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Panthers president Yormak interview with Forbes

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Old
01-16-2012, 12:10 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Channeling Crazy_Ike again huh?. You shoulda dropped the sarcasm emoticon & really slammed the receiver down with "Good day sir!". I pull that stuff all the time. Really quite amusing deliberately playing the protagonist, lathering up the boards from time-time huh?.
I like to think of myself as more of the heel-from-the-WWE of the BoH board, really. But that may be overrating my significance.

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I was thinking more along the lines of Tyke to Midget, A to AAA levels, and if you really wanna fix this busted wagon, you hold an 18yr old Draft only for players born outside of North America, Canadians & Americans signed to 'C' & 'B' Forms just like the old days (minus the indentured servitude aspects of course) so Montreal for example could grab all the best francophones, the Kings, Ducks & Sharks Californians etc. Players could choose where they want to play, teams targeting home grown locals supplemented & filled out with the top European & Russian players via a Draft.
Oh god, does Fehr Time have a gun to your head?! Blink three times if you can't say . The regional protectionism thing would go over like a lead balloon, but I think the expansion franchises really should have had some form of it, along with real market development funding by the league. Instead, like you said, a jumble of incompetent penny-pinchers and the occasional Ed Snider good story when it comes to community outreach. This is getting a tad off topic though.

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01-16-2012, 12:47 AM
  #77
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It was a bad idea for the OP to post positivity, panthers, and business in one thread. Bias was formed a long time ago and some people, regardless of facts will continue to hold onto those biases.



Meanwhile, the team will continue to draft well, put a winning product on the ice, draw consistently higher attendance, gain higher tv viewer ratings, enhance the south florida community, maintain strong and committed ownership, obtain more season ticket holders, and grow one of the strongest corporate sponsorships in the league.

The panthers and their fans will continue flying under the radar so feel free to go head and keep listing your biases, keep listing how and when the team will move, keep spreading vermin about fans in south florida dont exist.

You guys do your thing and we will do ours. Thanks for the concern.

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01-16-2012, 10:00 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
It was a bad idea for the OP to post positivity, panthers, and business in one thread. Bias was formed a long time ago and some people, regardless of facts will continue to hold onto those biases.

Meanwhile, the team will continue to draft well, put a winning product on the ice, draw consistently higher attendance, gain higher tv viewer ratings, enhance the south florida community, maintain strong and committed ownership, obtain more season ticket holders, and grow one of the strongest corporate sponsorships in the league.

You guys do your thing and we will do ours. Thanks for the concern.
Good for you. People are funny that way. Its not hard to understand why many wrote the Panthers (Yotes/Bolts/Preds/Stars etc) off after years of ineptitude in the front office, on the ice and at the gate. Once an opinion like thats been formed cynicism & skepticism sets in and no matter what, difficult to budge from it. Im as guilty of it as anyone else, and I too at one time figured the Panthers were absolute goners'.

Over the past 2.5yrs or so Ive revised that opinion as a result of the franchises changes in ownership & personnel, and believe their well on their way to a complete resurrection. A model that could easily be followed by Phoenix and or anywhere else thats either seriously challenged or simply wishes to turn on the taps' in securing new revenue streams through creative marketing & sponsorship sales, non HR's and full-on sports & entertainment destination development (casinos).

Failure is not an option. You guys'll be just fine.

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01-16-2012, 12:30 PM
  #79
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Well of course thats exactly how the happenstantial Expansions & Relocations were always justified. Sell on emotion & munificence, "for the growth of the game" simply a hollow slogan when in reality it was always about self dealing and money.

The leagues done absolutely nothing to "grow the game" at the amateur and entry levels in these "non-traditional" markets, as in providing financial support in a co-op with the franchises & private/public interests to build arenas for youth hockey. Working with their official sponsors like Reebok in providing equipment & gear; jointly with the NHLPA staging clinics & camps; administrative assistance with league setup's & the like.

