasoline or Vodka & those people have an enjoyable experience youve' cultivated a new customer. You could put an NHL franchise in Rio and succeed if your marketings creative & the team shows up & actually competes. This whole notion of a "true hockey market" is antiquated & provincial Patof. Welcome to the 21st Century.

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01-15-2012, 01:41 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
It doesnt matter. The buildings making money through non-hockey related revenues while every efforts being made to clean up the mess left by previous management on the ice. If you can get bodies into the seats via discounts, 2 for 1's, ticket reward via the purchase of groceries, gasoline or Vodka & those people have an enjoyable experience youve' cultivated a new customer. You could put an NHL franchise in Rio and succeed if your marketings creative & the team shows up & actually competes. This whole notion of a "true hockey market" is antiquated & provincial Patof. Welcome to the 21st Century.
Non-hockey related events will keep this franchise going long term assuming the hockey team does not bleed too much money.

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01-15-2012, 02:09 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by razor ray View Post
So is my point as why move the NBA to say Tucson (which loves basketball) or to Montreal or Vancouver? Same thing with the NHL why move to Ssk or Hamilton when you could move to Seattle, Portland, Houston, etc?

I know emotion is involved in this topic and I'm not trying to offend any of our friends to the North its just more curiosity on my part.
I could see the NBA moving a team to Tuscon before Montreal or Vancouver, although I don't see any of the three as a possibility.

The reason the NHL would move a team to Ssk or Hamilton before moving to Seattle or Houston is because they could make money off Ssk and Hamilton and then move to Seattle or Houston.

I don't see any flaws in my plan, go where Hockey is wanted first, then go to places that it's not.

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01-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #55
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Um, speak for yourself dronald... the Genies' already out of the bottle. Has been since the first major wave of Expansion in 67. While I agree with your own and many others opinions that Expansion was was both ill-conceived & executed, we cant turn the clock back. The NHL is a business and in order to retain its status as the pre-eminent league & grow its revenues it was necessary. The WHL & the AHL/IHL were licking the NHL's boot heels and in order to keep them at bay, down, Expansion, take over their markets. That wasnt enough though, as witness the rise & fall of the WHA.

Now that its' done, teams in Florida, Texas, California X's 3, Arizona etc, it behooves the league to maintain, support & nurture those markets & ultimately expand even further to places like Houston etc. At the same time, its "core" market of the Northeast & Pacific Northwestern US & Canada should be shored up; teams awarded to Hamilton & Quebec City, Seattle & or Portland. Since 1980's Miracle on Ice, which inspired generations of American kids to pickup a hockey stick, the US has provided & continues to develop some unbelievable talent, some of them coming from places that only 10 years ago seemed completely improbable. This is a good thing. Why cant hockey have its cake & eat it too?...

So, you say I should speak for myself but yet you agree with me? What the NHL should have done, and what they should do is the same. Go where Hockey is wanted, then go where it is not.

Whatever happend to you? You used to be set in your ways that Hamilton would be getting a team. I've always been skeptical, but I still think we deserve one the most.

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01-15-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post

I don't see any flaws in my plan, go where Hockey is wanted first, then go to places that it's not.
Again...assuming places like Seattle or Portland wouldn't want hockey

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01-15-2012, 02:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by dronald View Post
I could see the NBA moving a team to Tuscon before Montreal or Vancouver, although I don't see any of the three as a possibility.

The reason the NHL would move a team to Ssk or Hamilton before moving to Seattle or Houston is because they could make money off Ssk and Hamilton and then move to Seattle or Houston.

I don't see any flaws in my plan, go where Hockey is wanted first, then go to places that it's not.
You are assuming that Ssk and Hamilton will make money.

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01-15-2012, 02:28 PM
  #58
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So, you say I should speak for myself but yet you agree with me? What the NHL should have done, and what they should do is the same. Go where Hockey is wanted, then go where it is not.... Whatever happend to you? You used to be set in your ways that Hamilton would be getting a team. I've always been skeptical, but I still think we deserve one the most.
I agree with you insofar as the leagues Expansion was ill conceived & hasty, that they shouldve shored up in the Northeast, Pacific Northwest, Hamilton (1990) etc to begin with, but they didnt, so lets deal with the players on the board & get them healthy & happy, from Sunrise to Denver rather than just moving the pieces around.... and no worries dronald, Im still adamant about & an advocate for the Hammer. "Derserve" has nothing to do with it. From every conceivable and completely logical measurement Hamilton is by far the greatest un-tapped market in North America. Billions left sitting on the table for over 2 decades.