No, they leave that up to the already challenged franchisee's to sort out on their own, with guys like Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman or Moyes, Koules or whomever barely able to finance a ham sandwich let alone dig & come up with some cash for a multi-plex in Scottsdale or Peoria. Sure there are successes in Dallas, San Jose', Anaheim & Dallas whereby the teams took that responsibility seriously enough to roll up their sleeves and setup leagues etc, however in Phoenix & Atlanta good luck finding anything that wasnt done exclusively by the players themselves without any help from ownership or the league.

Through osmosis & despite themselves, utter dereliction of duty in living up to that slogan, hockey is "growing" in them there hills, yet imagine how much further ahead of the curve it coulda been had there been an actual "plan" with resources in place to execute?. The NHL is a business, sure enough, and they should have made it their business to genuinely "grow the game" with such efforts. Its not too late to do something about it either, but dont hold your breath waiting. That would require a fundamental change in philosophies & cost the league some real money. Home grown talent for a franchise like Nashville, Florida or a Dallas, even though they go on to the CHL or NCAA is huge. Never mind all of the rest of the returns such investments would reap in perpetuity for the teams & the league...
Soothing post Killion. I obviously feel very much the same way. I would hope that for whichever city that is considered as a future destination, the NHL would entertain such a notion.
With this line of thinking, how are you able to escape the wrath and venom of your Canadian friends? I find that the Canadian viewpoint about hockey outside Canadian borders is, well, just no.

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01-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
It was a bad idea for the OP to post positivity, panthers, and business in one thread. Bias was formed a long time ago and some people, regardless of facts will continue to hold onto those biases.



Meanwhile, the team will continue to draft well, put a winning product on the ice, draw consistently higher attendance, gain higher tv viewer ratings, enhance the south florida community, maintain strong and committed ownership, obtain more season ticket holders, and grow one of the strongest corporate sponsorships in the league.

The panthers and their fans will continue flying under the radar so feel free to go head and keep listing your biases, keep listing how and when the team will move, keep spreading vermin about fans in south florida dont exist.

You guys do your thing and we will do ours. Thanks for the concern.
draft well... lol

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01-16-2012, 01:26 PM
  #81
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Soothing post Killion. I obviously feel very much the same way. I would hope that for whichever city that is considered as a future destination, the NHL would entertain such a notion. With this line of thinking, how are you able to escape the wrath and venom of your Canadian friends? I find that the Canadian viewpoint about hockey outside Canadian borders is, well, just no.
The vocal minority up here, the relocationists & xenophobes fear my wrath far more than I fear their mewling's I can assure you. They just need to get out more.

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01-16-2012, 01:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
The vocal minority up here, the relocationists & xenophobes fear my wrath far more than I fear their mewling's I can assure you. They just need to get out more.
Your point about growing hockey "in them thair hills" reminds me of the question-is the NHL trying to grow "the game" or "NHL Hockey"?

The argument has been made ad nauseum about viablity of markets for NHL teams, but yet those same markets seem to showing growing interest in the game. I've read about places like Florida, Carolina, and other "southern" states where the game has taken off on local levels, and the growth of "The sport" is proceeding well. Obviously the idea is to grow the sport so people WILL tune in NHL hockey more, and as has been debated again and again, that tuning is may be happening at different rates.

As far as fearing your wrath, I think that has more to do with that Winchester 30.06 you have poked away in your closet behind the hockey sticks

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01-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #83
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The argument has been made ad nauseum about viablity of markets for NHL teams, but yet those same markets seem to showing growing interest in the game. I've read about places like Florida, Carolina, and other "southern" states where the game has taken off on local levels, and the growth of "The sport" is proceeding well.
Ya, its' pretty amazing. Despite themselves, the NHL somehow manages to squeak through it all, taking more credit than they should when places like Nashville manage to pull themselves out of the ditch the league forced them into in the first place.

Its just common sense to include in any franchise sale, be it a Car Delaership or a team that a co-op fund be established for the purposes of marketing & advertising or in the case of a sport like hockey, financial & admin assistance at the amateur/entry levels. Building facilities, outreach programs, clinics, road/synthetic & ice leagues set-up in conjunction with the municipalities
and community sports organizations.

Its not like hockey is some bizarre sport that people dont get in the South or Southwest. Huge numbers of transplants from the Northeast & Midwest who grew up with it. You dont have to have played the sport as a kid to be a fan but tell ya what, for the purposes of sustainability & just general popularity it sure helps. Imagine the league in 10 or 20yrs when some of the elite athletes who opted for hockey instead of football or basketball from places like Tennessee, Florida, Texas & Arizona take to the ice and hopefully in their hometowns colors?...

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01-16-2012, 02:22 PM
  #84
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draft well... lol
Kulikov, gudbranson, huberdeau, howden, bjustad, rau, shore, grimaldi, and markstrom...yes continue to draft well.

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01-16-2012, 04:20 PM
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I'm a half american, half canadian. My mother being from Portland, my father from Hamilton. I'm not assuming anything if i listen to my cousins.
lol... you're assuming that your cousins' interests are representative of Portland metropolitan area's interests. Pretty huge assumption to make off of a very small sample (even if you're in a large family with dozens of cousins).

Pretty hilarious. I mean, I think Hamilton could hypothetically succeed as an NHL market, but I think Quebec City, Houston and Seattle should all get a team before Hamilton does.

At the end of the day, Hamilton is just a glorified suburb of Toronto. Cheer for the Leafs - or the Wings or Sabres if you can't put aside that inferiority complex that many people in Hamilton have with regards to Toronto.

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01-16-2012, 04:25 PM
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Ya, its' pretty amazing. Despite themselves, the NHL somehow manages to squeak through it all, taking more credit than they should when places like Nashville manage to pull themselves out of the ditch the league forced them into in the first place.

Its just common sense to include in any franchise sale, be it a Car Delaership or a team that a co-op fund be established for the purposes of marketing & advertising or in the case of a sport like hockey, financial & admin assistance at the amateur/entry levels. Building facilities, outreach programs, clinics, road/synthetic & ice leagues set-up in conjunction with the municipalities
and community sports organizations.


Its not like hockey is some bizarre sport that people dont get in the South or Southwest. Huge numbers of transplants from the Northeast & Midwest who grew up with it. You dont have to have played the sport as a kid to be a fan but tell ya what, for the purposes of sustainability & just general popularity it sure helps. Imagine the league in 10 or 20yrs when some of the elite athletes who opted for hockey instead of football or basketball from places like Tennessee, Florida, Texas & Arizona take to the ice and hopefully in their hometowns colors?...
- With regard to the bolded part, you are 100% correct. Why doesn't the league do this? It seems as though they offer no assistance of the kind you mention. This is why stupid owners like the ones in Atlanta end up failing.

- And yes, hockey is growing in the States. Every World Juniors / Olympics / NHL Draft these days you are seeing more and more players coming from non-traditional states. Before it used to be mainly the Northeast and upper Midwest, now you see Texas, California and several other states. Great stuff.

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01-16-2012, 04:30 PM
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With this line of thinking, how are you able to escape the wrath and venom of your Canadian friends? I find that the Canadian viewpoint about hockey outside Canadian borders is, well, just no.
Hey, please don't characterize all of us as insular hockey elitists / chauvinists. I don't associate myself with that "HOCKEY IS OUR GAME" vocal minority. I love watching new markets flourish.

It's especially ironic to see that kind of signage in Vancouver where pond hockey could never be supported; unlike, say, the New England area or Minnesota or Chicago.

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01-16-2012, 04:58 PM
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I find that the Canadian viewpoint about hockey outside Canadian borders is, well, just no.
Well, the NHL has been putting teams in southern markets since 1924 with the addition of the Boston Bruins.

It's not the expansion of the league that is the problem, its the perception that the league is ignoring viable Canadian markets for more quixotic ones.

We can argue (and indeed have argued) whether that perception is justified or not.

But in the end, Canadians feel they are underserved; Americans argue they are not. With only 30 teams to go around, it's easy for bad feelings to be stoked. A few hundred loudmouths on the internet amplifies everything further.