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01-15-2012, 02:41 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You are assuming that Ssk and Hamilton will make money.
About as close to a guarantee as you can get.

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01-15-2012, 02:57 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Again...assuming places like Seattle or Portland wouldn't want hockey

:
I'm a half american, half canadian. My mother being from Portland, my father from Hamilton. I'm not assuming anything if i listen to my cousins.

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01-15-2012, 03:18 PM
  #61
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Vancouver and Montreal were examples as to growing the game of basketball like what the NHL is doing with hockey. Big untapped market with tons of growth vs. a small market with lots of fans.

Vancouver had a horrible owner, hardly won any games (terrible GM), and had no efforts in building the franchise and team yet had 13k per game. If Aquilini, I think we all agree is a very smart business man, has his way he will buy a NBA team and move them back to Vancouver so I guess he disagrees with you:

http://blogs.canada.com/2011/12/14/s...-to-vancouver/

So is my point as why move the NBA to say Tucson (which loves basketball) or to Montreal or Vancouver? Same thing with the NHL why move to Ssk or Hamilton when you could move to Seattle, Portland, Houston, etc?

I know emotion is involved in this topic and I'm not trying to offend any of our friends to the North its just more curiosity on my part.
I remember hearing that there was the thought of moving memphis back to vancouver because of how much they are struggling, a non traditional market needs a successful team to build a fanbase, florida hasn't had that in years and vancouver never had that for basketball(tbh toronto never has either, but it's such a big city it really doesn't matter), personally I think both are important facts, 1 long playoff run and Tampa doubled their season ticket owners(5000 to 10000) at a half decent price(for the US) Phoenix is a disaster because of where is it, it's a problem that can't be solved and the NHL knows it

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01-15-2012, 03:19 PM
  #62
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Bettman'S hockey in the south is a mistake that is slowly but surely getting corrected. Atlanta is gone, Phoenix is coming soon and i dont believe it will stop there. Owners are sick of giving the revenu sharing money to hopeless markets. There is no doubt that there are great fans in these market. Unfortunetly not enought...

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01-15-2012, 03:19 PM
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You are assuming that Ssk and Hamilton will make money.
hamilton sold out season ticket deposits stupidly quickly on only the rumour that a team might be coming, it's very obvious that it would make money, hamilton is huge, they'd charge less than the leafs, so it would be easier for a lot of people to go. Although personally I think an arena around waterloo would be the better choice but still

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01-15-2012, 03:24 PM
  #64
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The Panthers will move at some point i am pretty sure. They just wont keep on finding owners who are willing to lose a ton of money every year. I hear Carolina still havenet found someone to buy the minory shares that are for sale. As soon as Karmanos retires or die this franchise will move. Same as for the Florida owner
You Canadians can keep dream on, ain't gonna happen. Maybe in 30 years, but so could any other team.

People are seriously underestimating the southern markets and especially Florida. TV ratings aren't great, but they will continue to grow. The attendance this year has been great, and it looked to be less snowbirds than other years at the New Years game etc.

BAC is also used for tons of concerts which also benefits the Panthers and others. But you should ask someone that knows the details better than me, but Florida has no economic problems.

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01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
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Over-enthusiast article on a southern market. We're straigthening the facts.


Yes, you ignorant Canadians got the facts, and Yormark doesn't know ****. Why am I not surprised?

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01-15-2012, 03:39 PM
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Nashville worked out.
It's done damn well so far, and its management style could very well be a case study for professional sports franchises operating in uncertain markets, but they're unfortunately the exception and not the rule. Florida, Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. Not a glowing record.

You say "growing the game", a lot of people hear "entitled, ridiculous boondoggles losing tens of millions of dollars". I'm not bringing tradition or anything like that into it because that, too, is an unsupportable emotional appeal that has no place in a business discussion. I say "tradition", and a lot of people hear "entitled, whiny northerners". Works both ways.

Also, can we finally cease this urban legend that "growing the game" is a financial investment? Sure as hell hasn't been yet. How many more decades until it's finally declared as the failure it obviously is?

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01-15-2012, 03:51 PM
  #67
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It's done damn well so far, and its management style could very well be a case study for professional sports franchises operating in uncertain markets, but they're unfortunately the exception and not the rule. Florida, Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. Not a glowing record.
Florida should never be mention along with those other two teams. Disgusting. Hockey is growing in Florida for sure.

Florida has always had decent attendance even after 10 years of failure, and they make money of concerts too and is a highly growing market. That you mention us with Pheonix and Atlanta is disgusting and ignorant.

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01-15-2012, 04:19 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
BAC is also used for tons of concerts which also benefits the Panthers and others. But you should ask someone that knows the details better than me, but Florida has no economic problems.
They must be doing miracles if they make BAC profitable with 2-3 per month non-hockey related events (according to BAC event calendar).
Florida's (at least South Florida's) economy took bad downturn at 2007's real estate crash, main industry used to be selling apartments/houses to each other. Now tourism has created more jobs, low paying, though and i find it very hard for Panthers to raise their ticket prices for next season.

JOL

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01-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by matCH penalty View Post
Also, can we finally cease this urban legend that "growing the game" is a financial investment? Sure as hell hasn't been yet. How many more decades until it's finally declared as the failure it obviously is?
Well of course thats exactly how the happenstantial Expansions & Relocations were always justified. Sell on emotion & munificence, "for the growth of the game" simply a hollow slogan when in reality it was always about self dealing and money.

The leagues done absolutely nothing to "grow the game" at the amateur and entry levels in these "non-traditional" markets, as in providing financial support in a co-op with the franchises & private/public interests to build arenas for youth hockey. Working with their official sponsors like Reebok in providing equipment & gear; jointly with the NHLPA staging clinics & camps; administrative assistance with league setup's & the like.

No, they leave that up to the already challenged franchisee's to sort out on their own, with guys like Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman or Moyes, Koules or whomever barely able to finance a ham sandwich let alone dig & come up with some cash for a multi-plex in Scottsdale or Peoria. Sure there are successes in Dallas, San Jose', Anaheim & Dallas whereby the teams took that responsibility seriously enough to roll up their sleeves and setup leagues etc, however in Phoenix & Atlanta good luck finding anything that wasnt done exclusively by the players themselves without any help from ownership or the league.

Through osmosis & despite themselves, utter dereliction of duty in living up to that slogan, hockey is "growing" in them there hills, yet imagine how much further ahead of the curve it coulda been had there been an actual "plan" with resources in place to execute?. The NHL is a business, sure enough, and they should have made it their business to genuinely "grow the game" with such efforts. Its not too late to do something about it either, but dont hold your breath waiting. That would require a fundamental change in philosophies & cost the league some real money. Home grown talent for a franchise like Nashville, Florida or a Dallas, even though they go on to the CHL or NCAA is huge. Never mind all of the rest of the returns such investments would reap in perpetuity for the teams & the league...

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01-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #70
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Hockey is growing in Florida for sure ...Florida has always had decent attendance even after 10 years of failure,
What's your metric for "decent"? Even if you believe the publicly released attendance figures, sure, it hasn't been Phoenix-level. That's a pretty low bar, though. The weakness of the market is evident by the rock-bottom prices; it'd be truly impressive in a bad way if they couldn't fill the building halfway with what they charge. The constant discounting is negative, too, for a variety of reasons. It alienates people who might become STHs. That whole "club red" thing from earlier in the season sure pissed off a lot of long-time STHs, too.

This sounds like the same song as the last twenty years with little to nothing to back it up. If you're going solely by what's happened in this season, you're being unrealistic. After decades of futility, there's pent-up demand and potential bandwagoners in even the most disinterested market. Which is great, of course. More money for everyone! If you think they'll stick around if this season turns out to be an aberration, though, you don't have history on your side.

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and they make money of concerts too
I truly don't understand this ownership evangelism fad. First Buffalo with Pegula, and now you guys. Your hockey team does not make money, the owners do. Off things that are entirely unrelated to the hockey team. The fact that they make money off concerts indicates they'd make more money if they didn't have the hockey team. That's a positive thing to you? "It doesn't matter how pointless the hockey team is, the ownership group is alright eating those losses at the moment because they have a popular multi-use arena" is not a statement dripping with pride or confidence. All it says is that the current arrangement of ownership is happy icing a loser for years at a time until they have to put a little bit of effort into it to appear interested and deflect fan anger to avoid losing too much. That kind of cheesy business operation is not unique to Florida, however. Nor am I berating anyone for being happy. Hell, I wish my lazy, complacent owner felt a need to spend a few bucks to make the team successful . But don't try to pretend the situation is great, because it isn't.