Back to the article: I like reading about ownership groups that seems to have their act together. It's much easier to accept successful franchises than bad ones, no matter the location

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01-16-2012, 05:18 PM
  #89
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- With regard to the bolded part, you are 100% correct. Why doesn't the league do this?
Prior to the introduction of the Universal Draft in 1963 most of the 06 teams did in fact do just that, however, their wasnt a whole bunch of benevolence to their doing so, having more to do with getting players names on B/C or D Forms at a young age, the first step in what was basically indentured servitude. None the less, the system did have its benefits, whereby Montreal for example was able to secure a steady stream of star francophones post WW2 when in fact that franchise was damn close to folding in the late 30's & early 40's. The Leafs of course building from Toronto proper through St.Mikes & the Marlies, players coming from the West, Northern Ontario & the city itself (Brewer & Baun for eg).

Ideally, Id actually like to see a return to this system though with modern day sensibilities & the players rights to choose whether they sign with whomever wherever at 18 without a Draft at all for North American born players (while retaining the Draft exclusively for European born players). If a guy like Ryan Kessler for example had had a choice, wouldnt he have opted to sign with Detroit or Columbus?. Maybe. Maybe not. Not a whole ton of players are still in the NHL past 27 or 30, their best years spent in foreign climes when they could be playing in their home state, inspiring another generation on a regular basis.

Toronto & Montrel were able to really capitalize on the "HomeTown Hero" ploys early on; Quebec, Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton & Vancouver to lesser extents post expansion, WHA Amalgamation etc. Cultivating talent in places like Tennessee & Texas should be a shared responsibility between the NHL & the franchisee, part of an overall plan. Sure, the past is a different country & they do things differently back there, but they did get, in part, the whole issue of amateur sponsorship packaging partially right.

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Hey, please don't characterize all of us as insular hockey elitists / chauvinists. I don't associate myself with that "HOCKEY IS OUR GAME" vocal minority. I love watching new markets flourish.
Ditto. Got my eye on that one. Gave em' a facewash earlier...
Next time Im hauling out one of those big ol' bars of Sunlight.

Caked in dead bugs.

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01-16-2012, 05:51 PM
  #90
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lol... you're assuming that your cousins' interests are representative of Portland metropolitan area's interests. Pretty huge assumption to make off of a very small sample (even if you're in a large family with dozens of cousins).

Pretty hilarious. I mean, I think Hamilton could hypothetically succeed as an NHL market, but I think Quebec City, Houston and Seattle should all get a team before Hamilton does.

At the end of the day, Hamilton is just a glorified suburb of Toronto. Cheer for the Leafs - or the Wings or Sabres if you can't put aside that inferiority complex that many people in Hamilton have with regards to Toronto.

Your only good point is the one about my cousins. Indeed, when I go to Portland, Scottsdale, North Carolina, Florida, etc and ask their their thoughts on Hockey, when 10/10people and their friends couldn't give a damn it's not including the hundreds of thousands of others who live in that city. I really am just assuming that people in the places you named do not care as much about Hockey as those in Hamilton based on my constant discussions with different Americans on their opinions of Hockey.

As for your final paragraph the only thing I can say to that is, "wtf are you talking about?" Hamilton is a city outside of Toronto with alot of Leaf fans (myself included) who can't afford Leaf tickets. No inferiority complex here.

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01-16-2012, 09:34 PM
  #91
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Your only good point is the one about my cousins. Indeed, when I go to Portland, Scottsdale, North Carolina, Florida, etc and ask their their thoughts on Hockey, when 10/10people and their friends couldn't give a damn it's not including the hundreds of thousands of others who live in that city. I really am just assuming that people in the places you named do not care as much about Hockey as those in Hamilton based on my constant discussions with different Americans on their opinions of Hockey.

It's always good for a country to have an "American Expert". I actually met an American Expert once in Moscow when visiting my daughter some years ago. You should know that anecdotal evidence, be it family, friends, strangers or fellow tourists, is the weakest type of evidence. 10/10 people, even 1000/1000 people cannot be considered a relevant sample from which to make any projection in a country as populous and varied as the United States.