Great timing, K.

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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Sell on emotion & munificence, "for the growth of the game" simply a hollow slogan when in reality it was always about self dealing and money.

The leagues done absolutely nothing to "grow the game" at the amateur and entry levels in these "non-traditional" markets.

No, they leave that up to the already challenged franchisee's to sort out on their own, with guys like Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman or Moyes, Koules or whomever barely able to finance a ham sandwich let alone dig & come up with some cash for a multi-plex in Scottsdale or Peoria.
I will not tolerate any insinuations that the NHL is an incompetent, poorly-run organization with institutional myopia. Good day sir!

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Home grown talent for a franchise like Nashville, Florida or a Dallas, even though they go on to the CHL or NCAA is huge. Never mind all of the rest of the returns such investments would reap in perpetuity for the teams & the league...
Like I've always said, the league should've started by funding a huge national major junior system in the late 80s and leveraging the areas where it found success by putting franchises there, instead of throwing darts at a map of the US below the 40th.

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01-15-2012, 05:08 PM
  #71
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They must be doing miracles if they make BAC profitable with 2-3 per month non-hockey related events (according to BAC event calendar).
Florida's (at least South Florida's) economy took bad downturn at 2007's real estate crash, main industry used to be selling apartments/houses to each other. Now tourism has created more jobs, low paying, though and i find it very hard for Panthers to raise their ticket prices for next season.

JOL
I'm talking about the team, not the state in general. I know Florida was hit hard by the economic crisis, many were. I'm just telling people that think Florida is bleeding red numbers like the Thrashers, Coyotes and Devils did/do.

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01-15-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
They might sell some tickets, but they are selling them at redicously low price compare to true hockey market. I heard of promos in florida that if you did groceries in some supermarket you got 2 free tickets for a Panthers game... How many of those sellouts you tell me about were free tickets or really low price tickets
Oh, you heard? Must be true then.

Way to not tune into two Original Six teams having dismal attendance after a poor on ice product for MUCH less time. Also ignored the other teams mentioned as well, but I'm not surprised, everyone ignores true facts when they have a stupid, ignorant agenda. "Facts" Course, I only lived there for the first ten years, attend as often as I can, am friends with everyone on the booster club...but what do I know. Please, give me more "facts"

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01-15-2012, 05:41 PM
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They must be doing miracles if they make BAC profitable with 2-3 per month non-hockey related events (according to BAC event calendar).
Florida's (at least South Florida's) economy took bad downturn at 2007's real estate crash, main industry used to be selling apartments/houses to each other. Now tourism has created more jobs, low paying, though and i find it very hard for Panthers to raise their ticket prices for next season.

JOL
According to the 2009 Year End Pollstar numbers (the most recent comprehensive list I've found), The BankAtlantic Center was the 12 busiest arena in the US - based on # of tickets sold to non-sporting events.


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01-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #74
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I will not tolerate any insinuations that the NHL is an incompetent, poorly-run organization with institutional myopia. Good day sir! ...

Like I've always said, the league should've started by funding a huge national major junior system in the late 80s and leveraging the areas where it found success by putting franchises there, instead of throwing darts at a map of the US below the 40th.
Channeling Crazy_Ike again huh?. You shoulda dropped the sarcasm emoticon & really slammed the receiver down with "Good day sir!". I pull that stuff all the time. Really quite amusing deliberately playing the protagonist, lathering up the boards from time-time huh?.

As for the last bit, that would be very expensive, as travel costs' alone would be sky high unless you did it regionally (Southwest, Southeast etc). I was thinking more along the lines of Tyke to Midget, A to AAA levels, and if you really wanna fix this busted wagon, you hold an 18yr old Draft only for players born outside of North America, Canadians & Americans signed to 'C' & 'B' Forms just like the old days (minus the indentured servitude aspects of course) so Montreal for example could grab all the best francophones, the Kings, Ducks & Sharks Californians etc. Players could choose where they want to play, teams targeting home grown locals supplemented & filled out with the top European & Russian players via a Draft.

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01-15-2012, 07:23 PM
  #75
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You Canadians can keep dream on, ain't gonna happen. Maybe in 30 years, but so could any other team.

People are seriously underestimating the southern markets and especially Florida. TV ratings aren't great, but they will continue to grow. The attendance this year has been great, and it looked to be less snowbirds than other years at the New Years game etc.

BAC is also used for tons of concerts which also benefits the Panthers and others. But you should ask someone that knows the details better than me, but Florida has no economic problems.
Florida had been trying a get them in the building with a hook them on hockey approach for years with little sucess. Perhaps it will work this time around.

Attendance should be up, despite already low ticket prices and tickets that had actually been raised in price this season season tickets were sold for half price for a day.

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Historically, the Florida Panthers have drawn poorly at their home in Sunrise, Florida. Over the last three seasons, the organization ranks 23rd out of 30 teams in average attendance per game. Predictably, that comes in three seasons in which the Panthers have missed the playoffs and have seen their points decrease in each season. Thus, the team’s brass has taken drastic measures to bring fans to the BankAtlantic Center for the upcoming campaign, its nineteenth in South Florida.

Visit the Florida Panthers homepage, and you are immediately greeted by a bright red landing page in theme with the team’s 2011-2012 marketing campaign, “We See Red.” The page announces the “One Day Special” on Wednesday, October 5 when season ticket packages will be half price. Thanks to PartyCity, one of the Panthers “pillar partners,” Panthers fans are told “You Pay Half. PartyCity Pays Half.” This is a comprehensive campaign including seats in the lower level, the Lexus Club, and the upper bowl for full season, half season, or mini package plans.

A season ticket discount of this magnitude seems shocking, but it is nothing new for the Panthers. It is a timely move by an organization that received heat earlier in the summer for raising the price of season tickets, and it will have more upside than downside. To begin with the latter, the downsides seem to be the possible unhappiness of fans that have already bought season tickets as well as the perception that the team is selling itself cheaply. Still, it is a struggling team looking to build a fan base, so this is a generally positive move.
http://thehockeywriters.com/florida-...eason-tickets/


I would also assume that this promotion from 2008 is still ongoing.

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We've seen all sorts of wacky promotions in the NHL, especially from teams that have traditionally had trouble selling tickets, but this season in Florida, they're literally giving them away.

All you need is a driver's license:
The promotion advises that: "It may be your first game, but it won't be your last." The small print goes onto say that the invitation is "good one time only" and that the program "will remain in effect until everybody in Florida experiences the excitement of a Panthers game at least once."

We'll just call it "indefinitely."

In order to get the tickets, Florida residents simply have to fill out this two-step form that involves entering your contact info and choosing which game you'd like to attend.
http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2008/10/p...-giveaway.html

I love this promotion from 2010 that appears to be aimed at a mostly female demographic.

Quote:
It's a cold day in H-E-double hockey sticks when we Floridians see our own breath in the air. If you want to feel the thrill of a chill without freezing your bank account, drop the puck on today's power-play deal: Spend $18 and whack a whopping 80% off one ticket to the Florida Panthers game against the Carolina Hurricanes on December 15 (regularly $90). Chill out in the BankAtlantic Center's lower bowl-end zone area as the Sunshine State's hockey hunks hit the ice. Root on your home team, slug a few beers, and feel the rare touch of winter. Just body check this breakaway deal soon, because it will not be going into overtime.
http://www.livingsocial.com/deals/17...hers-ticket-18


This was a popular giveaway item.

Quote:
Oy vey! Panthers fans outraged over yarmulke giveaway confusion

On Tuesday night, the Florida Panthers held what they called "the biggest Hanukkah party in South Florida" and handed out what we called "simply one of the greatest fan giveaways in recent NHL history": the official Florida Panthers yarmulke.

(It was also a night honoring the 1996 Stanley Cup Finals between the Panthers and the visiting Colorado Avalanche, but who cares about Brian Skrudland and Joe Sakic(notes) when there are yarmulkes to be had, right?)

Fans eagerly anticipated getting their hands on one of these unique keepsakes ... until they arrived at the arena and discovered the whole thing was mashugana, as the team seemingly changed the promotion overnight and limited the giveaway to a select group of single-game ticket buyers.

And some Panthers fans really, really don't think that's kosher. Florida fan Caity Kauffman offered a blow by blow of the yarmulke search on Twitter, with updates like: "At guest services hanging out with an actual Hebrew woman who is distraught about lack of yarmulkes."
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/...urn=nhl-293226

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