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01-16-2012, 09:53 PM
  #92
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Well of course thats exactly how the happenstantial Expansions & Relocations were always justified. Sell on emotion & munificence, "for the growth of the game" simply a hollow slogan when in reality it was always about self dealing and money.

The leagues done absolutely nothing to "grow the game" at the amateur and entry levels in these "non-traditional" markets, as in providing financial support in a co-op with the franchises & private/public interests to build arenas for youth hockey. Working with their official sponsors like Reebok in providing equipment & gear; jointly with the NHLPA staging clinics & camps; administrative assistance with league setup's & the like.

No, they leave that up to the already challenged franchisee's to sort out on their own, with guys like Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman or Moyes, Koules or whomever barely able to finance a ham sandwich let alone dig & come up with some cash for a multi-plex in Scottsdale or Peoria. Sure there are successes in Dallas, San Jose', Anaheim & Dallas whereby the teams took that responsibility seriously enough to roll up their sleeves and setup leagues etc, however in Phoenix & Atlanta good luck finding anything that wasnt done exclusively by the players themselves without any help from ownership or the league.

Through osmosis & despite themselves, utter dereliction of duty in living up to that slogan, hockey is "growing" in them there hills, yet imagine how much further ahead of the curve it coulda been had there been an actual "plan" with resources in place to execute?. The NHL is a business, sure enough, and they should have made it their business to genuinely "grow the game" with such efforts. Its not too late to do something about it either, but dont hold your breath waiting. That would require a fundamental change in philosophies & cost the league some real money. Home grown talent for a franchise like Nashville, Florida or a Dallas, even though they go on to the CHL or NCAA is huge. Never mind all of the rest of the returns such investments would reap in perpetuity for the teams & the league...

yeah, or they could stop trying to force feed a sport to people who clearly have no interest in it.

if I were chipman, katz or melnyk, i wouldn't want to spend a red cent of my own money on youth hockey in florida....what would they gain from that?

this supposed growth of the sport should be put into perspective....there are 11000 registered hockey players in texas...a state with almost the population of canada and 600 000 players.

there is nothing wrong with playing in cities that like hockey and pulling up stake wherever they don't......its a business.....not a charity.

i always laugh when i read on this board the excuse that 'bad ownership' is at fault for the disinterested southern teams....that is a euphemism for losing...well, half the teams are going to lose 100% of the time, so you cant rely on winning as a long term business strategy.

im quite certain that if the NBA located half its franchises in canada played in front of thousands of empty seats every night, had tv ratings similar to infomercials and lost money hand over fist, americans would have the same attitude...i doubt they would be rallying to spend money on amateur basketball in canada.


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01-16-2012, 10:06 PM
  #93
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with some of the posts here i almost wonder if its better to have two different leagues one in canada and one in the US.

Works for football?

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01-16-2012, 10:17 PM
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It's always good for a country to have an "American Expert". I actually met an American Expert once in Moscow when visiting my daughter some years ago. You should know that anecdotal evidence, be it family, friends, strangers or fellow tourists, is the weakest type of evidence. 10/10 people, even 1000/1000 people cannot be considered a relevant sample from which to make any projection in a country as populous and varied as the United States.



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this supposed growth of the sport should be put into perspective....there are 11000 registered hockey players in texas...a state with almost the population of canada and 600 000 players.
What about 11,000/ 25,000,000?

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01-16-2012, 10:17 PM
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with some of the posts here i almost wonder if its better to have two different leagues one in canada and one in the US.

Works for football?
One of the leagues might not do too well. Seems like the teams in one of the countries is generating a disproportionate amount of the revenues.

I think most hockey fans love a two country league but many have issues with franchises that can't hold their own.

Good to see Florida in the very, very early stages of turning things around.


Last edited by blues10: 01-16-2012 at 10:19 PM. Reason: sp.
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01-16-2012, 10:27 PM
  #96
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One of the leagues might not do too well. Seems like the teams in one of the countries is generating a disproportionate amount of the revenues.

I think most hockey fans love a two country league but many have issues with franchises that can't hold their own.

Good to see Florida in the very, very early stages of turning things around.
Up until the bush administration, you would be upset if i told you which one of the two countries was generating the disproportionate amount of the revenues.

The reason the panthers are here in the first place.

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01-16-2012, 10:45 PM
  #97
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i always laugh when i read on this board the excuse that 'bad ownership' is at fault for the disinterested southern teams....
Really?. Then I guess I dont get the joke because I didnt find anything funny about the manner in which Len Barrie & Oren Koules operated in Tampa. Wasnt' even remotely amused with Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman & Moyes in Phoenix. Hicks in Dallas or ASG in Atlanta. The lost decade in Sunrise. In fact quite the contrary. I dont generally laugh at accident scenes, not unless Ive caused them... deliberately.

...as for the rest of your post peter?.

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01-17-2012, 04:25 PM
  #98
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this thread is filled with absolutely ridiculous trolling by people like patofqc, but you can expect nothing else i guess.... the entire thread is filled with ignorance and stupidity.

the reality of THIS situation is the panthers are finding success. i dont give a rats ass about phoenix, or atlanta, or any other southern market. just because those teams did not/may not find success doesn't group the panthers in with them just because they play in the south. that's like saying montreals a terrible hockey market because the senators sometimes struggle to sellout. idiotic logic.

florida has gone 10+ years without a playoff game. theres only a handful of franchises out there that would continue to draw well after going through that type of play and you could probably count them on one hand.

chicago was drawing MUCH worse when they were at rock bottom. so was boston, so was washington. would you question those cities as hockey markets? no, you wouldn't. they are drawing well now that they have success, but so did florida - or do you all forget the stretch of 50+ straight sellouts we had after we made it to the finals?

after a 10 year span of ridiculously bad hockey, florida is having a little taste of success right now (emphasis on LITTLE, we havent even made the playoffs yet and are FAR from a lock) and our numbers in ALL AREAS are already up DRASTICALLY. another crowd of over 19,000 last night.
but yep, you northern elitists are right, move 'em.

clowns like patofqc can cling on to their false hopes all they want, reality is reality and the facts are there for anyone to see.

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01-17-2012, 04:49 PM
  #99
Coramoor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthersflames1 View Post
Kulikov, gudbranson, huberdeau, howden, bjustad, rau, shore, grimaldi, and markstrom...yes continue to draft well.
yes the last 2-3 years have been really good on prospects, what happened the other 12?

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01-17-2012, 04:50 PM
  #100
Coramoor
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
this thread is filled with absolutely ridiculous trolling by people like patofqc, but you can expect nothing else i guess.... the entire thread is filled with ignorance and stupidity.

the reality of THIS situation is the panthers are finding success. i dont give a rats ass about phoenix, or atlanta, or any other southern market. just because those teams did not/may not find success doesn't group the panthers in with them just because they play in the south. that's like saying montreals a terrible hockey market because the senators sometimes struggle to sellout. idiotic logic.

florida has gone 10+ years without a playoff game. theres only a handful of franchises out there that would continue to draw well after going through that type of play and you could probably count them on one hand.

chicago was drawing MUCH worse when they were at rock bottom. so was boston, so was washington. would you question those cities as hockey markets? no, you wouldn't. they are drawing well now that they have success, but so did florida - or do you all forget the stretch of 50+ straight sellouts we had after we made it to the finals?

after a 10 year span of ridiculously bad hockey, florida is having a little taste of success right now (emphasis on LITTLE, we havent even made the playoffs yet and are FAR from a lock) and our numbers in ALL AREAS are already up DRASTICALLY. another crowd of over 19,000 last night.
but yep, you northern elitists are right, move 'em.

clowns like patofqc can cling on to their false hopes all they want, reality is reality and the facts are there for anyone to see.
the fact of the matter is, when tickets cost almost nothing, the numbers in the arena don't matter, and when the television draw is nothing, that doesn't help

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